New Products - Open Minds

C

CharlesW

The Rainmaker
New products are not a bad thing even if we aren't familiar with them or don't understand them.
Automatically reacting on a negative manner to any post that seems to be about something other than what we know about isn't the way to learn about new things.

I'm not talking about the shills and the blatant promotion of products, but the putting forth of an idea, product or process that has caused someone some interest.

Many of the products I use today were unheard of just a few years back and were not readily accepted. Some of those products have become favorites of mine.
Examples:
Poorboy's Spray & Wipe waterless wash
DP, Optimum or Protect-All rinseless washes
Optimum Opti-Seal (The only WOWA sealant I have used)
I'm sure plenty more could be named, but that's not what I'm getting at.
We seem to be real quick to poke fun at any new ideas that are brought up.
Some deserve it, some may not. If we discourage any posting of products other than those we are familiar with, we will lose out on a lot of information and may very likely drive away what might prove to be valuable members.
Maybe we should listen and discuss some of those products before we start making fun of the poster.
If they truly are a shill or spammer, the mods usually handle it in due time. If you question the intent of a post, report it. Let the mods know.
FWIW, I realize I have been guilty of some of this as well, but that still doesn't make it right.
Detail City is supposed to be the friendly forum. Let's keep it that way. :)
 
Charles

I concur on the introduction of new products, but I really don't see anyone bagging on anyone that is posting something new. The only time that I've seen this is when they are brand new and posting links.

Now that said we can have an opinion of them even if we have not tried them. That sponge with the soap added was one...I didn't post on the thread but it looks hookie to me..but to some it would be a great fit...that's what makes the world go round...that's not saying that I can't post something on the thread about it...again my opinion
 
Charles,

Of course you are right.
But in defense of myself, both of thes guys had links to their sites.
One or both ahd blanketed the detiling boards.

So yes you are right, but IMHO (and since I am prolly the most guilty this time) but in our defense they were touting stuff.
 
CharlesW said:
If I had followed that recommendation, I would have missed out on a lot of good products.
I would still be cleaning tires with Bleche-White, Washing with Zip Wax and waxing with Rain Dance. :)
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Should I not be using those things??????? :inspector:
 
I'm assuming this is in response to our treatment of Tuckermatic recently.

Normally I try to keep a degree of professionalism and I also try to keep people from getting the treatment he received whether they deserve it or not. I will say he did ask for it and drew first blood.

Maybe I thought the forum needed an entertaining drama. You guys say we don't want it to be another Autopia but if I squash something like this every time it starts to get entertaining we run the risk of becoming a boring forum.

Maybe I wanted this guy to catch it because he was not only bashing us for our methods but he also was blatantly promoting a product and avoided the question as to whether he stood to gain from it. I'm sure I could have handled the situation better so to those of you who are disappointed in my actions regarding Tuckermatic I apologize.

Not sure I would do it differently if I had the chance though.:redface:
 
I agree with the nothing worse than a boring forum. Oy vey! and Autopia is not "boring" maybe a little high-headed, and likes to think it's the red on your candy cane but it's not nearly as good as it once was. It seems a few people that I use to like have either left or got the ban - too bad.

DC is pretty good, I like it and as long as old Deanski posts regularly - you can be sure I'll be around.

Now - that new product thing. It's hard to tell the shill from the dude that just discovered (fill in the blank) and thinks it's better than sex in the morning. I read a long tale of thrash talking all because some guy likes Turtle Wax products, hey folks it's wax not politics or religion - put in in perspective ok, as Sgt Hulka said,"lighten up Francis"
 
I do not think some OTC brands (Turtle Wax, Black Magic) and for some even Mothers or Meguiars will ever get a fair evaluation from an open mind.
 
Bunky said:
I do not think some OTC brands (Turtle Wax, Black Magic) and for some even Mothers or Meguiars will ever get a fair evaluation from an open mind.
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I think that is quite true. Meguiar's products kept my vehicles looking pretty good for a lot of years. They still could, but some of the things that were a nuisance with Meguiar's don't happen with the products I now use.
Staining of trim was probably my biggest issue.

What ever happened to the 90% process, 10% product thinking.
I would bet that several detailers here could use only OTC products and do a great job. Good enough that very few of us would know if it was OTC or boutique. (Don't think I have ever used the word "boutique" before! :D)
 
CharlesW said:
I think that is quite true. Meguiar's products kept my vehicles looking pretty good for a lot of years. They still could, but some of the things that were a nuisance with Meguiar's don't happen with the products I now use.
Staining of trim was probably my biggest issue.

What ever happened to the 90% process, 10% product thinking.
I would bet that several detailers here could use only OTC products and do a great job. Good enough that very few of us would know if it was OTC or boutique. (Don't think I have ever used the word "boutique" before! :D)
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CharlesW, with the influx of new members to the board, it is probably worth bringing up again. Some new folks seem to get a bit overly concerned about product labels/brands.

As a matter of fact that very thing happened recently (memory don't fail me now) here on our board from one of long time members.

Troy happens to be a resource for some of those OTC products that are not OTC for everyone.
 
CharlesW said:
What ever happened to the 90% process, 10% product thinking.
I would bet that several detailers here could use only OTC products and do a great job. Good enough that very few of us would know if it was OTC or boutique. (Don't think I have ever used the word "boutique" before! :D)
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I firmly believe that about process versus product, and I'd be up for the challenge of using OTC versus boutique and seeing who could really tell a difference. I would venture to say that just looking at photos on the forum, no one would be bale tell. I'd go so far as to say if it was done right, no one could tell just by looking in person either.
 
JP, I thought you might chime in on this. You were the poster whose thread I mentioned above. NXT wasn't it?
 
I have come from a background of using the cheaper bulk products that get sold to dealers and other places who just want something that is cheap and will make the car look good until it gets out the door. Those products are fine for what they are but there is something to be said for high end products.

If I had never tried any of the more expensive products I would not be able to put out the quality of work I do today. A product like Ultima for example seems way too expensive for the amount you get. Never mind that you use less than an ounce per application and it goes on with very little effort. I know that the best polymers on the market go into that product so I know I am doing my best to protect the car as well as make my life easier. I know some of you are saying "Well I have Turtle Wax Ice and it is just as good." No I can promise you it's not and that is not the salesman in me saying that. It is from experience.

Quality of product is very important to me. I've used plenty of products that, no matter how good your process was, you would get crappy results. Having said that, price is not always a good indicator of quality. It's like that with everything.

I'm still using Suave shampoo but I believe there are better products out there and not just because they are more expensive but because of their ingredients and how healthy they make your hair. Does Suave work for my hair? Yes. Would another product that has better ingredients be better for my hair? Yes I believe so.

A lot of the products I use are expensive and even if I didn't sell them and had to pay 3 times as much for them I would because I know the difference they make. I would probably be the same way with hair care if I cared as much about that as I do car care.

For the record. Pictures on the internet are not a good way to judge a product. You can be wowed with just about anything that way.
 
Mr. Clean said:
JP, I thought you might chime in on this. You were the poster whose thread I mentioned above. NXT wasn't it?
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Yeah, when I put NXT on the new truck.

FWIW, I really enjoy using boutique products and I do feel that sometimes they are subtle performance enhancements (smell, easier to use, longer lasting at times, etc), however I just don't think anyone on the planet could come in and tell what was used on a car as long as a good process is followed. There may be subtle nuances between LSP's, and there might be folks out there who can judge that but even that takes a very trained eye on someone who has seen and used a lot of different LSP's.
 
JaredPointer said:
Yeah, when I put NXT on the new truck.

FWIW, I really enjoy using boutique products and I do feel that sometimes they are subtle performance enhancements (smell, easier to use, longer lasting at times, etc), however I just don't think anyone on the planet could come in and tell what was used on a car as long as a good process is followed. There may be subtle nuances between LSP's, and there might be folks out there who can judge that but even that takes a very trained eye on someone who has seen and used a lot of different LSP's.
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I understand what you are saying. Is using a product like Fuzion worth the extra money compared to a product like Natty's? Is using a product like Zymol Royale Glaze worth the extra money over Fuzion? Is Fuzion even better than Natty's? Is Zymol Royale better than Fuzion?

Those are all subjective questions. The same argument can be made of car makes and models. The value of the car is in the eye of the beholder. Yes the cost of a car is based largely on how and what it's made with but there are also other factors.
 
Troy@DetailCity said:
...I know that the best polymers on the market go into that product so I know I am doing my best to protect the car as well as make my life easier. ....
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The problem here Troy is you or I could easily assemble any number of vendors who would argue that thier products contain the "best ingredients". Their products will provide the best/longest/ protectction and the best appearance.

Troy@DetailCity said:
...Quality of product is very important to me. I've used plenty of products that, no matter how good your process was, you would get crappy results. Having said that, price is not always a good indicator of quality. It's like that with everything. ....
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I think most of us here look for quality in our products. I know I also look for value. And as you describe paying a premium for a product (or service) does not guarantee a corresponding ratio of quality over a lesser priced product.

Troy@DetailCity said:
...I'm still using Suave shampoo but I believe there are better products out there and not just because they are more expensive but because of their ingredients and how healthy they make your hair. Does Suave work for my hair? Yes. Would another product that has better ingredients be better for my hair? Yes I believe so.....
Click to expand...
But you could just as easily be wrong. It is widely documented (you know those women are pretty smart consumers) that in the cosmetics industry a substantially lesser priced product will perform as well as, if not better than, a high end "boutique" (that one's for Charles) product.

Troy@DetailCity said:
...For the record. Pictures on the internet are not a good way to judge a product. You can be wowed with just about anything that way.
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I think most of us agree, though it has never stopped people from posting them.:)

JaredPointer said:
...FWIW, I really enjoy using boutique products and I do feel that sometimes they are subtle performance enhancements (smell, easier to use, longer lasting at times, etc), however I just don't think anyone on the planet could come in and tell what was used on a car as long as a good process is followed. There may be subtle nuances between LSP's, and there might be folks out there who can judge that but even that takes a very trained eye on someone who has seen and used a lot of different LSP's.
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:bigups
 
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