New Paint / Which Product

baker

baker

New member
Got a ding taken from the front of my hood and the hood was re- clearcoated. After the second try I was happy with their work, no swirls or holograms. 30 days cure time, according to the shop, before wax or sealant, feel the withdrawal symptoms. Which of the following products, in your opinion, is the best to use in the meantime? Einzett Express Polish, Meguiars #5 New Car Glaze, or Menzerna Final Polish II? Please limit your answers to these three products as they are what I have to use now. Thanks for any input.
 
BAKER- At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, your shop is wrong; all the paint manufacturers say 90-120 days of curing time (there's a thread on here somewhere with their actual responses, MirrorFinishMan posted it after he contacted them).



Anyhow...use the #5, it's great for this and I'm currently using it myself on some freshly spotted-in areas. You'll have to reapply it after every wash, but it sure is user-friendly stuff.



You can use the FPII to do gentle correction if necessary, but I'd wait a little while so the paint has a chance to harden up some more. The guy who just did work on my Jag (gee, I'm sure having a lot of paintwork done these days!) found that even after a few weeks it was still too soft for him to do the final polishing and he uses FPII for that.



Don't use the Express at this time as it contains natural and synthetic waxes. Good enough stuff, but only for after it's finished outgassing.
 
Bence said:
FK1 2180 is officially can be put on new repaints...
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Bence- Did their explanation of how it allows curing/outgassing satisfy you? The only explanations I've heard were lacking in objective details and relied upon (what I considered) spurious analogies such as "it's like GoreTex for paint" :think:



I'm thinking about using FK 2180 on the recently repainted rocker panels of my wife's A8...I don't care all *that* much if their sorta-satin finish paint reaches its maximum potential hardness; I'm leaning towards being more concerned about it having some kind of real protection. So it's not like I'm all anit-FK 2180 or anything, I just wish I had some real data about how/why it's fresh-paint-friendly :nixweiss
 
Accumulator, I've been told that its cured structure doesn't interfere with outgassing. How? I have no idea. Proprietary information.

Why I *trust* them so blindly? Well, using their products in the last 1.5 years, I think that they tell the truth on their labels. The products work as indicated, and EXACTLY as indicated. The fact that they are mainly geared towards the OEM industry, and they are openly say that it is not just possible, but even recommended, that is enough for me.



I use to be more critical searching for more exact answers to certain questions, methods, etc., but in this case it is/was somehow enough for me. Call it gullible biorobotics or whatever, but their products were always working honestly.
 
Bence- OK, I understand. Sometimes it's perfectly reasonable to take somebody's word for something, especially when there's no evidence to base the decision upon.



My opinion of FK is different from yours, based on things they've told me about competitor's products (ones with which I have fairly extensive first-hand experience). And for some reason the whole "fresh paint curing" issue is something I get very serious about :o So I guess I'm going to be a pretty hard sell on this one until I see some kind of "proof".



FWIW, some people here, whose opinions I certainly respect, have told me that Zaino has also worked fine for them on repaints. I'd never call them liars or say that they don't know what they're talking about/experiencing...but I still continue to err on the side of caution, and *erring* it may well be.



I *am* going to consider the FK 2180 for those rockers though, not that I'll ever know if it did/didn't interfere with any outgassing due to the nature of the paint in question.



Gee if I really cared all that much I'd have a scrap panel shot with some really hard paint and do sections with FK 2180, Zaino, and nothing and compare them after a few months, but I guess I don't care *that* much ;)
 
Yeah FK told me the same thing. OK to use 2180. But I used Mg #5 for 30 days then used whatever I wanted.
 
BTW Accumulator, I'm the one that's guilty of coining the phrase "Goretex for paint", I can't blame FK1 for that one. I was trying to come up with a short analogy for how they described why 2180 was safe for new paint.
 
I used a lot of sealant on new repaints back in the 90s. It was the AIO-like popular one, which is marketed under several brand names. Its label also recommended it on new paints - that's why I was using it specifically. It never caused trouble, but I must admit, the hobby level detailing vs. Autopian is quite a bit different. However, it was used on Audis, Citroëns, VWs, Hondas, on my old Daimler Double Six and even on a Trabant, and everything was perfectly fine.



I think lots of other sealants would be OK to use, but the obvious liability issues keep the manufacturers/rebottlers mute.



I don't know what is behind the curtain chemically, but somehow I *feel* that the exact same attribute that "allows" a bird bomb to penetrate a sealant faster than a heavy wax, allows (a bit) more outgassing, and doesn't drown the curing process.
 
I ask this question at the Midwest Street Rod to a paint rep that works for one of the major paint that has retired with over 35 years and 25 years in the lab. When I asked him about out gassing he brought me over to a panel with 12 layers of clear coat that was applied in just 2 days and ask me if I thought solvents could out gas though 11 layers

of clear coat and be stopped by a micron of any paint protection system. I said that I was told carnauba would seal the surface and not allow paint to out gas – he said you are not going to stop the solvents come to the surface as liquid and then evaporate or out gas and the day you see liquid solvent blisters being held in by a carnauba wax please let him know. I said years ago they use to say carnauba were body shop safe so what changed – he agreed that they were considered body shop safe for over 40 years and it wasn’t until the early 90’s that they were removed. I ask why – he stated that most though it is was the change in paints but really it was the addition of polymers to increase the durability of the carnaubas. I ask him what is the problem with polymers and new paint – He said that products that do a physical or chemical bond to the paint should be avoided until the paint because at least 80 to 90% inert. I ask him how long that was - he said repaints that depends on a lot outside factors but for his years in experience 30 days on the really good conditions to 90 on poor conditions but it was better to error on the safe side. I ask him what is safe on new paint and he said check with your painter but anything that does not create a physical / chemical bond to the paint. What happens if you do apply bond type paint sealant to new paint – what he said that the surface is still has not become inert and during bonding process the product can penetrate the top couple microns of the paint surface and cause slight cloudiness and color shift most noticeable on panel repaints. We were talking about “Just Repaints� and he agreed that new cars can be waxed/sealant as soon as you get them. Just infomation from another source - take it leave it!
 
MDRX8 said:
Sorry diagree Just got it painted. Why polish fresh paint? Let it cure before polishing. Use Meg #5.... JMHO
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Why not? I have wet sanded new paint, no problem? If you have defects it´s much easier to take em out beofre the paint cures.



But if the paint is fresh and not damaged? Why even apply anything? Wait until it cure and then wax.
 
Accumulator said:
BAKER- At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, your shop is wrong; all the paint manufacturers say 90-120 days of curing time (there's a thread on here somewhere with their actual responses, MirrorFinishMan posted it after he contacted them).
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I hate to disagree with you Accumulator, but any paint which meets spec's as a refinish material for the big three is ready to be waxed within 12 hours. I couldn't tell you all the waxes/sealants that are compatabile, or all brands of refinish material, I can only tell you what Chrysler uses and would be more than happy to share it with you in private if you're interested.



The reason being that sometimes the factory has to refinish panels by hand, using standard refinish materials, not the same as the factory robot applied finishes.
 
gbackus- I only know from Audis when it comes to the specifics of any of this (officially OKed refinish material) stuff and I'm sure not gonna :argue about something I don't know about :D



AFAIK AutoInt/ValueGuard is still the detailing/reconditioning product supplier to Daimler/Chrysler (this is assuming we're talking about the same stuff but they were last summer when D/C had them relabel some of their "MOPAR"-label products; Ron Ketchum gave me some old-label stuff that they were gonna have to repackage). When it comes to what of their stuff is OK to use (and when) I'll go with whatever Ron and his guys say. I'm sure not gonna argue with certain experts in the field even if I don't always take their advice personally.



LET-ME-BE-CLEAR Disclaimer: I recommend what's worked for me and what has been directly explained to me to my satisfaction; I don't claim to have a monopoly on the correct answers to this stuff. In the face of conflicting info, people have to make their own decisions and (for the umpteenth time ;) because IMO I can't overstate this) I err on the side of caution.



DennisH- Interesting. There's a lot of info on this subject and sometimes I find it hard to reconcile it all.



I figure (again, perhaps incorrectly) that there's a connection between the time it takes for the paint to achieve its maximum potential hardness and the time before it's safe to wax/whatever it. I did a lot of polishing on the S8 over a few months after its deer-repair, and its paint (baked, etc.) got *much* harder over a surprisingly long period of time; it was still hardening up after over two months. It was interesting to note what differences in product/etc. I had to employ as it got harder.



porta- Maybe it's a difference in the "fineness of the finish" :nixweiss While a lot of paint gets wetsanded shortly after shooting, somtimes it just won't polish up right until it cures/hardens. E.G., the paint that got shot on the Jag a few weeks ago is still too soft for FPII (!) and my painter estimates at least a month until it can be buffed to the desired finish.



OTOH I've polished week-old paint with no problems before too :confused: There are just *so* many apparent variables to this stuff...guess that's part of why I always err on the side of caution.



Bence- Yeah, the liability issue does quite possibly (probably ;) ) factor in. The paint makers can duck a lot of issues by picking an extended timeframe.
 
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