Newbie, Machine Polishing 101

B

BillH2

New member
I have a car that was painted with Lacquer in 1980. (65 Mustang, white with blue stripes) Not much has been done to it since the original process of being buffed out by the paint shop. A couple of wax coats since then. It’s always been under cover with minimum road time. Looking at it this year, I realize the finish is badly in need of some attention. What I think the car needs (besides a new paint job, which is not in the budget) is a complete color sanding and machine polishing.



I have a Snap-On 7-9” variable speed polisher and two wool pads, one new and one well used on other cars, both 30 years old. (The polisher was loaned out to a guy 20 years ago and just recently retrieved.) I don’t mind tackling the job myself, but I just don’t want to screw it up. I did some experimentation with the deck lid, I masked off the trunk edges with blue tape. Sanded the deck lid with 1000, then 1500 grit paper, then went over it with the buffer. It took a long time since I went very slowly. The impression I get is the paint is extremely hard. The lacquer cracks would seem to prove this out. I hesitate going any further, so, questions:



What should I be using for pads besides the wool pad?

How should be wool pad be cared for, is it washable?

What compounds should I use?

Where is the best place to purchase this stuff. (I can purchase locally but the prices seem awfully high).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hope these questions don't sound too inane.
 
BillH2- Welcome to Autopia!



Nah, your Qs are not inane at all. Some sorta-random thoughts follow:



-Some ss paint, especially white *can* be extremely hard.

-Different wool pads are different. Some are harsh/gentle, some can/can't be washed out.

-I'd be a little leery of using paper as aggressive as 1000 grit, but that's just me.

-I'd absolutely do the final sanding with something a *LOT* milder than 1500. Even 2K can be hard to correct (but is usually OK).

-There are different compounds that oughta work, but all will require a milder follow up. Consider Meguiar's M105, the new spray compound from Optimum, or (more aggressive, will require more follow up steps) 3m Extra Cut or Ardex 1000.

-Some of those compounds might take quite a few follow up steps to finish out OK.

-You might want to do the final buffing with a random orbital, or use 3M Ultrafina on the appropriate foam pad.

-I get most of my stuff from We Are Car Care -- Car Wax, Car Polish, Auto Detailing Supplies, Car Buffers & Car Accessories Store but the local sourcing can have advantages if you need something *now*.
 
Accumulator said:
BillH2- Welcome to Autopia!



Nah, your Qs are not inane at all. Some sorta-random thoughts follow:



-Some ss paint, especially white *can* be extremely hard.

-Different wool pads are different. Some are harsh/gentle, some can/can't be washed out.

-I'd be a little leery of using paper as aggressive as 1000 grit, but that's just me.

-I'd absolutely do the final sanding with something a *LOT* milder than 1500. Even 2K can be hard to correct (but is usually OK).

-There are different compounds that oughta work, but all will require a milder follow up. Consider Meguiar's M105, the new spray compound from Optimum, or (more aggressive, will require more follow up steps) 3m Extra Cut or Ardex 1000.

-Some of those compounds might take quite a few follow up steps to finish out OK.

-You might want to do the final buffing with a random orbital, or use 3M Ultrafina on the appropriate foam pad.

-I get most of my stuff from We Are Car Care -- Car Wax, Car Polish, Auto Detailing Supplies, Car Buffers & Car Accessories Store but the local sourcing can have advantages if you need something *now*.
Click to expand...



I called the Meguiar support line and received the following recommendations:

Backing plate: W67 (I actually found a W68)

Foam cutting pad: W7207

Foam polishing pad: W8207

Wax application pad: W9207

Compound: M-85 followed by M83

Any thoughts on this stuff? Better working product? I'm open to suggestions.



After reading a little of the TONS of information on this site, I thought I would proceed as follows:

Doing a sectioned part of the deck lid, first use the clay bar. Mask off the door lines. Then wet sand it with 2000 (do you know how hard it is for a guy who has never done this to actually bring himself to apply sandpaper to the finish of a car?) Next use 2500 and finish with 3000. After drying off everything, use the rotary with M85. (Don't know if I should use the wool or foam pad). Next use the foam W7207 with the M83. Some Ultrafina may be in order. Then it's ready for wax?

Correct me if i'm wrong. (And I am sure I am, according to my wife)

Looks like I am going to have to buy all of this stuff mail order. The local shop does not stock anything finer than 2000 grit paper.

Thanks
 
BillH2- Somehow missed this thread yesterday...



That approach oughta work OK, but it'd be swell if you could get some advice from somebody who's done a lot of wetsanding (that would *not* be me).



Not sure you'd need the 2500 step, and while 3000 *will* polish out pretty easily, I've polished out 2K scratches easily enough too.



The M85 oughta be *plenty* aggressive for 3K scratches. I myself would probably use M105 instead (yeah, even on single stage) or the new Optimum Spray Compound.



I'm not a big fan of M83 and I wouldn't expect it to finish out ready-to-wax. I'd also be (very) surprised if you were able to finish out hologram-free with it via rotary. I'm not sure I'd want to use it with the cutting pad as opposed to a polishing pad, but then I simply wouldn't use the stuff (I'd much rather use M105 on a mild pad and then switch to either M80 or M205).



Can't help but wonder what Mike Phillips would recommend, this job seems right down his alley :think:
 
I stopped in to the local paint supply store today and picked up a 32oz bottle of M-105. $32.00! I cringed when the guy told me how much, he looked hurt and said "I gave you body shop price on it" I thanked him and didn't say that the same item would cost me $19.99 on line. I ordered everything listed above, should see it in the next couple of weeks. In the mean time, I am going to go over some sections with 2000 and M-105. Wish me luck.
 
BillH2 said:
I stopped in to the local paint supply store today and picked up a 32oz bottle of M-105. $32.00! I cringed when the guy told me how much, he looked hurt and said "I gave you body shop price on it" I thanked him and didn't say that the same item would cost me $19.99 on line. I ordered everything listed above, should see it in the next couple of weeks. In the mean time, I am going to go over some sections with 2000 and M-105. Wish me luck.
Click to expand...



Just what did you order? With the M105 (I'm *VERY* confident that was money well-spent!) you might want to follow up with something other than the M83, and that's not just my down-on-M83 opinion :D



You might find the M105 does OK on the 2k scratches, but it'll probably take a few passes. Oh, and don't overwork the M105, it's done mighty fast! Be careful wiping off the residue as it's still abrasive (doesn't "break down").



Good luck with this, and I think it's good that you patronized the local paint shop. Good to have such a place for local purchases.
 
BillH2 said:
I stopped in to the local paint supply store today and picked up a 32oz bottle of M-105. $32.00! I cringed when the guy told me how much, he looked hurt and said "I gave you body shop price on it" I thanked him and didn't say that the same item would cost me $19.99 on line. I ordered everything listed above, should see it in the next couple of weeks. In the mean time, I am going to go over some sections with 2000 and M-105. Wish me luck.
Click to expand...



Did you go to Yakima Grinding? Good guys to deal with but expensive!
 
RDAVEX7 said:
Did you go to Yakima Grinding? Good guys to deal with but expensive!
Click to expand...



Grinding didn't have any M-105. I went to the other place. Both places are typical of what you get in a small town where there's no competiton (Not like the old Bowdens Auto Parts days, huh?) I don't begrudge anyone making a profit, but I resent it when they pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!



I have M-83 and M-85 on order, along with some 2500 and 3000 and an assortment of foam backing pads. I wet sanded a part of the car I replaced (the front valance). I went over it with some M-105 by hand, then used the buffer. It looked very good but those 10" wide stripes are going to be a challange.
 
BillH2 said:
Grinding didn't have any M-105. I went to the other place. Both places are typical of what you get in a small town where there's no competiton (Not like the old Bowdens Auto Parts days, huh?) I don't begrudge anyone making a profit, but I resent it when they pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!



I have M-83 and M-85 on order, along with some 2500 and 3000 and an assortment of foam backing pads. I wet sanded a part of the car I replaced (the front valance). I went over it with some M-105 by hand, then used the buffer. It looked very good but those 10" wide stripes are going to be a challange.
Click to expand...



Yeah 2 months ago Grinding didn't know what M105 was, I go in there every now and then and I feel like I'm speaking a foreign language when discussing products. I remember Bowdens, it's been awhile. If you need anything let me know, I'm not brick and mortar like the local supply stores.
 
Here are a couple of photos. The hood is glass and very fragile. (There were 4 hood designs, starting with the very worst on the early cars. Since this is a very early car, it got one of those). I have a glass valance panel that was recently replaced with the factory bumper. It's rather difficult to practice on because it's not bolted to anything. (Do you know how hard it is to buff something holding the buffer with one hand? Picture a monkey in sexual congress with a football!).

Anyway, the first thing I learned was:

The application of properly moistened 2K paper will not immediately result in going through to the primer. I have to admit that I really wasn't sure about this.



The beatings will continue until morale improves!
 

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