imported_Sullybob
Member
Jim, very informative post. Much of what you posted about the local and state governments was on the news this morning.
Anthony, I think it goes way beyond neglect.
Anthony, I think it goes way beyond neglect.
New Orleans Evac Plan For Hurricane
- Thread starter Anthony O.
- Start date
General Lee
New member
This is a copy and paste of what is going around, I am not the author. Take this info for what its worth. Some of it may be true, some may be bull.....
> In case you aren’t familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work.
> The chain of responsiblity for the protection of the citizens in New
> Orleans is:
>
> 1. The Mayor
> 2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political appointee of
> the Governor who reports to the Governor)
> 3. The Governor
> 4. The Head of Homeland Security
> 5. The President
>
> What did each do?
>
> 1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he announced
> a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The he failed to
> provide transportation for those without transport even though he had
> hundreds of buses at his disposal.
>
> 2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan
> for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames
> the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political
> appointees)
>
> 3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS
> BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal
> troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit.
>
> 4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to be
> ready when the Governor called for them
>
> 5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a
> disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal
> assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.
>
> Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the
> local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL
> GOVERNMENT.
>
> The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt
> (democrat) government going all the way back to Huey Long.
>
> Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this city
> for decades, and where has it gone, but into the pockets of the politicos
> and their friends.
>
> Decades of socialist government in New Orleans has sapped all self
> reliance from the community, and made them dependent upon government for
> every little thing.
>
> Political correctness and a lack of will to fight crime have created the
> single most corrupt police force in the country, and has permitted gang
> violence to flourish.
>
> The sad thing is that there are many poor folks who have suffered and died
> needlessly because those that they voted into office failed them.
>
> For those who missed item 5 (where the President’s level of accountability
> is discussed), it is made more clear in a New Orleans Times-Picayune
> article dated August 28:
>
> NEW ORLEANS (AP) � In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a
> mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray
> Nagin.
>
> Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded
> tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last
> resort for people to go, including the Superdome.
>
> The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave
> the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because
> airlines had already cancelled all flights.
>
> Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said
> President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation
> for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. (emphasis mine)
>
> The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin’s court to carry out the evacuation
> order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all
> services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a city
> emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and failing
> to make full use of resources available within city limits, Nagin and his
> administration f**ked up.
>
> Mayor Nagin and his emergency sidekick Terry Ebbert have displayed lethal,
> mind boggling incompetence before, during and after Katrina.
>
> […]
>
> As for Mayor Nagin, he and his profile in pathetic leadership police chief
> should resign as well. That city’s government is incompetent from one end
> to the other. The people of New Orleans deserve better than this crowd of
> clowns is capable of giving them.
>
> If you’re keeping track, these boobs let 569 buses that could have carried
> 33,350 people out of New Orleans–in one trip–get ruined in the floods.
> Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would have been
> if they’d bothered to follow it
> In case you aren’t familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work.
> The chain of responsiblity for the protection of the citizens in New
> Orleans is:
>
> 1. The Mayor
> 2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political appointee of
> the Governor who reports to the Governor)
> 3. The Governor
> 4. The Head of Homeland Security
> 5. The President
>
> What did each do?
>
> 1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he announced
> a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The he failed to
> provide transportation for those without transport even though he had
> hundreds of buses at his disposal.
>
> 2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan
> for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames
> the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political
> appointees)
>
> 3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS
> BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal
> troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit.
>
> 4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to be
> ready when the Governor called for them
>
> 5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a
> disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal
> assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.
>
> Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the
> local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL
> GOVERNMENT.
>
> The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt
> (democrat) government going all the way back to Huey Long.
>
> Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this city
> for decades, and where has it gone, but into the pockets of the politicos
> and their friends.
>
> Decades of socialist government in New Orleans has sapped all self
> reliance from the community, and made them dependent upon government for
> every little thing.
>
> Political correctness and a lack of will to fight crime have created the
> single most corrupt police force in the country, and has permitted gang
> violence to flourish.
>
> The sad thing is that there are many poor folks who have suffered and died
> needlessly because those that they voted into office failed them.
>
> For those who missed item 5 (where the President’s level of accountability
> is discussed), it is made more clear in a New Orleans Times-Picayune
> article dated August 28:
>
> NEW ORLEANS (AP) � In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a
> mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray
> Nagin.
>
> Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded
> tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last
> resort for people to go, including the Superdome.
>
> The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave
> the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because
> airlines had already cancelled all flights.
>
> Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said
> President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation
> for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. (emphasis mine)
>
> The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin’s court to carry out the evacuation
> order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all
> services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a city
> emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and failing
> to make full use of resources available within city limits, Nagin and his
> administration f**ked up.
>
> Mayor Nagin and his emergency sidekick Terry Ebbert have displayed lethal,
> mind boggling incompetence before, during and after Katrina.
>
> […]
>
> As for Mayor Nagin, he and his profile in pathetic leadership police chief
> should resign as well. That city’s government is incompetent from one end
> to the other. The people of New Orleans deserve better than this crowd of
> clowns is capable of giving them.
>
> If you’re keeping track, these boobs let 569 buses that could have carried
> 33,350 people out of New Orleans–in one trip–get ruined in the floods.
> Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would have been
> if they’d bothered to follow it
Mr. Clean said:
jfelbab said:
As I clearly stated with the disclaimer, at the time of my post, I was unable to confirm the numbers from that news report. I have since found some numbers which explain how the report was either mis-reported, or I did not process the information correctly.
According to Reuters (8/30/2005) The Pentagon has sent about 40 percent of Mississippi's National Guard force to Iraq and 35 percent of Louisiana's -- a combined total of about 6,000 troops.
According to Knight Ridder (8/29/05) More than 850 National Guardsmen in Mississippi have been activated around the state for hurricane disaster work.
jfelbab said:
The report on the Michigan NG presence came directly from Trent Lott’s 9/6/05 press conference (I’m sure public record). Oddly enough they were the only NG unit mentioned, in spite of your information (unknown source). In this case, I’ll probably go with Mr. Lott’s.
jfelbab said:
Blame FEMA? I merely posed the question of why the delayed response. I know that I’m not the only one curious. It seems clear to most that the response time was not timely or efficient. The effectiveness of the response is yet to be determined. But let me let FEMA tell you what they are,
jfelbab said:
I listened to his press conference and never heard anything that remotely resembled your assertion.
jfelbab said:
I’ll suggest that you take a strong dose of your own prescription before prescribing to others. And of course the it is always best to read an entire post before responding.
Mr. Clean said:
Anthony O.
New member
I understand it now from the Salvation Army and the Red Cross that the state did not allow them in. They were there ready but were not given the green light.
The state of LA must ask for FEMA, correct?
The state is also in control of the NG, not the Feds, correct?
As the days go by it seems clearer that the state officials will be taking the brunt of the blame on this disaster.
Anthony
The state of LA must ask for FEMA, correct?
The state is also in control of the NG, not the Feds, correct?
As the days go by it seems clearer that the state officials will be taking the brunt of the blame on this disaster.
Anthony
jfelbab
New member
Mr. Clean said:
The total gardsmen deployed to Iraq are correct but the percentages you quoted were based on the Army National Guard only and didn't include the Air National Guard headcount.
My info came from NORTHCOM and can be collaborated on the web. The info I posted was accurate as of 9/3/05. The guardsman headcount by state is a fluid number changing hour by hour. They are compiling a detailed state-by-state timeline showing what assets were on the ground assisting in Katrina relief. There are some early reports already on the web from other sources.
According to AFPS, the day before Hurricane Katrina came ashore in Mississippi, Aug. 29, the Mississippi National Guard had been planning for the likelihood of a disaster. Two days before the storm hit, the Mississippi NG began activating units, primarily military police and engineers.
Officials initially activated 750 guardsmen. Members of the forward EOC, a team that moves into a disaster area and coordinates operations with other agencies, were also notified and reported for duty by noon the day before the storm landed. Less than a day after the storm slammed into the coast, 1,150 additional guardsmen were activated.
According to a spokesman for the Mississippi National Guard, Kentucky, Tennessee, Maryland, Delaware, Arkansas, California, Alabama, Missouri, Colorado, Ohio, New York, Georgia and several other states all volunteered their personnel and equipment. Many showed up as soon as Sept. 1.
You see, this was clearly after the Mississippi NG was on the scene. Your friend Trent was in error if he said Michigan NG was there before the Mississippi NG.
You needn't bother trying to lecture me on who FEMA is. They, as I previously pointed out, use the resources of the state and other organizations to coordinate the disaster relief. It was not FEMA's fault for the delay. The governor of LA would not allow FEMA to take charge initially. The state delayed that relief effort. The state barred the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army from delivering aid, not FEMA. So to answer your question as to why relief appeared delayed, it was the State of LA that is the primary cause. The state of LA had a breakdown of leadership. This has already been reported by numerous news organizations. Compounding the impression of delay is that many people have a great deal of difficulty in grasping the immense scope of damage caused by Katrina. 90,000 square miles is too large an area to provide immediate relief to everyone. Yet having the press in the scene in NO pleading for help riles us all up. When the help doesn't come we all want answers. In this case the answer points to LA state officials.
My post was not meant to take you to task for anything but to correct some your your erroneous assumptions. Basically I pointed out with FACTS that the military was not overextended due to our forces being in Iraq as you implied.
You slammed Mr. Brown, FEMA's director and I pointed out concisely that FEMA was hamstrung by the State of LA.
Sorry to burst your bubble but this disaster was not Bush's fault. Nor was the delay in response his fault. You can go back to your counting of how many vacation days he takes now. :wall
Nice try, but I stand by the facts I posted. :LOLOL
MSOsr
New member
Interesting article in Human Events Online: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=8968
The Left's False Assault on President Bush
by Peter Ferrara
Posted Sep 8, 2005
No one anticipated that the aftermath of Katrina would include a false and ignorant tidal wave of calumny against President Bush. Conservatives beware, because the goal here is to politically disable the President, and the conservative agenda along with him.
A few basic facts will help to detox the political environment. First, FEMA is not an agency of first responders. It is not the agency responsible for bringing people bottles of water and trays of fresh food, or transporting them out of harm’s way. It also has zero law enforcement authority, or personnel.
These first responder jobs are the responsibility of local and state government -- city police and firemen, city transportation and emergency services personnel, state police, and ultimately the state National Guard.
FEMA has always been primarily a Federal financing agency, providing funding to the locals after the crisis hits to help them respond and rebuild. That is why FEMA’s website baldly states don’t expect them to show up with their aid until 3 or 4 days after the disaster strikes.
Moreover, the National Guard is under the command of the Governor of each state, not the President. The President can Federalize control over a state’s guard on his own order, but doing so without a Governor’s consent to deal with an in state natural disaster would be a supreme insult to the Governor and the state. In addition, using Federal troops for local police actions is against the law and has been since the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.
With this background, let’s examine who did what in response to Katrina. President Bush declared the entire Gulf Coast, including New Orleans and Louisiana, a Federal disaster area days before the hurricane hit, to enable Federal aid to get there sooner.
The disaster that struck New Orleans did not become apparent until the morning of Tuesday, August 29, as the levees broke after the brunt of the storm had passed. But that very day, the Army Corps of Engineers was already working on levee repair. And the Coast Guard was already in the air with helicopters rescuing people from rooftops, ultimately employing 300 choppers. These are both Federal agencies under Bush’s command.
In addition, before the end of that week, Bush had already pushed through Congress and signed an emergency aid package of $10.5 billion for the Gulf Coast region.
Now what about Governor Kathleen Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin? President Bush had to get on the phone two days before the hurricane to plead with the Governor to order a mandatory evacuation. In response, she dithered and delayed. Mayor Nagin also had full authority, and responsibility, to order an evacuation. He dithered and delayed as well.
The city’s own written evacuation plan requires the city to provide transportation for the evacuation of those without access to vehicles or with disabilities. But Nagin did absolutely nothing to carry out this responsibility.
Instead, hundreds of city metro and school buses were ruined in the flood, as Nagin left them in low lying areas. Jesse Jackson and Kanye West, do you think Nagin cares about poor blacks in New Orleans?
Nagin asked residents who couldn’t get out to go to the Superdome. It was his responsibility to then provide water, food, portable bathrooms, and security for them. But, again, Nagin did nothing to carry out this responsibility in service to the poor blacks who primarily exercised this option.
Incredibly, we now know that even though the Red Cross was ready to bring food and water to the Superdome the day after the storm, Governor Blanco actually barred them from doing so! She didn’t want to encourage the survivors to stay at the Superdome due to such relief, but somehow thought they should disperse back into the flooded city once the hurricane passed.
President Bush pleaded with Governor Blanco that same day after the storm to get the National Guard into New Orleans. Not much happened. Seeing this, he asked her to give him Federal authority over the state’s Guard. She refused. As a result, the Guard didn’t show up in force in the city until near the end of the week.
Meanwhile, the New Orleans police department, under the authority of Mayor Nagin, collapsed, with hundreds of officers walking off the job, and others involved in the looting themselves. As a result, gangs of criminals took over parts of the city, robbing, raping, and even murdering survivors, looting stores and restaurants, and absurdly shooting at relief workers and vehicles. Blanco failed to use the state police or National Guard to maintain law and order as well.
But this mayhem in the poor, black neighborhoods is not unique to the hurricane aftermath. With only 1500 officers in the city police force at full strength, the residents of these heavily crime ridden neighborhoods have been regularly left to fend for themselves for security as a matter of city policy. The city basically has just enough police to secure the tourist and downtown business districts. Again, who is it that doesn’t care for poor, black people?
President Bush finally had to order in 7,000 Federal troops, including the 82nd Airborne, on Friday to get stranded residents out of the Superdome, and the Convention Center, where Nagin had also completely abdicated responsibility. These troops led the way to restoring law and order. This was of dubious legal authority, but with the total collapse of the state and local governments in dealing with the crisis, what choice did he have?
Then there was Aaron Broussard, head of Jefferson Parish just outside New Orleans. He broke down bawling on national television over the deaths of nursing home residents in his jurisdiction on Friday, blaming President Bush and a slow Federal response. But it was Broussard, with authority over the parish’s police, fire, ambulance and other emergency services, who had failed them. When asked why he had done nothing to help them, he lamely said he had been told the cavalry was coming from Washington.
Again, however, FEMA is not a first responder agency. The first responders are Broussard’s local bureaucracy. It is not the U.S. Calvary’s job to bring bottles of fresh water from Washington to nursing home residents in Jefferson parish, Louisiana.
Finally, we have not seen public officials in Mississippi, which was hit even harder by the hurricane itself, or Alabama, crying on television or complaining about the lack of Federal aid. They properly mobilized their local police, fire, transportation, ambulance and emergency services, and the state National Guard, to serve their roles as first responders. Unlike Blanco in Louisiana, Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, Republican, announced looters would be shot on sight. That maintained law and order, without Federal troops.
Let’s shortcircuit the sickening and dopey political posturing now just beginning in Washington. President Bush organized the largest and quickest Federal mobilization in response to a natural disaster in U.S. history. Blanco, Nagin, and Broussard just need to resign in disgrace, as thousands of their own constituents died because of their misconduct.
Mr. Ferrara Ferrara is a Senior Fellow at the Institute for Policy Innovation, and Director of Domestic Policy at the Free Enterprise Fund.
The Left's False Assault on President Bush
by Peter Ferrara
Posted Sep 8, 2005
No one anticipated that the aftermath of Katrina would include a false and ignorant tidal wave of calumny against President Bush. Conservatives beware, because the goal here is to politically disable the President, and the conservative agenda along with him.
A few basic facts will help to detox the political environment. First, FEMA is not an agency of first responders. It is not the agency responsible for bringing people bottles of water and trays of fresh food, or transporting them out of harm’s way. It also has zero law enforcement authority, or personnel.
These first responder jobs are the responsibility of local and state government -- city police and firemen, city transportation and emergency services personnel, state police, and ultimately the state National Guard.
FEMA has always been primarily a Federal financing agency, providing funding to the locals after the crisis hits to help them respond and rebuild. That is why FEMA’s website baldly states don’t expect them to show up with their aid until 3 or 4 days after the disaster strikes.
Moreover, the National Guard is under the command of the Governor of each state, not the President. The President can Federalize control over a state’s guard on his own order, but doing so without a Governor’s consent to deal with an in state natural disaster would be a supreme insult to the Governor and the state. In addition, using Federal troops for local police actions is against the law and has been since the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.
With this background, let’s examine who did what in response to Katrina. President Bush declared the entire Gulf Coast, including New Orleans and Louisiana, a Federal disaster area days before the hurricane hit, to enable Federal aid to get there sooner.
The disaster that struck New Orleans did not become apparent until the morning of Tuesday, August 29, as the levees broke after the brunt of the storm had passed. But that very day, the Army Corps of Engineers was already working on levee repair. And the Coast Guard was already in the air with helicopters rescuing people from rooftops, ultimately employing 300 choppers. These are both Federal agencies under Bush’s command.
In addition, before the end of that week, Bush had already pushed through Congress and signed an emergency aid package of $10.5 billion for the Gulf Coast region.
Now what about Governor Kathleen Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin? President Bush had to get on the phone two days before the hurricane to plead with the Governor to order a mandatory evacuation. In response, she dithered and delayed. Mayor Nagin also had full authority, and responsibility, to order an evacuation. He dithered and delayed as well.
The city’s own written evacuation plan requires the city to provide transportation for the evacuation of those without access to vehicles or with disabilities. But Nagin did absolutely nothing to carry out this responsibility.
Instead, hundreds of city metro and school buses were ruined in the flood, as Nagin left them in low lying areas. Jesse Jackson and Kanye West, do you think Nagin cares about poor blacks in New Orleans?
Nagin asked residents who couldn’t get out to go to the Superdome. It was his responsibility to then provide water, food, portable bathrooms, and security for them. But, again, Nagin did nothing to carry out this responsibility in service to the poor blacks who primarily exercised this option.
Incredibly, we now know that even though the Red Cross was ready to bring food and water to the Superdome the day after the storm, Governor Blanco actually barred them from doing so! She didn’t want to encourage the survivors to stay at the Superdome due to such relief, but somehow thought they should disperse back into the flooded city once the hurricane passed.
President Bush pleaded with Governor Blanco that same day after the storm to get the National Guard into New Orleans. Not much happened. Seeing this, he asked her to give him Federal authority over the state’s Guard. She refused. As a result, the Guard didn’t show up in force in the city until near the end of the week.
Meanwhile, the New Orleans police department, under the authority of Mayor Nagin, collapsed, with hundreds of officers walking off the job, and others involved in the looting themselves. As a result, gangs of criminals took over parts of the city, robbing, raping, and even murdering survivors, looting stores and restaurants, and absurdly shooting at relief workers and vehicles. Blanco failed to use the state police or National Guard to maintain law and order as well.
But this mayhem in the poor, black neighborhoods is not unique to the hurricane aftermath. With only 1500 officers in the city police force at full strength, the residents of these heavily crime ridden neighborhoods have been regularly left to fend for themselves for security as a matter of city policy. The city basically has just enough police to secure the tourist and downtown business districts. Again, who is it that doesn’t care for poor, black people?
President Bush finally had to order in 7,000 Federal troops, including the 82nd Airborne, on Friday to get stranded residents out of the Superdome, and the Convention Center, where Nagin had also completely abdicated responsibility. These troops led the way to restoring law and order. This was of dubious legal authority, but with the total collapse of the state and local governments in dealing with the crisis, what choice did he have?
Then there was Aaron Broussard, head of Jefferson Parish just outside New Orleans. He broke down bawling on national television over the deaths of nursing home residents in his jurisdiction on Friday, blaming President Bush and a slow Federal response. But it was Broussard, with authority over the parish’s police, fire, ambulance and other emergency services, who had failed them. When asked why he had done nothing to help them, he lamely said he had been told the cavalry was coming from Washington.
Again, however, FEMA is not a first responder agency. The first responders are Broussard’s local bureaucracy. It is not the U.S. Calvary’s job to bring bottles of fresh water from Washington to nursing home residents in Jefferson parish, Louisiana.
Finally, we have not seen public officials in Mississippi, which was hit even harder by the hurricane itself, or Alabama, crying on television or complaining about the lack of Federal aid. They properly mobilized their local police, fire, transportation, ambulance and emergency services, and the state National Guard, to serve their roles as first responders. Unlike Blanco in Louisiana, Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, Republican, announced looters would be shot on sight. That maintained law and order, without Federal troops.
Let’s shortcircuit the sickening and dopey political posturing now just beginning in Washington. President Bush organized the largest and quickest Federal mobilization in response to a natural disaster in U.S. history. Blanco, Nagin, and Broussard just need to resign in disgrace, as thousands of their own constituents died because of their misconduct.
Mr. Ferrara Ferrara is a Senior Fellow at the Institute for Policy Innovation, and Director of Domestic Policy at the Free Enterprise Fund.
Anthony O.
New member
That's an intense post, thanks MSO..enjoyed the read.
Anthony
Anthony
Politics over duty
This is a post from a fellow over in Merritt Is, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit. I think all of Nagin's pomp and posturing is going
to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light. On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it
under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.
President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the
Insurgency Act).
Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.
Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.
After a personal plea from the President, Mayor Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still
refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana
did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before
the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to
use before the disaster. Throw in that over half the federal aid of the
past decade to New Orleans for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal governmet for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may
have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or
coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.
The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment
of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the
President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses
at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.
This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more
suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to
God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.
This is a post from a fellow over in Merritt Is, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit. I think all of Nagin's pomp and posturing is going
to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light. On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it
under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.
President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the
Insurgency Act).
Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.
Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.
After a personal plea from the President, Mayor Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still
refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana
did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before
the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to
use before the disaster. Throw in that over half the federal aid of the
past decade to New Orleans for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal governmet for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may
have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or
coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.
The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment
of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the
President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses
at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.
This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more
suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to
God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.
:clap: Even while whining about the Bush bashing from the left, the right's spin machine works overtime.
I can't help but laugh at remarks depicting Bush pleading nay problably begging to be let in to take care of the victims.
There are still comments which indicate that there is confusion about what FEMA is and does.
This quote was also most interesting...
Wow! Bush did this? And if the government's response and performance was this stellar, then please explain why Brown has been "sent home"? Why are the cries of outrage at being heard from both sides of the aisle? Based on some of the things I've read, I'm sure someone can be make up a neat little story.
In the final analysis (whenever that comes), there will be many people/entities whose efforts will be found to have fallen short of what should have or could have been done to lessen some of the problems experienced. Failures from both Democrats and Republicans. I know that will be a bitter pill to swallow for some. We can only hope that lessons are learned and processes improved for the next time.
Meanwhile, I would say that about the only people who are doing anything worth anything for the NO evacuees are all located in Texas. The city, county, state, and private individuals also seem to be doing the best jobs. And they are doing it in spite of government funding which will be no doubt slow to appear.
I can't help but laugh at remarks depicting Bush pleading nay problably begging to be let in to take care of the victims.
There are still comments which indicate that there is confusion about what FEMA is and does.
This quote was also most interesting...
Wow! Bush did this? And if the government's response and performance was this stellar, then please explain why Brown has been "sent home"? Why are the cries of outrage at being heard from both sides of the aisle? Based on some of the things I've read, I'm sure someone can be make up a neat little story.
In the final analysis (whenever that comes), there will be many people/entities whose efforts will be found to have fallen short of what should have or could have been done to lessen some of the problems experienced. Failures from both Democrats and Republicans. I know that will be a bitter pill to swallow for some. We can only hope that lessons are learned and processes improved for the next time.
Meanwhile, I would say that about the only people who are doing anything worth anything for the NO evacuees are all located in Texas. The city, county, state, and private individuals also seem to be doing the best jobs. And they are doing it in spite of government funding which will be no doubt slow to appear.
LouisanaJeeper
New member
even under ideal conditions you are not going to evactuate the city fully in like 1.5-2 days
even then you are going to have alot of people who just refuse to leave, most of them the criminal element
the mayor told all the people who CHOSE to go to the dome that it was going to be beyond sucking in there, and to bring there own food, no food was going to be provided
the main things i think should have been done is get the NG presence in there within 4 hrs of storm passing and had the hospitals evacuated ASAP
even then you are going to have alot of people who just refuse to leave, most of them the criminal element
the mayor told all the people who CHOSE to go to the dome that it was going to be beyond sucking in there, and to bring there own food, no food was going to be provided
the main things i think should have been done is get the NG presence in there within 4 hrs of storm passing and had the hospitals evacuated ASAP
General Lee said:
not quite true. I was on an oil rig in the GOM 5 days before the storm hit (Thursday). I evacuated to New Orleans to wait it out. Saturday morning when the storm projection took a drastic turn, I got out. It was 48 hours from the time the forecast changed til it hit. IMO, even if the busses had been made available, 95% of the people who were there after the storm would have stayed anyway. Notice the amount of vehicles that are around next time they show neighborhoods under water. Even if 1/2 of those were broken down, there were a ton who had transportation and didn't leave. Yes, granted 5% would be alot of people. I didn't see a single person on the roadway trying to hitch a ride Saturday afternoon when I was leaving. If these people really wanted a way out, they would have found one. I do believe a mandatory evac should have been issued Saturday morning and was shocked it wasn't. You also have to remember that it wasn't until Saturday night that the thing exploded into a Cat 5. That really left about 18 hours time to get out of harms way. If we are going to evacuate everyone from areas every time a hurricane comes along, half of the eastern Seaboard would be evacuated right now. People will learn and remember this one. Pointing fingers is useless, learn from it.
jfelbab
New member
Interesting read.
MSOsr
New member
A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?
Because using those would have required some effort from the local and state governments. And then, who could have played the race card and blamed the federal government?
Because using those would have required some effort from the local and state governments. And then, who could have played the race card and blamed the federal government?
Even after an unprecedented (for this president and/or his administration) action of taking responsibility for the government's share of their failure people are jumping to crank out the spin...
Since when did any military entity allow someone only identified as a national guardsman make what seems to read as a "news release" to the media? Generally speaking (I don't know if I intended that pun or not), we would normally have something like that coming from an officer.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120009
Since when did any military entity allow someone only identified as a national guardsman make what seems to read as a "news release" to the media? Generally speaking (I don't know if I intended that pun or not), we would normally have something like that coming from an officer.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120009
jfelbab
New member
Yawn.. Maybe you will find this more up your alley.