ONR 1, me 0

[snowskate]

on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being just covered in dirt/salt/etc from a New England winter, at what point would you not want to use ONR?

I can understand how ONR works and that it works well, but, like other people here I feel a little wary about taking a MF washcloth well soaked to a dry dirty panel.

I have ONR shipping to me tomorrow. I think I'll use it up to a 4 out of 10 in terms of dirtiness if I have to.

 

[SuperBee364]

on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being just covered in dirt/salt/etc from a New England winter, at what point would you not want to use ONR?

I can understand how ONR works and that it works well, but, like other people here I feel a little wary about taking a MF washcloth well soaked to a dry dirty panel.

I have ONR shipping to me tomorrow. I think I'll use it up to a 4 out of 10 in terms of dirtiness if I have to.

That sounds like a very reasonable level. Man, I wish the search feature was more friendly... you wouldn't believe how dirty some of the vehicles have been that were washed without marring using ONR. I never would have believed in this stuff if it wasn't for some of the pictures posted. Scottwax had some of a truck that was *dirty*. He used ONR exclusively to wash it over an extended period of time, and there was almost no marring at all. And what marring there was couldn't be directly attributed to the ONR as it was a work truck.

 

[wannafbody]

I will definitely say that marring is possible with no rinse washes. I've used QEW and noticed some. It may be a combo of factors. It may be that I didn't use enough fresh MFs to wipe down. How many do you guys use? It may be that I have much more airborne grit in my area than most others deal with.

 

[Accumulator]

..I was afraid the "did you notice any marring from your ONR washes?" question would eventually come up. I've been avoiding it on purpose to prevent a possible flame war. I've also noticed that there's a famous Autopian here that also seems to avoid/sidestep/whistle innocently whenever serious ONR questions come up. He shall remain nameless, but he tends to accumulate stuff.



The answer is yes. I have noticed some marring from ONR washes.....

[DISCLAIMER: There are people who can do things that I can't do (and vice-versa ) and I am in *NO WAY* claiming that ONR/QEW doesn't work great for many people. I believe that people should use what works *for them*.]



Unless the vehicle is in basically already-clean condition, I simply cannot reliably wash with ONR/QEW without instilling at least very light marring. It might be so light as to be invisible under normal lighting conditions, but it's there if I *really* look for it.



This doesn't usually happen with my labor/water-intensive foamgun-centric washes. If I wash with the foamgun, even a *nasty-filthy* vehicle usually comes clean with no marring, so I stick with that method. (Note repeated use of the qualifier "usually" )



I *do* use *and LIKE* ONR/QEW for some jobs, but not for what I consider "regular washes". I see no reason to accept an increased risk of marring when I know I can avoid it with another method.



Marring, and/or the thin paint that results if you correct it, is forever. So I simply won't take unnecessary chances (well, now that I've sold the Blazer ).

 

[Glossy McGlosserton]

Our water restrictions have now been relaxed, and I can do a "real" wash again. But that's the situation when I think the rinseless washes are fantastic: when water is precious.

 

[Accumulator]

... It may be that I didn't use enough fresh MFs to wipe down. How many do you guys use?

I've used a pretty extreme number..as in, never touched the vehicle with a visibly soiled one (!) which added up to a huge pile of 'em by the time I finished. IIRC I once used my whole collection of Monster Fluffies on just the hood, then all my MF mitts on the other horizontal surfaces and then my PakShak Ultra-Plushes on the sides. IMO more is better, safety-wise, but then you'll go through a lot more wash mix (besides all the MFs). I know, overkill...but then I wanted to try everything I could to work out the variables within my control.

 

[BlackElantraGT]

I *do* use *and LIKE* ONR/QEW for some jobs, but not for what I consider "regular washes". I see no reason to accept an increased risk of marring when I know I can avoid it with another method.

I have to agree 100% with Accumulator here. For me, rinseless washes have their place but they are not a substitute for a traditional wash. I've used the analogy that it's like taking a shower vs. doing a quick wipe-down (cat bath). When time's running short or you're unable to take a shower for whatever reasons, you can get away with a cat bath. But eventually you will need to take a real shower if you actually want to be fully clean. In the case of washing a car, a hose and water pressure can get into many nooks and crannies of your car that you just can't get to by wiping down the panels.



I think if you truly want to have mar-free washes, you'd have to have a completely 100% touchless wash AND dry (which IMO your car won't come out completely clean without some form of agitation). From my experience, I think the marring more often than not comes from the drying process. And in the case of ONR, people somehow think that the dirt/grit magically is removed by 1 or 2 swipes of a microfiber towel/sponge/mitt/etc. While a majority of that dirt has transferred onto your wash media, there's still usually a little bit left from whatever didn't transfer over. And now you're wiping it dry when it's not 100% dirt free? The same thing can be said about a traditional wash, but at least you rinse first in a traditional wash.

 

[SuperBee364]

That makes alot of sense, BlackElantraGT....Especially the drying process. I was using grout sponges for my ONR cat baths until I noticed some brake dust still clinging to the bottom of a door panel after using an ONR soaked grout sponge on it. I tried multiple times to get the dust to cling to the sponge, but it seemed like I just couldn't get the last bits off the door and on the sponge. I swapped out to an MF towel, redid the panel a few times, and couldn't see any brake dust residue. I've been back to using MF towels for ONR ever since. Wiping a dry MF over that abrasive brake dust during the drying process... oy. I'm not bashing grout sponges at all, btw, my car just has a brake dust problem. The main point is what you were saying... making sure the finish is completely clean before drying, no matter what media you're using.



You and Accumulator really have me rethinking my ONR process...

 

[SuperBee364]

Our water restrictions have now been relaxed, and I can do a "real" wash again. But that's the situation when I think the rinseless washes are fantastic: when water is precious.

That's good to hear... Glad you guys finally got some rain.

 

[imported_Denzil]

I actually do a presoak now with ONR and a chemical sprayer. Then I go over the car with ONR as usual. Presoaking really helps the entire ONR process even though it takes a few more minutes to spray everything down.

 

[Accumulator]

You and Accumulator really have me rethinking my ONR process...

Well...if it's working to your satisfaction I sure wouldn't give any thought to my two cents



But OTOH...you can be *SO* off-the-scale with regard to gentle washing (and you oughta know that *that* is a real compliment coming from me ) that I get true cognitive dissonance when I think of you doing ONR washes :think: With all due modesty, well...that's usually a clue



Drying? I dunno...if you get things truly clean, and don't *rub* (as in, hard), and you use very gentle drying towels, eh..I don't think that's the problem. Between the AirWand and my Qd spritz and my softest WWs, I don't think I'm marring when I dry. And if I *were* worried about that, I'd try to develop the self-discipline to blot with those WWs.

 

[Glossy McGlosserton]

LOL. "The self-discipline to blot with WWs...".



Everytime there is a drying technique thread, so many members post saying they never *wipe*, they just blot. When I'm using ONR (did that bring this back to topic?) or drying, I always think about that and try to do it, and after a panel just get aggravated and go back to lightly swiping. Trying to actually only blot is really hard! It's annoying.



SuperBee, yeah, we had two weeks of intermittant rain several weeks ago that brought our reservoirs to full. Scary thing is that this time last year our reservoirs were full, too. Seems that the underlying aquifers are still depleted. Finger's crossed that we do better this year than last. I'll be cutting down to very few "real" washes (only before adding more LSP) and keep doing mainly ONR "cat baths."

 

[SuperBee364]

Well...if it's working to your satisfaction I sure wouldn't give any thought to my two cents



But OTOH...you can be *SO* off-the-scale with regard to gentle washing (and you oughta know that *that* is a real compliment coming from me ) that I get true cognitive dissonance when I think of you doing ONR washes :think: With all due modesty, well...that's usually a clue



Drying? I dunno...if you get things truly clean, and don't *rub* (as in, hard), and you use very gentle drying towels, eh..I don't think that's the problem. Between the AirWand and my Qd spritz and my softest WWs, I don't think I'm marring when I dry. And if I *were* worried about that, I'd try to develop the self-discipline to blot with those WWs.

LoL, yup, I totally understand....my fear of marring is only overcome by my curiosity that's never satisfied. I just *have* to do ONR washes, just to see if I can do it without marring, as well as to see exactly how much marring it does cause. But I do worry about it, everytime.

 

[eddie926]

I just used ONR for the first time 2 days ago and was pleased with it.



My conventional wash window is limited as I only have shade REALLY early and REALLY late in the day. In the past, this has prevented me from keeping my car as clean as I'd like to. I wanted to try ONR since I could use it in the garage.



This was exactly the case that I bought ONR for. My car wasn't filthy, but dirtier than I'd want to use a QD on, and dirty enough that I wanted to wash it. I had time to wash but not enough time to drag out the hose, etc., and it was noon and there was full sun in my driveway. So, got out the ONR and went at it.



The car came out looking great, and I couldn't detect any marring in full sunlight. Maybe would have seen something if I had put it under halogens or flourecsent. Dunno.



The main thing for me is that my car got washed when it normally wouldn't have. It might have been several more days before I was able to do a conventional wash.



I don't know if I'd be comfortable using it on a REALLY dirty car, and I'm not getting rid of my conventional wash stuff, but it worked well for what I bought it for..



Oh, and I used a Eurow sheepskin mit from Wal Mart and Big Blue Drying Towel from properautocare.com

 

[pharmboyrx]

So do any of you wax after using ONR? It would seem to me that if you are worried about remaining grit during drying, that same grit would pose a problem when polishing or applying wax.



I was planning on washing by presoaking each panel with QD strength ONR, then washing with a sonus green MF cloth in ONR. I'm hoping to be able to apply another layer of KSG afterwards. I've seen ONR used on click & brags so I figured it must do pretty well.



I'm just hoping this is my solution since I don't have a hose. I only have one friend who has a house and I don't like bugging him every weekend to wash my car. My car isn't very dirty, just dirty enough that I don't want to QD.

 

[kilodawg]

I have been using ONR exclusively for several months. I guess I'm not sure why you would use anything else on a relatively clean car. Now that doesn't mean I use it just as directed but I find it hard to think that any other product would result in less marring.



I have used multiple buckets and a foam gun in the past but I really can't justify using that much water any more. I had very little marring in the past and I still don't now as far as I can tell. So I don't see that as an issue. Besides my personal feeling is that if you are careful while washing most of the marring you will get will come from some particulate contaminant either on your towel or falling on your car AFTER you washed it and during the drying or wipe down process.



I keep the cars I own pretty clean .... some would say really clean. The process I have settled on is a quick rinse to remove loose surface dust/dirt and then an ONR overall spray. Then another rinse followed by a high strength ONR wash with the standard method. I always use one M/F sponge for the top, another for the lower sides and a third at the wheel well edges and wheels. Then I blow dry with an electric leaf blower. I keep the car waxed regularly with 845 on top of DWG. The blower removes ALL the water so I don't need to dry at all. Then just a quick, light wipe with Hot Rod detailer and I'm done. less than 1 hour on a 993. Not sure why I would use any other soap/shampoo product? Please let me know if I'm missing something. I'm always open to new ideas...

 

[Accumulator]

I have been using ONR exclusively for several months.... Not sure why I would use any other soap/shampoo product? Please let me know if I'm missing something. I'm always open to new ideas...

If what you're doing now works for you, then I can't imagine any reason to change. Well, with the exception of intellectual curiosity as per:

....my fear of marring is only overcome by my curiosity that's never satisfied. I just *have* to do ONR washes, just to see if I can do it without marring, as well as to see exactly how much marring it does cause. But I do worry about it, everytime.

Heh heh, far be it from me to about somebody's intellectual curiosity...but, uhm...well...guess I just have too much other stuff to think about/deal with. I can honestly say that the greatest joy I get out of detailing is being able to do as little of it as possible while still maintaining things to my satisfaction. When noticed that I just don't have to (regularly) polish any more, man-oh-man was I one happy guy. I know...more of my Autopian Heresy, huh?

So do any of you wax after using ONR? It would seem to me that if you are worried about remaining grit during drying, that same grit would pose a problem when polishing or applying wax.

Yeah, many people do that. I did it the last time I ONRed the Blaze, and I didn't notice any marring or staining on the applicator pad. But I was sure keeping an eye peeled because that's exactly the sort of thing I'd worry about. If you see any staining of your applicator you'll know you didn't get all the dirt off.



kilodawg- Those pretreatments with the rinsing and ONR probably help a lot with regard to keeping the marring down.



Interesting that you don't need to dry :think: I use a blower with my Air Wand, and I do the nooks and crannies with the air compressor, and I keep my Collinite nice as fresh...but I still have to do some amount of drying. I end up spritzing some QD on there first, for a little added insurance against marring, but that means that I'm doing a lot of "drying motions" as I wipe off the QD.



Heh heh, *one hour on the 993* OOOOH...am I jealous about that! At the one-hour mark I've usually finished washing the wheels/wells/undercarriage and washed maybe one one or two panels. And I *always* take over an hour to dry/finish up no matter how fast I try to rush it :nixweiss Just yesterday I took note that I spent ten minutes doing the A8's trunk jamb/hinges, drying them off with a little bit of QD and using swabs for the tight areas. I don't really *want* to know how long I spend under the hood at every wash

 

[kilodawg]

Yep I know the drying thing sounds like an exaggeration but as long as it isn't in bright sun or too hot I can indeed dry it with just the electric leaf blower. Just did it last evening in fact. Relatively fresh Collinite is a key though.



As far as your timeline goes an hour on the 993 for me has complete exterior wash, door jams, wheels, tires, quick engine wipe (blower dries that too.). That car is a lot easier to clean than my '88 930 which has all those rubber trim pieces and bumper bellows. I think the size and design of the vehicle can greatly affect the time you need to spend on it.



I'm also sure though that the quality of your work is better than mine...However, my wife has me on a time limit so I do the best with what I can :grinno:

 

[Showroom Shine]

I know some of you have your doubts about the ONR. I did too. But since I have been using the ONR. I do not use my pressure washer. Here's the last one I did with the ONR.

Wash:ONR 2 bucket, grit guards

Wax: Pinnacle Spray

Clay: Pinnacle and Lube

Interior: Folex & Aztec Heated Extractor

Leather: Meg's Foan for leather

Wheels: Dri Wash n Guard for the Home

Tires: Grape Tire Dressing

Dash: Jax Wax Dash & Vent Magic

 

[Accumulator]

kilodawg- Yeah, no question, some vehicles are a lot easier than others, even if they seem generally similar. Heh heh, I wish that just *one* of my current vehicles was a quick-to-do one...I liked that about the Blazer.



And I *do* believe you that you're getting things dry touchless, just wish I could do it! With the fresh coat of 476S on the Denali XL I'll probably be all :angry when it doesn't dry as well for me as it your 993 does for you



And, heh heh, I guess Accumulatorette doesn't mind my spending forever on each wash as I probably wash *her* car more than all of mine combined :chuckle: