Newbie Questions

T

tattoowdr

New member
Hi! I've been browsing this forum for a couple weeks now, and finally decided to register. My brain is overflowing with the amount of information available here! I have some questions regarding the prep work needed before waxing. I have a black '97 Prelude with some minor scratches, water spots and swirl marks that I would like to remove. I've used Meguiers wax, scratch remover and polish about once every 3 months, so I haven't totally neglected my car's paint. Anyway, I've been debating which products to buy out of these:



The ABC system

Clay bar

A type of scratch remover

Either the Zaino or Klasse system



If I used the ABC system, would I still need to Clay and wash with Dawn to remove old wax? I you could please recommend some products and the order I should use them for my situation, I would be very greatful! Just one more question. Is there anywhere to purchase higher-end products without ordering them via internet in the Dallas area? Thanks so much.



:)
 
The ABC will remove all old waxes, silicones, grime, ferrous metal oxides, etc.



However, if the vehicle has deeply imbedded ferrous particles, you may wish to clay while the B is on the surface, use it as your lubricator.



Ketch

:eek:
 
I have never used the ABC system but I am pretty sure the A will remove all old wax.The B will remove alot of the same stuff that clay will and the C is a final wash.I do not think you need the dawn after or before the system and if the paint still has ruff spots then you my want to clay.Hope this helps
 
Scamp,



Welcome to the forum. You will find a wealth of knowledge here, and folks are friendly and willing to help you out.



That said, let's get into your questions.



1. ABC from Auto International will take off old wax, synthetic coatings, and any rail dust/industrial fallout/acid rain that may be in your paint. ABC is concentrated, so follow the directions on the bottles. I have used ABC twice now, and was pleased with the results. ABC took off any old wax/Klasse I had, and just left me with a nice, clean finish.



2. Clay Bar. Clay is nice to remove any embedded contaminants that ABC did not remove. I would say for a really nice finish, use the ABC, and then clay.



Be sure to read the forum's tips on using clay. Mother's Clay, Pinnacle Clay, and 3M clay all seem to work well for folks on the forum. One thing, you don't need much pressure, let the clay and the lubricant do the work. For lubricant, use what comes with the clay. Otherwise you can use Eagle One WET quick detailer as a great lubricant for claying.



I assure you that the clay will really get your paint nice and smooth.



3. Swirl removers. Okay, so you have cleaned with ABC, clayed to remove additional contaminants and now you want to polish/swirl remove. 3M has some really nice products for swirl removal. I have used Meguiar's line for years, and I think 3M has a better product.



Now comes inspection time. How bad are your swirls? Can you feel the scratch/swirl with your fingernail, are they like small white lines? Or are they really light swirls which only the sun can show?



For medium to heavy swirls 3M sells a 3M Perfect It II rubbing compund in paste or liquid that is nice. I would say apply this by hand always.



Use a good quality terry applicator, and after ABC and Claying, work the 3M into the paint in one direction only for say about 15 to 20 strokes. Wipe off with a nice terry cloth or MF towel. Spray on some Rubbing alcohol(isoprophyl) and wipe off. Now drive the car out into the sun, or shine a light on it. Is the swirl gone/diminished? This way you know what you have done and your results before you continue. Also, only work a very small area, 2 x2 or less. This way you also make sure you are not adding more marrs to the paint surface than you are taking away.



For light swirls, 3M swirl remover for dark color cars is nice, using the same steps I described above. If you have a porter cable orbital buffer you can use 3M Perfect It III Machine Glaze, which is just a newer swirl remove for use with orbital/rotary polishers.





Whew, this is long, but you asked.



A final few words of caution.



1. Abrasives, like 3M rubbing compound should ONLY be used on metal painted surfaces. DO NOT use this compound on your front plastic painted bumper or rear plastic painted bumper.



2. Any abrasive, no matter how mild, can cause finer scratches. You will find that in using rubbing compounds you will have some fine scratches left over. That is why you will need both produts for severe swirls/scratches. One to remove the heavy stuff, and the 3M swirl mark remover to remove the fine scratches left by the rubbing compound.



3. Go slow, do small spots, take your time. This is very important. Removing swirls can be a breeze, but you need time. Just think of it this way, when you compound/swirl remove you are really applying a solution like liquid sandpaper(although it is milder). Don't rub in circles or back and forth. Use single direction strokes, and use medium pressure.



Others more experienced than me will give you info as well....so learn all you can, then proceed.



You can find 3M products at Trak Auto, Pep Boys, Autozone etc.

ABC can be ordered from autoint.com, and the clay can be found at the stores mentioned above.





SJ
 
for the suggestions. I think I will try the things you mentioned! I'm so glad I found this forum, everyone is so friendly and helpful.
 
Scamp,



A few other items.



I would say for those new cars you list in your signature, you would NOT want to use the 3M products I mentioned unless you are working with swirls. For everyday polishing the paint, Pinnacle Paint Cleaning Lotion is a nice polish/cleaner for relatively new paint. PPCL contains very low abrasive content, but cleans well. I would stick with PPCL on those new trucks you have, and keep the 3M for the prelude.



Klasse/Zaino/Blackfire



As to these, it is a consumer's choice. I use Klasse now. Klasse gives a great, deep shine and a soft paint surface(like butter) From what I read here Zaino gives a really bright shine and great slickness(slickness better than carnuba, but more like carnuba than Klasse "soft" feel). Blackfire combines the protection of a synthetic(Klasse/Zaino) with the depth of a carnuba.



You will always give up something no matter which one you use.

Klasse cons (can only apply one coat of Sealant Glaze per day due to cure times, All In One seems to have a high solvent content.) Zaino(Some find it more costly than Klasse, some believe the shine is "plastic" looking) Blackfire(great depth, but some feel shine is not as mirror bright as Klasse or Zaino, but you can apply back to back layers of Protectant layer).





Again, I am sure others will chime in soon enough after they get home from Best Buy/the mall and their turkey has had time to digest.



Good luck, and let me know if I have not been clear on anything. So many people here have and still help me out everyday...I love being able to help others out as well.





SJ
 
Scamp..



Take Ron's suggestion. Buy the Clay. You can use it in upcoming months/years. ABC, then put your hand into a cellophane cigarette wrapper(I don't smoke, but take them off old packs from neighbor), or a glad zip lock bag. Once you dry after ABC, gently run your hand down the surface of the car. It should be like GLASS! If you feel rough spots/bumps/grit, then clay. This is telling you that not EVERYTHING was removed by the ABC.



Don't get me wrong, Ron knows more about paint than I could learn. However, I thought this way, you really know whether ABC removed everything, or if you had some tough spots that it did'nt get off.



As far as swirl removal, remember, go slow, and take your time. I have created more detailing nightmares than I care to remember because I was in a hurry to go somewhere, or get the car back to my wife. I would say clear a Saturday on your calendar, start as early as you can, have some cold ones nearby, and enjoy!



Without a Porter Cable 7424, or other random orbit polisher you might take two to three hours to remove all your swirls properly, especially on a black car. Christmas is coming up, I suggest you treat yourself to a porter cable. It is one of the best detailing investments I have made. For swirl removal the PC cuts my time from two hours down to 30 minutes or an hour at times. The results are also much better.





Again good luck,



SJ
 
Again, thanks for the help, but I think there was a misunderstanding. The trucks were listed in Todd's signature, not mine. Just wanted to clear that up. But I was considering the Pinnacle Paint Cleaning Lotion anway. Would this remove some light swirls and scratches, or would I need to go with the 3M? Also, I started to place an order on the autoint.com for the ABC system but I didn't realize that stuff was so expensive! Can you only get it in gallons? How long does it last?



Scamp
 
Scamp,

PPCL is really a polish for new cars. It is great for cleaning and polishing the paint. While is says it can remove light swirls, most here find that if you need swirl removal, 3M Swirl Remover, or 3M Perfect It rubbing compound for heavy swirls is needed.

I say, get the PPCL. It will keep the paint looking great after you do swirl remover. Keep in mind that PPCL will remove Klasse, Zaino whatever. So when you use PPCL, you would need to re-seal/wax those areas.

This way you can try the PPCL, if it does'nt work well enough on swirls, then head to Pepboys and pick up the 3M. You might want to PPCL the paint before you Klasse/Zaino etc. some here think that PPCL after claying really gives a smoother surface, but again, it is not necessary.


Hmm..ABC can be pricey. I know at one point Ron had mentioned working on getting it into smaller bottles. Try this, email Ron at [email protected](his email address is listed on the website as well) and ask him if they can sell in smaller bottles. Ron is a good fellow and normally helps out where he can.

I bought the gallons, and it lasts a long time. 16 ozs of A and about 8 ozs of B is all I needed to do my car. The thing is the stuff does not seem to have a short shelf life, so I think my investment is sound. I see no expiration dates on the bottles, and A is an Alkaline solution, while B is an acidic one. I don't think the chemical makeupof this stuff could really go bad, unless you left it out in the sun all summer, or froze it. Check with Ron on this point and see if ABC has a shelf life.

Think about this, most car care products are shipped from a manufaturer to a distributor, and then to a retail store. How long a product sits at a distributor and then at a retail store is anyone's guess. So most of this stuff is designed to have a long shelf life anyway. My experience is that anything that can spoil has an expiration date on it.

Also, I use C every week to wash my car. The C is a good wash. I use 2 capfuls for a 5 gallon bucket and get tons of suds and plenty of lubricating action on the paint.

Keep in mind too that I am spouting out all of these products without regards to your budget. If you have a limit on what you want to spend..then get the clay and 3M, work on cleaning/swirl remover, and then polish/seal with Klasse/Zaino/Blackfire.

SJ
 
Very impressive SJ, loads of info. :D

I even learned a thing of two from it, I am pretty finiky with expiration dates. If it does not have one and doesn't look/smell ok, its in the trash. Better safe than sorry, but for car care products it should be fine, unless it was an organic product like some of Zymol's stuff (ok all of it), and Terry Frieberg (SP?) mention of food grade preservatives in his leather condtioner in his products also chimes in on this (please read the Blackfire interview at www.autopia-carport.com I find it interesting.)

Well enough babbling, SJ keep it up! :up

Jason:bounce
 
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