new (to me) vehicle, frame has lots of sand in it. Advice needed

W

wolfe

New member
Hey all,

I have a 2012 Dodge Durango which I bought used, and I`m in the process of giving it a thorough detail.

I am finding a lot of sand and red clay sediment in the box sections/frame rails of the chassis (it`s a unibody vehicle). So far I`ve run a garden hose through it and flushed until the water comes out clear. Don`t believe it`s been flooded - it looks more like it`s been driven on a beach and sand has accumulated in the box sections.

The insides of the frame rails feel a little greasy to the touch - I`m not sure if this is from the clay soil or from some kind of protectant that was on there.

I`d like to keep this car a long time so want it to last - what are the best processes for 1) cleaning out any remaining sand and dirt and 2) protecting the rails from the insides? So far all I`ve done is fresh water - no detergent or chemicals.

Thank you very much
 
do you have access to a pressure washer? i wouldn`t hesitate to use detergents or degreasers if needed. a good leaf blower when you`re done to clear up any standing water. don`t know what to tell you about inside the rails, they do sell undercoating in spray cans but many don`t advise the use of undercoatings anymore.
 
Wolfe- This is, sadly, a cautionary tale about what you can discover after you get a new-to-you vehicle home and start looking at stuff closely. Hope you get it squared away so it lasts a good long time.

There are products made specifically for coating the inside of frame rails. They`ll even neutralize/arrest (if not truly "kill") minor existing rust. The one I`d recommend is Eastwood`s Internal Frame Coating Eastwood Internal Frame Coating 14oz Aerosol Messy stuff though, it gets *everywhere*, which is good for nooks and crannies in the frame but bad for making a royal mess if it gets out through some seams/holes/etc.

Done properly, and that`s a biggie, this *specific approach to this specific concern* shouldn`t lead to the sort of problems that DIY Rustproofing often can (namely odd "pockets" that retain moisture and lead to the exact problems you`re trying to head off).

If you go this route, buy a lot more than you need. I`ve only used it for minor jobs, but people who`ve done whole frames/etc. say they go through a ton of it by the time they`re finished.

But I`d sure get all that sand out first, which might be a huge challenge. Don`t want it to stay in there where it can retain moisture. And that brings us to that greasy stuff.

Too bad Ron Ketcham isn`t posting here these days, he`d know whether that "greasy" stuff is factory rustproofing or not. I kinda suspect that it *is* (as opposed to clay/dirt) but I just don`t know. I`d think twice about doing a thorough degreasing for that reason.
 
Thank you guys.

Do you think it`d be a bad idea to pressure wash inside the frame rails? My other thought was to use a foam gun (I have both low and high pressure versions) and flush out the frame rails with a `wash & wax` type product.

I actually bought a couple of cans of that Eastwood stuff for the trailer hitch. Good to know it`s a solid product. Aside from the cost savings, how would this stack up to a professionally applied coating? There are plenty of truck and off-road shops local to me.

Going to get an inspection camera in there today and see how it all looks.

The sand I`ve removed so far has come out very easily with water - it`s dried/hardened but a garden hose softens it up instantly. The clay baked on the exhaust is another story... Maybe I should just enjoy my `organic ceramic coated` exhaust` :)
 
Wolfe- I don`t see any problem foaming/etc. in there as long as you`re planning on having some product applied anyhow, but OTOH if just rinsing it is sufficient then that`s all I`d do before inspecting with the camera. I wouldn`t use a "wash + wax" product because I wouldn`t want anything like the "wax" (however minimal it might be) in there potentially interfering with some kind of rust treatment.

Glad to hear the frame is cleaning up OK, I`d only do parts of the exhaust that show.

I`d see what the inspection camera shows you (isn`t today`s tech just great?!?)

Hard to compare DIY/Pro since it`s so dependent on the person doing the work. IF (potentially a big "if") the Pro does a really good job that would probably be better if only because his experience oughta factor in big-time whereas you`d be learning on the job. And if they guarantee their work...
 
Thank you. I was able to flush one side again today and got even more sand out. Pulled the rear wheel well liner and gave all that a good clean too. Pressure washer really helped.

My inspection camera broke part way through, but before it did I hand`t see much rust on the inside. Got a new one on the way. I did notice a couple of seams at the front seemed to look a little rusty, which I`d like to tackle before they get worse. Wondering if I should try and get some rust convertor into the seam via capillary action, or if I should try something else. I am going to have a hard time getting to both sides of some of these seams I think.

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wolfe- While I find it OK for some stuff, Rust Converters aren`t really all that useful to me and that`s not the approach I`d go with for that.

But you`re absolutely on the right track, thinking about getting the product down in there.

Eastwood`s Frame Coater stuff or some other such product that wicks well. I used KBS`s Cavity Coater on a similar issue (Tahoe rear barn door) and so far so good, but the thinner Eastwood Frame stuff would probably wick down into the seam better.

If the product does wick down into the seam well, you should get OK protection even though you can only access one side.
 
Ah, thank you. I wasn`t sure how viscous the Eastwood stuff is. I`m assuming you can use it without the tube, as a regular spray can for the outside surfaces?

Might you have any suggestions on how to prep the inside of the frame sections for the Eastwood spray please? I have access to a pressure washer (electric), pressure washer foam cannon on a long attachment, garden hose foam cannon on a short attachment, compressed air, leaf blower, and wheel ramps.

I`m still getting some residual sand and the greasy clay stuff, so I plan on flushing it a few more times. New inspection camera will be here this week so that`ll help determine when it`s clean. I`m unsure how aggressive I need to be in terms of detergent choice before I apply the eastwood spray - from plain water to carwash soap, dawn, degreasers etc.

Thank you very much for the help on this.
 
Wolfe- The Frame Coater is *SO* thin and watery that the word "viscous" doesn`t even come to my mind!

I never tried it without the tube (my can went *fast*, lucky I got done what I needed to, so BTW you`ll need plenty of it) but even if it works OK I`d lean (strongly) towards their Black Heavy Duty Anti-Rust for that instead. For areas that show it really is great stuff, looks far more "paint-like" than you`d expect from a "rustproofing" product. I`ve ended up used it on frames/etc. that show even though I had originally planned to paint them.

The Frame Coater is so thin that it`s really messy stuff that can *really* get everywhere. Good for tight seams and coverage in areas where you can`t see what you`re doing, not so good for other applications. And...thought occurs tome.... it won`t leave as thick a build-film as I think you`ll want for the seams.

See- now I`m a little ??? about the seams you pictured now that I think about it, if only because of that "oh so thin and runny and messy" aspect of the frame coater. If those seams are on the "outside"/areas that show, I`d probably use the Black HDAR. It`s viscosity oughta allow good wicking into the seam. It`s not some "thick undercoating" stuff IMO.

Sorry to sound like I`m flip-flopping on you, but that`s the sort of thing that`d give me fits trying to figure out...even if it were sitting right here in front of me, I`d just be scratching my head about it.

If it were mine, I`d just keep flushing it (plain water) and see what the new camera shows. I`d probably plan to use the Frame Coater in the frame rails and the Black HDAR for everything else.

Since both Eastwood products can be used in separate sessions (not like you have to do it all at one time lest you have "bonding to previous application" issues), I think I`d buy one can of each and do some experimenting to see what`s gonna satisfy *you* best since IMO there are all sorts of Personal Preference issues that can factor in besides just picking the (presumably) best one for the job (which might really be a few different but similar jobs when it comes right down to it).
 
Great info, thank you.

So if I`m understanding correctly - frame coating on all internal areas I can get to, and HDAR sprayed on the outside of all areas?

Should I also apply HDAR to the internal areas over the top of the frame coating, if I can get to it?

Are these the correct two products:

frame coating (I have 2 cans of the black already)
Eastwood Internal Frame Coating 14oz Aerosol

HDAR
Heavy-Duty Anti-Rust in Black - Eastwood

I can deal with it being messy if it`s going to give me the best shot at neutralizing the rust and protecting the frame for the long term. It`s interesting to see over the whole truck, that Dodge decided to seal certain seams but not others.
 
Wolfe- yeah, those are the two products.

Note that Eastwood`s Pre is a very good solvent for prepping and cleaning up, just in case you don`t already have a fave or something picked out at the local autobody/paint supply store.

I don`t know about layering the two products, I`ve wondered about that myself. If you call (rather than order online) I bet somebody at Eastwood could tell us about that. They might have some good opinions about which-for-what too.

As for "what it`s been through!?!", I bet somebody just used it like a Truck, as in "no scary story". When I got my beater-Tahoe its frame/etc. had a *LOT* of gravel in it; when I got my current Crown Vic its undercarriage had obviously been subjected to a *LOT* of hard use on limestone gravel/chip-and-seal roads...some vehicles just get used in non-Autopian conditions and it`s not always the Kiss of Death.
 
wolfe - Thanks for posting this

Accumulator - Thanks for all the feedback! I`m sure that beater Jeep of mine will have similar issues! It`s originally a WA state vehicle.
 
Someone hinted at it earlier, but you might have a reputable shop do a quick check to see if you got a flood-damaged car. Maybe not, but better that you know early for appropriate recourse.
 
Accumulator said:
Wolfe- yeah, those are the two products.

Note that Eastwood`s Pre is a very good solvent for prepping and cleaning up, just in case you don`t already have a fave or something picked out at the local autobody/paint supply store.
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Thanks! I`d use this inside frame rails and out right before applying the other products, right?

I don`t think it`s been stranded in a flood, but certainly a second opinion wouldn`t hurt. I wonder if it got a bit wetter than it should have while beach launching a boat or something like that. The fact that there`s sand and clay is interesting though.
 
wolfe said:
Thanks! I`d use this [Pre] inside frame rails and out right before applying the other products, right?
Click to expand...

Not *inside*. Use it to clean the outside so the Black HDAR sticks well. I wouldn`t use it inside (if you figured out a way to do it..) lest it remove something beneficial that`s already in there. Plus, it`d be a pricey, solventy experience :D

Again, I think this is one of those cases where an old-fashioned phone call (to Eastwood) could be *extremely* beneficial. Get it right from the horse`s mouth.
 
I`ll give them a call to discuss :)

Did solve the sand mystery though - found the previous owner and gave him a call. They live at the end of a dirt road. Verified this with google maps. No flooding or anything like that which is an enormous relief.

I also got a gallon of evaporust to try on some exposed stuff like hubs and bolts, followed up with some zinc paint.

New inspection camera arrived and it`s so much better than my old one. I`ll post up some pics and share whatever I learn from Eastwood.
 
wolfe- Ah, that`s all good news!

I`d use something other than the zinc-based paint (which never impressed me much) after the evaporust though.
 
Thanks for the heads-up! what would you recommend please? some are just exposed bolt heads, some are exposed threads/nuts e.g. castle nut and spindle. I`d thought about removing bolts for re-plating but that`s more than I really want to get in to.
 
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