new PC user....with questions and pics

[nc_snoskier]

i recently upgraded from a cheap 10in buffer to the PC 7424. i ordered the 6.5 in pad kit from autogeek with an orange light cutting pad, two white polishing pads, and a black finishing pad.



i have always used meguiars products on my vehicles, usualy the 3 step process topped off with a final coat of gold class.



my wifes 03 dark blue honda was looking sad so i decided to try out the PC on it.

i used the orange pad with the cleaner/wax (step one) which says it will remove minor oxidation and swirls, and the white pads for the polish (step two) and the gold class. the swirls and water spots dont look like they were even touched. I applied the products with the speed set on 3.5 to 4.



i guess what i am wondering is this: are the meguiars products that i am using more consumer oriented and just not strong enough to cut through these swirls and water spots? this car is a daily driver and stays outside all the time, so am i expecting too much to remove these completely? should i use a higher speed on the PC?



any help would be appreciated.

 

[sQuashed]

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i guess what i am wondering is this: are the meguiars products that i am using more consumer oriented and just not strong enough to cut through these swirls and water spots? this car is a daily driver and stays outside all the time, so am i expecting too much to remove these completely? should i use a higher speed on the PC?



any help would be appreciated.

I would think the Meg's 3 step would possibly help with the water spots but not the swirls. You need an abrasive polish for the swirls and you need to crank up that PC to get anywhere. Try some Poorboys SSR 2.5 for the swirls with the orange pad and then a milder polish with the white pad afterwards. If you need some 2.5, I have a bunch. Maybe we can trade some product?

 

[White95Max]

Always be skeptical of manufacturers' claims. For example, a well-known gentle polish known as RMG says on the bottle:



contains no abrasives...designed to remove minor paint defects, wet sanding marks, oxidized paint and overspray.



If it had no abrasives, it would not be able to remove minor paint defects, sanding marks, or overspray. "Removing" swirls often means hiding swirls, because the product will have fillers.



Meg's step 1 and 2 both have fillers IIRC, and are both non-abrasive. Which means you will not *remove* any swirls with them. But you can *hide* them a bit.



And even if you were using a swirl-removing polish, you will do very little good while using it on speed 3-4. You NEED to use 5, or preferably, 6.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Meg's step 1 and 2 both have fillers IIRC, and are both non-abrasive. Which means you will not *remove* any swirls with them. But you can *hide* them a bit.

But DC Step 1 does have solvents in it. IIRC, I read here or on MOL that solventy polishes will soften the appearance of swirls by dissolving the sharp edge of the "scratch". So that is a non-abrasive way of "removing" swirls, without filling them. Whether or not that works on enamel paint, I don't know, but I certainly have gotten paint transfer (on wheels) from products like Poorboy's Pro Polish, which seems to be very solventy.

 

[Arved]

Cleaner Wax is, indeed, part of Meguiar's "Consumer line" of products. Now that you've stepped up to a PC, I also suggest that step up to thier (or others) professional line products. I especially encourage you to divorce the "cleaner" and the "wax" in your product selection. Some here will disagree, citing the exciting results they've had with Klasse AIO (a product which I admit I've never tried), but it makes sense to me that you don't want to apply a wax with your abrasives, nor abrasives with your wax.



You should always work from least aggressive to most aggressive. This means you'll also inevitably acquire a range of products as you work your way to more and more aggressive products.



If you've got swirl marks you need to remove, I'd start with Meg's #9 Hi-Tech swirl remover. If that doesn't give you the results you want, and you feel you need to go with more abrasive, move onto Meguiar's #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (DACP). And if that doesn't get-er-done, there's Meguiar's #1 Medium Cut Cleaner, Meguiar's #4 Heavy-Cut Cleaner, and #85 Diamond Cut Compound.



And if that don't get it, it's time to learn the fine art of wet sanding.



And just as you go up in grades of abrasiveness, you also have to work down, to take out the scratches and swirls added by the use of those course abrasives. Think of walking up, then down a set of stairs.



I only use Meguiar's products in the above example because it's a product line I'm familiar with. Many other lines have similar products. They may be better, or not. I'm not sure. Meg's products are easy to obtain locally, and I've gone through thier training, so it's a line I'm comfortable using, and recommending.



Your milage may differ. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. Etc.



Good luck! Hope this helps,

 

[PadawanPrime]

You should always work from least aggressive to most aggressive. This means you'll also inevitably acquire a range of products as you work your way to more and more aggressive products.



If you've got swirl marks you need to remove, I'd start with Meg's #9 Hi-Tech swirl remover. If that doesn't give you the results you want, and you feel you need to go with more abrasive, move onto Meguiar's #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (DACP). And if that doesn't get-er-done, there's Meguiar's #1 Medium Cut Cleaner, Meguiar's #4 Heavy-Cut Cleaner, and #85 Diamond Cut Compound.

Mostly good advice, but this is HONDA paint.



Honda paint is VERY SOFT (probably the softest). I would not start w/ DACP, but rather start first w/ something milder, like #82. Besides if you search, you will see that DACP is reportly hard to work w/ (I haven't used it myself, so YMMV). I would definitely question moving beyond DACP on Honda paint w/ a PC. If you need to move beyond DACP, you probably need a rotary to fully utilize the Meguiar's products mentioned in the above post. I would be too afraid of making a mistake w/ Honda paint w/ products stronger than DACP, and I would take it to a professional detailer to have it done.



BTW, there are a lot of good polishes made by companies other than Meguiar's. If you require OTC products, maybe Mothers PowerPolish. It doesn't dust, and is easy to wipe off.



Peace.

 

[Arved]

Mostly good advice, but this is HONDA paint.

Well, I'll bow to a higher authority. The only Honda's I've had (and detailed) were the 2-wheeled kind. Pretty conventional B/C paint system on those.

BTW, there are a lot of good polishes made by companies other than Meguiar's. If you require OTC products, maybe Mothers PowerPolish. It doesn't dust, and is easy to wipe off.



Peace.

I'm sure there are. I'm more familiar with Meg's line, and so that's what I based my recommendation on, and was merely trying to make a point about how you would work increasingly aggressive, until the defects are finally obliterated, and then back down again with increasingly finer, less abrasive products. I've had good results going straight from 2000-grit wet/dry sandpaper to DACP, and then finer, but that's mostly on CC's I've sprayed myself.



Not being familiar with Mother's Polishes, I refered to this comparison chart, and it looks like Mother's Power Polish is about as abrasive as DACP, or a grade finer, depending on the pad used. But I am surprised at how abrasive DACP is rated - IIRC, this is a "3" on Meg's scale (of 1 to 10). That table provides many alternatives. Pick a few products, and do a search to see what people here think of them.



Sincerely,

 

[Tasty]

Mostly good advice, but this is HONDA paint.



Honda paint is VERY SOFT (probably the softest). I would not start w/ DACP, but rather start first w/ something milder, like #82. Besides if you search, you will see that DACP is reportly hard to work w/ (I haven't used it myself, so YMMV). I would definitely question moving beyond DACP on Honda paint w/ a PC. If you need to move beyond DACP, you probably need a rotary to fully utilize the Meguiar's products mentioned in the above post. I would be too afraid of making a mistake w/ Honda paint w/ products stronger than DACP, and I would take it to a professional detailer to have it done.



BTW, there are a lot of good polishes made by companies other than Meguiar's. If you require OTC products, maybe Mothers PowerPolish. It doesn't dust, and is easy to wipe off.



Peace.

Honda paint is not so delicate that a PC and DACP is going to eat through it. Come on. How would a rotary be a better solution if you are already worried about the PC?? Your post makes no sense.



The deep crystal system is good for the weekend warrior who wants to make a decent change by hand (heck, I even did it once), but if you really want to rid yourself of swirls you will need to step up to some products with balls. Don't be afraid to go to a product like SSR 2.5 or something, and unlike some would have you believe it won't destroy your Honda paint.

 

[PadawanPrime]

Honda paint is not so delicate that a PC and DACP is going to eat through it. Come on. How would a rotary be a better solution if you are already worried about the PC?? Your post makes no sense.



The deep crystal system is good for the weekend warrior who wants to make a decent change by hand (heck, I even did it once), but if you really want to rid yourself of swirls you will need to step up to some products with balls. Don't be afraid to go to a product like SSR 2.5 or something, and unlike some would have you believe it won't destroy your Honda paint.

I never said anything about eating though paint. I said Honda paint is very soft, which it is.



And I wrote to fully utilize in my post. The products above Meguiar's DACP listed (#1, #4, #85) are DESIGNED w/ a rotary in mind, and not a PC. So to fully utilize them, you should use a rotary. That's not to say you can't try using a PC, it's a free country, use whatever you want to use. But please don't twist my words.



Your post is erroneous, so it makes no sense.



Peace.

 

[PadawanPrime]

Well, I'll bow to a higher authority. The only Honda's I've had (and detailed) were the 2-wheeled kind. Pretty conventional B/C paint system on those.







I'm sure there are. I'm more familiar with Meg's line, and so that's what I based my recommendation on, and was merely trying to make a point about how you would work increasingly aggressive, until the defects are finally obliterated, and then back down again with increasingly finer, less abrasive products. I've had good results going straight from 2000-grit wet/dry sandpaper to DACP, and then finer, but that's mostly on CC's I've sprayed myself.



Not being familiar with Mother's Polishes, I refered to this comparison chart, and it looks like Mother's Power Polish is about as abrasive as DACP, or a grade finer, depending on the pad used. But I am surprised at how abrasive DACP is rated - IIRC, this is a "3" on Meg's scale (of 1 to 10). That table provides many alternatives. Pick a few products, and do a search to see what people here think of them.



Sincerely,

Oh, they have updated the chart.



I've NOT used Mother's PowerPolish (YET), but I thought the abrasiveness was dependent on the pad used. If DACP is as abrasive as MPP, then I didn't know, thanks for the 411.



And I didn't mean my post as a criticism. You posted tons of good advice. I meant my post as an addendum from a Honda owner.



If MPP is as abrasive as DACP, then maybe I don't need anything besides MPP & GEPC.



Peace.

 

[nc_snoskier]

thanks everybody. it looks like i'm going to be experimenting with some different products now. if its nice this weekend im going to try and work on the honda again. i appreiate all the help.

 

[Tasty]

I never said anything about eating though paint. I said Honda paint is very soft, which it is.



And I wrote to fully utilize in my post. The products above Meguiar's DACP listed (#1, #4, #85) are DESIGNED w/ a rotary in mind, and not a PC. So to fully utilize them, you should use a rotary. That's not to say you can't try using a PC, it's a free country, use whatever you want to use. But please don't twist my words.



Your post is erroneous, so it makes no sense.



Peace.

I see that after your earlier ERRONEOUS post you took the two extra seconds to read my signature and see that I do indeed own a Honda. Good job. BTW, it's my second.

 

[Arved]

I've NOT used Mother's PowerPolish (YET)

Nor I.

but I thought the abrasiveness was dependent on the pad used.

Overall abrasiveness is probably dependent on pad used (and as reflected in that chart, showing a difference in abrasiveness with 2 different pads). However, in order to make a comparison of the polishes you have to assume the same pad is used. Otherwise, there are so many combinations of polish and pad (and speed, and "dwell time") that comparison would be entirely too complicated. We have to hope for an "apples to apples" comparison.

If DACP is as abrasive as MPP, then I didn't know, thanks for the 411.

Here is another comparison chart, which I didn't include last time, because Mother's products aren't listed (a shame). However, note that DACP is listed as abrasive as SSR 2.5 (which I also haven't tried).



It's courser than I thought. Maybe finer than you thought?



As to the comment that DACP is meant for rotaries rather than orbitals - unfortunately, Meguiares only differentiates between machine and hand application. I took a seminar from Meg's maybe 20-25 years ago, back in the dark ages when rotaries meant big, powerful die-cast machines with huge wool bonnets, and they touted their foam pads as being an improvement not only for the body shops using those behemoths, but the DIYer like many here (including me).

And I didn't mean my post as a criticism. You posted tons of good advice. I meant my post as an addendum from a Honda owner.

Well, I thought it was critical, but that's OK. You have more experience with Honda paint than I do, so obviously your input is more applicable in this matter than mine.

If MPP is as abrasive as DACP, then maybe I don't need anything besides MPP & GEPC.



Peace.

I think that, if you have the opportunity to try and the willingness to experiment, you should. I've been in a sort of "Meguiares rut" because the line has always been extremely easy for me to obtain OTC. That is, once I find an automotive paint supplier locally. When I moved from the SF Bay Area 10 years ago, it took me a while to find a local automotive paint supplier here in Jacksonville, FL. What was difficult, was that they were a Sherwin-Williams automotive paint store, and I was used to Dupont, PPG, and (to a much lesser extent) R+M products, so I had a new line of paint to learn. But they had a good stock of Meg's products, and what they didn't have in stock, they were eager to order for me. In comparison, ordering unknown product lines over the internet has stretched my comfort zone (but I'm glad I found products like Colinite, Zaino, and "Bombs Away" metal polish through the internet).



Warmest regards,

 

[wannafbody]

I believeMothers Power Polish is less abrasive than 83-probably closer to 80

 

[PadawanPrime]

Nor I.







Overall abrasiveness is probably dependent on pad used (and as reflected in that chart, showing a difference in abrasiveness with 2 different pads). However, in order to make a comparison of the polishes you have to assume the same pad is used. Otherwise, there are so many combinations of polish and pad (and speed, and "dwell time") that comparison would be entirely too complicated. We have to hope for an "apples to apples" comparison.







Here is another comparison chart, which I didn't include last time, because Mother's products aren't listed (a shame). However, note that DACP is listed as abrasive as SSR 2.5 (which I also haven't tried).



It's courser than I thought. Maybe finer than you thought?



As to the comment that DACP is meant for rotaries rather than orbitals - unfortunately, Meguiares only differentiates between machine and hand application. I took a seminar from Meg's maybe 20-25 years ago, back in the dark ages when rotaries meant big, powerful die-cast machines with huge wool bonnets, and they touted their foam pads as being an improvement not only for the body shops using those behemoths, but the DIYer like many here (including me).







Well, I thought it was critical, but that's OK. You have more experience with Honda paint than I do, so obviously your input is more applicable in this matter than mine.







I think that, if you have the opportunity to try and the willingness to experiment, you should. I've been in a sort of "Meguiares rut" because the line has always been extremely easy for me to obtain OTC. That is, once I find an automotive paint supplier locally. When I moved from the SF Bay Area 10 years ago, it took me a while to find a local automotive paint supplier here in Jacksonville, FL. What was difficult, was that they were a Sherwin-Williams automotive paint store, and I was used to Dupont, PPG, and (to a much lesser extent) R+M products, so I had a new line of paint to learn. But they had a good stock of Meg's products, and what they didn't have in stock, they were eager to order for me. In comparison, ordering unknown product lines over the internet has stretched my comfort zone (but I'm glad I found products like Colinite, Zaino, and "Bombs Away" metal polish through the internet).



Warmest regards,

Here's where I got my impressions on the strength of MPP.



http://www.roadfly.com/magazine/16/mothers_wax.3.html



Quote: " I had a few deep scratches in the rear tailgate that required a stronger product, but the Mothers® PowerPolish didn't disappoint me. I'd place its strength at just a tad stronger than a traditional swirl mark remover product - perfect for most typical paint cleaning situations." Steve Litscher, Editor-in-Chief



I trust Steve from Guru Reports, so based on the review, I'm going to try Mothers PowerPolish the next time I polish the Honda. So I thought it was a tad stronger than #83, based on the review, and weaker than DACP.



I already have S100 SEPC, which is the same as GEPC.



Peace.

 

[06E90]

When I bought my PC I first used it with MPP and a Meguiars polishing pad. I found it to be very user friendly and would recommend it to someone new to polishing with the PC. Use it at a speed of about 5.5 and make sure you work it long enough to break it down, almost until it dries. I had good swirl correction this way. I've also tried it with a cutting pad and it does a very good job.

 

[nc_snoskier]

i bought some mpp and megs hi-tech yellow 26. i decided to try it out on my explorer first. i figured with it being white, it would be easier to hide my mistakes. i used the mpp with the orange lake country pad and set the pc to 5.5-6. i must say that i think it did pretty well. there are still several scratches in my hood but they are not near as noticable.



both the mpp and the megs hi-tech 26 were easy to work with.



i ordered some clearkote vanilla moose and i want to use it in between the polish and wax on the honda.



does this sound like a decent plan?

 

[White95Max]

VM will add wetness and fillers to the finish. And yes, between the polish and wax is the proper time to use VM.



BTW, make sure to apply some pressure when using the PC. You will make much more progress.