Not a good week for indiana

[black bart]

Monday GM started removing equipment from their stamping plant in Indianapolis and today Navistar announced it will close it's plant in Ft wayne.

Obama was on the local news saying his plan is working and things are getting better.

They then reported that unemployment is up and in July their were more than 93000 foreclosures on homes and that is up 6 percent from June.

 

[Jodaddy]

Hey people wanted change, so were becoming a 3rd world country. Moral of the story : Do not fix what is not broken.

 

[JaredPointer]

In all fairness, unemployment isn't something President Obama can snap his fingers and fix. I'd even step out on a limb to say that his direct input has very little at all to do with unemployment and the economy as a whole. He's just one small part of a conglomeration of people who are making decisions that affect unemployment. As we can see in the example of the stamping plant closing down, there's a direct correlation of normal working people like you and me that factored into that plant closing down.

And regarding things not being broken in the first place - where in the world have you had your head buried? Obama inherited a lot of (if not most) the problems he's had to try and deal with from previous "administrations."

 

[black bart]

In all fairness, unemployment isn't something President Obama can snap his fingers and fix. I'd even step out on a limb to say that his direct input has very little at all to do with unemployment and the economy as a whole. He's just one small part of a conglomeration of people who are making decisions that affect unemployment. As we can see in the example of the stamping plant closing down, there's a direct correlation of normal working people like you and me that factored into that plant closing down.

And regarding things not being broken in the first place - where in the world have you had your head buried? Obama inherited a lot of (if not most) the problems he's had to try and deal with from previous "administrations."

`ALL of what you say is true BUT his plan for raising taxes on small business is NOT how you decrease unemployment.

Everyone seems to hate a successful business person but let me ask you this when is the last time you were offered a job by a POOR person.

Our government wanted free trade well we now have it and until we lower our standard of living to match theirs or they raise theirs to match ours we can not compete .

Our poor economy is even hurting China we are not buying as much from them as we were.

High gas prices helped bring our economy down and what is Obama doing to help that???? Well stop off shore drilling Prevent drilling in Anwr
and raise their taxes.
How will any of that help.

YouTube - Jay Leno on Oil Drilling in ANWR

 

[JaredPointer]

I don't disagree with any of that, I just think that we as a people tend to place the blame/responsibility on a single person (the President) when he really can't influence any of it on his own.

We've got a country that seems to want a lot of government provided/assisted services for free, and that just isn't possible. While I'm not a big fan of paying taxes, the more things we decide we're entitled to as citizens here is only going to make those taxes increase. It's gotta be paid for somehow.

Free trade is just something we have to understand and live with. The world is a lot smaller marketplace than it was just a few years ago, and if we don't deal with it and adapt then we're going to be in trouble. We can kick against it and whine about it all we want but I don't see it changing. We need to roll with it and figure out what our advantages are in the worldwide economy and try to maximize them as much as possible.

And I don't really know what I think about letting oil companies drill in the Gulf or in Alaska anymore. Recent events hitting very close to home have really changed my opinions on that subject. Again, I don't think there is a single thing Obama can do that would directly affect gasoline prices. There's a lot more to that puzzle than just crude oil drilling and the price of a barrel of oil, all of which seems like Obama would have very little impression on no matter what he said or did.

And I can't see that video at work - but I think the worst thing we can do as voters is base our political opinions on anything that a celebrity says. That's definitely a pet peeve of mine. People shouldn't base their stance on what Brad Pitt, George Clooney, or James Carville or any "celebrity" has to say. Do your own research and form your own opinions because all those other people usually have some sort of agenda they're pushing for.

 

[Ronkh]

`ALL of what you say is true BUT his plan for raising taxes on small business is NOT how you decrease unemployment.

Everyone seems to hate a successful business person but let me ask you this when is the last time you were offered a job by a POOR person.

Our government wanted free trade well we now have it and until we lower our standard of living to match theirs or they raise theirs to match ours we can not compete .

Our poor economy is even hurting China we are not buying as much from them as we were.

High gas prices helped bring our economy down and what is Obama doing to help that???? Well stop off shore drilling Prevent drilling in Anwr
and raise their taxes.
How will any of that help.

YouTube - Jay Leno on Oil Drilling in ANWR

:thanks

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I just think that we as a people tend to place the blame/responsibility on a single person (the President) when he really can't influence any of it on his own.

And this is how at least in part, Obama's brilliant use of social networking to campaign is backfiring on him. He got a lot of younger people involved and "invested" in the political process despite not really understanding it, and proceeded to, as all candidates do, make a series of "promises" predicting a change for the better.

Well, in our current world of instant gratification these young people had the expectation that this "change" would happen swiftly, not understanding that there is much more to the process than that. The result? People complaining because the single person who promised them change isn't delivering it like they mistakenly expected he could.

Now I'm not saying Obama was wrong for his campaigning approach, but I do think that the American people in general could stand a bit of a refresher course on how the government actually operates sometimes.

We've got a country that seems to want a lot of government provided/assisted services for free, and that just isn't possible. While I'm not a big fan of paying taxes, the more things we decide we're entitled to as citizens here is only going to make those taxes increase. It's gotta be paid for somehow.

Again, the consequence of younger people becoming interested in government and politics in the midst of a culture riddled by a false sense of entitlement. They were taught that the government just does things for people while completely ignoring the fact that those things are funded by tax dollars.

Sad state of affairs, really.

:surrender

 

[Bunky]

The flack with Obama is mostly a distraction. The republicans goal is to say or do anything to impede progress. The dems did much of the same during Bush's term. It was the same during Clinton.

I do not take either side serious on what they really promise because they have both had a chance to reform the budget and neither have done it. Yes it is easy to give a tax cut but real spending reduction is tough. Gates proposed cutting defense by billions and already repubs and dems in Virgina (closing the command in Norfolk) have squealed.

Cutting taxes without spending is a cowards approach.

 

[black bart]

The flack with Obama is mostly a distraction. The republicans goal is to say or do anything to impede progress. The dems did much of the same during Bush's term. It was the same during Clinton.

I do not take either side serious on what they really promise because they have both had a chance to reform the budget and neither have done it. Yes it is easy to give a tax cut but real spending reduction is tough. Gates proposed cutting defense by billions and already repubs and dems in Virgina (closing the command in Norfolk) have squealed.

Cutting taxes without spending is a cowards approach.

Regan CUT taxes and it increased what the government was getting by millions.

 

[POPPAJ]

Where's everyone been. Our jobs have been going overseas and to Mexico for decades. Our tax dollars have funded the education of employers on how to set up of offshore for years. Remember NAFTA and TAFTA, the American worker got the SHAFTA! Favored nation status for the Peoples Republic of China! Any move to install safeguards for American workers was shouted down with crys of Protectionism although these safeguards exist in all the countries we trade with. Free trade? You bet, we buy overseas products and in exchange they get our jobs. Electronics, textile, steel, shoes and aircraft are only a few that are gone or merely a shadow of what used to be. Jack Welch the former CEO of GE once said that manufacturing plants should be built on barges and towed around to the cheapest labor in the world. Wake up, things are never going to return to the way things were, those jobs are gone and will never return.

Have a nice day!

 

[Mr. Clean]

Regan CUT taxes and it increased what the government was getting by millions.

Oh how time can reshape our memories. Regan and his trickle down (or voodoo economics as Bush named them) and later Bushonomics (and read my lips) were not necessarily economic boon periods for middle America.

And count me amongst the numbers that don't favor fattening the governments coffers. Of course Regan needed the extra income since he grew the government and was a big spender

 

[OCDinPDX]

Oh how time can reshape our memories. Regan and his trickle down (or voodoo economics as Bush named them) and later Bushonomics (and read my lips) were not necessarily economic boon periods for middle America.

And count me amongst the numbers that don't favor fattening the governments coffers. Of course Regan needed the extra income since he grew the government and was a big spender

Trickle-down economics is a made-up term fabricated by the liberals when it should have been called by its proper name, capitalism, all along.

 

[Poorboy]

Oh how time can reshape our memories. Regan and his trickle down (or voodoo economics as Bush named them) and later Bushonomics (and read my lips) were not necessarily economic boon periods for middle America.

And count me amongst the numbers that don't favor fattening the governments coffers. Of course Regan needed the extra income since he grew the government and was a big spender

oh how true this is :rockon trickle down did nothing more than make the rich richer and the poor poorer. If you give a rich person $5000 or $100000 it will not change their life style. They just put the money away and live as they always did. Now tax the rich person a little more and give a tax break to someone who works hard for every penny and lives pay check to pay check, you better believe that they will probably spend each and every penny of the tax cut to give their kids some better clothes and maybe buy a new toy. That is what works to get the economy moving and people spending (yes, i do have a degree in Economics) and my Professor in college worked on Regan's Economic board of advisers and tried to talk him out of the Supply side economics that Regan's people wanted. My professor who was making quite a bit of money at the time said it simply to us ... if you give me more money with a tax break, I'll still get a $5 haircut (he had a military style flat top), if you(us students) got a tax break or refund we'd go out and buy beer ... made perfect sense to me living on $35 a week at the time :notme:
No one man, Dem or Rep. can make a difference in this economy, especially in 18 months and we will be lucky if it gets better in 5-10 years, but as Americans we have to look forward and work together, unlike our wonderful politicians (who are rich btw) and find ways to make our country prosper with new ideas and hard work. Too bad so many people can't see past their unemployment checks, but i guess it's better than having these same people not get anything and then crime rates go up when desperate good people need to put food on their tables and roofs over their heads. ...

ok I'm stepping off my soapbox and hope I didn't offend anyone assout:

 

[Bunky]

Regan CUT taxes and it increased what the government was getting by millions.

Yes because we spent out way of a recession but debt went up. Starting with Reagan, the conservatives dropped their balanced budget mantra for just "no new taxes" slogan. Deficits did not matter - we could outgrow them.

Clinton raised taxes in order to get Greenspan to relax the money supply and when he did we saw an even greater expansion than under Reagan. Of course, that new found wealth went into speculation (less about generating real jobs) so we had the dot.com bubble that burst when Bush took office. The goal is to keep companies and governments from shedding jobs so fast since rehiring will be much slower.

Then we passed laws allowing banks to invest in real estate and the creation of financial games (like credit default swaps) they almost bankrupted the country when that bubble burst in the last two years of Bush.

If it was not for the tax payer bailout initiated by Bush , the world would be in a depression, little tax revenues, owing a huge debt to China/Japan, etc.

BTW, this is the same trick Bush did (two tax cuts) yet we did not recover as before because the economy is much different. The jobs are gone. Obama passed a tax cut (republicans still do not give him credit for it) that went to 95% of Americans. With 10% of the people unemployed, a tax cut means nothing to an unemployed person near term. The concern is unemployed people will default on house loans, etc. further straining the economy.

 

[black bart]

Yes because we spent out way of a recession but debt went up. Starting with Reagan, the conservatives dropped their balanced budget mantra for just "no new taxes" slogan. Deficits did not matter - we could outgrow them.

Clinton raised taxes in order to get Greenspan to relax the money supply and when he did we saw an even greater expansion than under Reagan. Of course, that new found wealth went into speculation (less about generating real jobs) so we had the dot.com bubble that burst when Bush took office. The goal is to keep companies and governments from shedding jobs so fast since rehiring will be much slower.

Then we passed laws allowing banks to invest in real estate and the creation of financial games (like credit default swaps) they almost bankrupted the country when that bubble burst in the last two years of Bush.

If it was not for the tax payer bailout initiated by Bush , the world would be in a depression, little tax revenues, owing a huge debt to China/Japan, etc.

BTW, this is the same trick Bush did (two tax cuts) yet we did not recover as before because the economy is much different. The jobs are gone. Obama passed a tax cut (republicans still do not give him credit for it) that went to 95% of Americans. With 10% of the people unemployed, a tax cut means nothing to an unemployed person near term. The concern is unemployed people will default on house loans, etc. further straining the economy.

`All this does not change the fact that when Regan cut taxes the government took in MORE money.

Now you Liberals can twist it any way you want but the facts are when he cut taxes revenue increased.
All I did was mention what was on the news but Any time Obama's name is mentioned You\Steve and Scott P can not resist giving us the far left view. Scott will be along shortly.
Steve did a excellent job of rewriting history in his post but their is no way to support your Idealogical view without changing what really happened.

 

[JaredPointer]

`All this does not change the fact that when Regan cut taxes the government took in MORE money.

I'm not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd like to see you explain this point in a little bit more detail. I happen to know as someone who has prepared a helluva lot of financial statements that you can rearrange numbers in different "categories" to show on paper that you made a lot of money or lost a lot of money when in fact you really just broke even (in layman's terms).

An entity doesn't decrease it's #1 source of revenue and take in more revenue after the cut. I'm not disagreeing with what you're trying to convey - I just think there's a lot more to what may have actually happened than your statement leads anyone to believe. Who saw what tax cuts? Where did the government get more money from? Etc, etc.

 

[Scott P]

`All this does not change the fact that when Regan cut taxes the government took in MORE money.

Now you Liberals can twist it any way you want but the facts are when he cut taxes revenue increased.
All I did was mention what was on the news but Any time Obama's name is mentioned You\Steve and Scott P can not resist giving us the far left view. Scott will be along shortly.
Steve did a excellent job of rewriting history in his post but their is no way to support your Idealogical view without changing what really happened.

You know nothing of my politics. If you are basing my political compass on a few posts on this forum, then will I be allowed to believe that you only have a grade school level education based on your constant inability to get the correct use of there, they're or their?

 

[Poorboy]

Bart ..I'm far from a liberal but not a conservative :hmmm: so that makes me a moderate ... I do not like paying taxes but am willing to pay my fair share.
I do not care for our welfare system and wish it was at least a workfare system. I also do not care for Presidents that put us into wars that end up killing our men and and having us spend billions on another countries infra-structure when ours is falling apart. Building schools for these same countries when ours are in disrepair. I will support our troops and military when the are deployed, but hope they all come home safely, as you never know if one of them could be our next great leader or invent something that will change history. Yes, I also do see that we must help in the development of the third world, but not as the sole supplier of funds and people.
Moderation is where Republicans and Democrats have forgotten we belong.
So please do not lump me in a group, as I have built my own business with no help from the government and receive no preferential tax treatment.
Back to my vacation :howdy which I get all of one week a year assout:assout:

 

[RANDAL]

I'M STAYING OUT OF IT!!! Besides like my late father always said, Quote." We dont talk politics or religion", end of quote. I try to stay that way because I dont know much about either one, And most people really dont either,IMO.

 

[JohnHenry]

You know nothing of my politics. If you are basing my political compass on a few posts on this forum, then will I be allowed to believe that you only have a grade school level education based on your constant inability to get the correct use of there, they're or their?

Cheap shot, Scott. We've got the whole range of the political (and socioeconomic) spectrum represented here. No need to be personally insulting.