nailzer
New member
Cured or not after my car was baked it was waxed at the dealership. I never noticed any problems with the paint.
ONR on brand new paint job
- Thread starter efnfast
- Start date
Anthony O.
New member
How is it that a flimsy layer of wax can hamper, block or impede paint gassing out yet shooting clear coat (which is highly crosslinked) will not hamper, block or impede base coat paint from flashing off?
It would seem to me that if you can spray clear over base coat and all is good then a mere wax should have no ill effect either. What also of wet on wet sprays?
To address the op.....ONR is perfectly safe for fresh paint jobs.
Anthony
It would seem to me that if you can spray clear over base coat and all is good then a mere wax should have no ill effect either. What also of wet on wet sprays?
To address the op.....ONR is perfectly safe for fresh paint jobs.
Anthony
why is there a need for paint to cure/dry before waxing/polishing anyway? is there a technical need for this? a beauty need? or is it a business need?
i don't really see the reason why you HAVE to wait certain time before polishing or waxing.
can anyone PLEASE enlighten me on this need?
i don't really see the reason why you HAVE to wait certain time before polishing or waxing.
can anyone PLEASE enlighten me on this need?
Refinishes can take up to a year to fully cure. It's not a need as manufacturers
and shops would like it to cure faster. It's just the nature of paint.
To simplify, paint (bondo too) has 3 components (much more really):
1. Solids - clear or pigment/color
2. Binders/resins - it's the "glue" that makes it all stick
3. solvents - carrier or transfer medium for the above
A lot of the solvent escapes (into the air) during the application.
And while the paint cures, some of it has to escape slowly
through 1 and 2. Kinda like a cup of wet sand left out in the sun
or water spots on you car.
and shops would like it to cure faster. It's just the nature of paint.
To simplify, paint (bondo too) has 3 components (much more really):
1. Solids - clear or pigment/color
2. Binders/resins - it's the "glue" that makes it all stick
3. solvents - carrier or transfer medium for the above
A lot of the solvent escapes (into the air) during the application.
And while the paint cures, some of it has to escape slowly
through 1 and 2. Kinda like a cup of wet sand left out in the sun
or water spots on you car.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Anthony Orosco said:
Isn't it the *clearcoat* that has to be in direct/unimpeded contact with the air? As in, it's the clear that's doing the curing that we're concerned with?
Hey, I'm not expert and I'll admit my habit of waiting might be erring on the side of caution :nixweiss But the downside of waxinng/sealing too soon is simply unacceptable to me so it seems like a case of "why not wait?", at least for me. If I were to prove myself right (i.e., if the paint didn't get as hard as I wanted), I'd have to have it reshot...and going back months later and saying "hey, I waxed this despite our discussion and it never got hard. How about a redo?" isn't an option for me; I want the body/paint work done once and done right.
jackson said:
For *me* it's primarily about the repaint curing as hard as possible (given the paint and how it was mixed). I like my paint *HARD* and I don't want repaints turning out softer than they might've been just because I interfered with the outgassing.
I've noticed *many* times how a repainted area gradually hardens over a period of time (often months). It's not a subtle diff *for me*; I have to use very different products to correct paint at different points in the curing process.
But honestly, I always wonder just how often anybody would notice any difference in hardness anyhow. Yeah, some people here would, but the average person would never have a clue.
Even a lot of people here might not notice subtle differences. In which case, sure, it's a "who cares?" issue.
On the subject of catastrophic failure from waxing/etc. too soon, there was somebody on a bodywork/paint forum (that David Fermani directed me to) who said it happened to him, and Mod there said "yeah, it can happen" but the various arguments must not've seemed all that persuasive as David Fermani doesn't seem to be in the "gotta wait" camp.
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
I should re-paint my test hood, give it like 72hrs cure time and then coat it with a few different waxes and sealants. Maybe keep some areas left alone too. 
Good idea! I'll ASSUme it's black? If so...
1. 3-4 coats with 15-20 minutes flash time @ around 75+ degrees. Slow reducer.
2. Let the base flash off for at least 6 hours before clearing. But within 24 hours.
3. 3-4 coats of clear with 15-20 minutes flash time. Slow reducer.
It's very simple.
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
Flashtime said:
It is black right now. My old man has been doing body work for 40 years now so I'll just let him paint it. He is coming over next week to paint the trim pieces on my girls RL. I'll see if he has enough paint mixed up to do the hood too.
That sounds good RaskyR1!
If it wouldn't be much trouble, can ya tell what materials he be using?
The temps, # of coats, gun and flash times too?
I've done a few trim pieces on Acuras myself. Very easy; sand complete, BullDog adhesion promoter, urethane prime and *bc/cc.
If he's taking them off, there are 4-5 clips that may need to be replaced as
they can break off easy.
bc/cc = Basecoat/Clearcoat (for all you acronym lovers)
If it wouldn't be much trouble, can ya tell what materials he be using?
The temps, # of coats, gun and flash times too?
I've done a few trim pieces on Acuras myself. Very easy; sand complete, BullDog adhesion promoter, urethane prime and *bc/cc.
If he's taking them off, there are 4-5 clips that may need to be replaced as
they can break off easy.
bc/cc = Basecoat/Clearcoat (for all you acronym lovers)
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Accumulator said:
I wouldn't say the failure has to be catastrophic in any way. I just don't like passing on blanket statements about something I'm not real sure about. The thing that erks me is that there's so much misinformation based on nothing more than theory. I'm in 4-5 different body shops every day and I've gotten mixed views on this subject from BS Managers, Painters and Paint Reps who all think they know something special. Some say no need to wait, wait 30 days, wait 60, 90. I know 1 body shop that waxes every car that goes through their shop with Mother's and they claim have never had 1 come back from doing so. Where's the method behind this madness? I don't believe that paint is totally cured for many days after application, but I'm not sure that if you sealed if there *would* be a problem. Could there be? Yes. Anything is possible and it probably isn't worth the risk to find out on my own cars, but I'd like to do a myth buster test and see what happens on a scrap panel really.
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
Flashtime said:
Will do.
I know they are using BASF at the shop he works for now. We had the car in for hail damage and obviously they didn't need to repaint the moldings, though they were removed prior to paint and are still off the car now. He had them save some paint so he could paint them for me at home. They were pretty banged up from *** holes at her work banging into them.
Doing a full wet sand on the RL soon too.
Accumulator
Well-known member
David Fermani said:
Heh heh, yeah...I've been *sorta* moderating my stance on this just a bit for the same reason, at least to the extent of saying how I might be erring on the side of caution.
I *would* be good for somebody to play Myth Buster, if we could somehow get the variables sorted out.
RaskyR1 said:I should re-paint my test hood, give it like 72hrs cure time and then coat it with a few different waxes and sealants. Maybe keep some areas left alone too.
That'd be a fun project :2thumbs:
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RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
Accumulator said:
Good call.
I can do this test but if you guys want to add in any thing special please feel free.
-Do we want to wet sand it smooth after painting?
-Leave it kept indoors under controled temp, or left outside were it will be cold soon?
-Should I wash often if left outside?
-Any requests for specific waxes/sealants to be used? (I have several)
Accumulator
Well-known member
Some sorta random thoughts follow:
I'd pick a paint/mix that'll get *very* hard by the end of the curing period, that way any compromise in hardness will be easy to discern; it'll either be very hard or it won't.
Regarding temperatures, won't that be a variable *do some degree* with regard to the curing? What're the general conditions in your area? I don't think this is a biggie as everything'll even out eventually (by the end of the curing/outgassing period) anyhow, but it might affect how long that period is.
Washing would introduce another variable as it might wash off/compromise some LSP before it's had a change to affect/not the fresh paint. I'd try to keep the panel from being exposed to the elements/getting dirty for the same reason.
As for which products, I'd go with KSG (multiple layers), FK1000P, and maybe Ultima and/or Zaino for the sealants. Some "heavy" wax like #16 or Blitz, a "beauty wax" like Souveran, and some hybrid like 476S/845 from Collinite for the waxes. Then maybe something like OCW or AW for a spray-on. (I'm trying to think of products that'd be representative of different LSPs and also ones that are commonly used by Autopians).
I'd pick a paint/mix that'll get *very* hard by the end of the curing period, that way any compromise in hardness will be easy to discern; it'll either be very hard or it won't.
Regarding temperatures, won't that be a variable *do some degree* with regard to the curing? What're the general conditions in your area? I don't think this is a biggie as everything'll even out eventually (by the end of the curing/outgassing period) anyhow, but it might affect how long that period is.
Washing would introduce another variable as it might wash off/compromise some LSP before it's had a change to affect/not the fresh paint. I'd try to keep the panel from being exposed to the elements/getting dirty for the same reason.
As for which products, I'd go with KSG (multiple layers), FK1000P, and maybe Ultima and/or Zaino for the sealants. Some "heavy" wax like #16 or Blitz, a "beauty wax" like Souveran, and some hybrid like 476S/845 from Collinite for the waxes. Then maybe something like OCW or AW for a spray-on. (I'm trying to think of products that'd be representative of different LSPs and also ones that are commonly used by Autopians).
Most production clears (low end too) do dry hard. Like plastics (thermo/thermoset),
there basically two types of clears; hard/production and softer/custom types.
Lots of variations of course... Knowing what's used (and how), we can read the
tech sheet for it. Generally, 30-90 days (there abouts) is recommended before
applying wax/sealants. Manufacturers tend to play it safe, so, if it's 30 days,
then 15 might be fine...
Anyhow, regardless of what's used, we can assume it was done by the "books."
Leaving at least one portion open can be telling. Also, completely masking over
a section (clear film) sounds interesting too.
there basically two types of clears; hard/production and softer/custom types.
Lots of variations of course... Knowing what's used (and how), we can read the
tech sheet for it. Generally, 30-90 days (there abouts) is recommended before
applying wax/sealants. Manufacturers tend to play it safe, so, if it's 30 days,
then 15 might be fine...
Anyhow, regardless of what's used, we can assume it was done by the "books."
Leaving at least one portion open can be telling. Also, completely masking over
a section (clear film) sounds interesting too.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Flashtime said:
IIRC 3M says to wait for PPF too, and some PPFs aren't recommended for repaints period.