New Optimum DA

RobD said:
Products should not be reverse engineered, copied almost exactly and built using cheap labor, then sold by undercutting the original manufacturer's price. That hurts the entire industry. The money one saves by purchasing a copycat product takes from legitimate companies and their workforce. However, like I said before, I don't know if this product is produced fairly or not.


Let me ask you this...if you were working in the patent office and this machine was put on you desk, and the already patented Rupes machine was right there next to it, would you grant it its own patent and/or deny patent infringement? Would you say it's different enough in style and execution compared to the Rupes?
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Hello,

First, do you have any idea how many products you and I use daily that are "reverse engineered"?

Second, I agree 100% with you on the cheap labor and how it hurts the industry. Don't blame though the "industry" but rather governments. How many products are designed, engineered and manufactured right here in good ol America? Not very many and it SUCKS! I was horrified when I learned that in many cases it's cheaper to hire an Asian company to do all that while a company in America just opens up an "office" and drop ships you their goods from said Asian country. Yet that's the world we now live in. Reduce business taxes and maybe we can get some major manufacturing back here.

Lastly, as for the question of being in a patent office and giving a patent to something that appears identical? Depends, does it fit within the law of percentage that must be changed or different from that which it resembles?

Last lastly....I have looked into a lot of this as I have come up with an idea I am seeking to bring to market for the shooting industry. It's a unique item and after I get a prototype made, pay a large amount of money to my lawyer and sign all types of papers I can shop my item around. I can't manufacturer it myself due to cost so I will have to sell it most likely. Will it be copied? Yes it will I am sure. What can be done about that? Not much unless I have a good patent lawyer who can write it so a part of how it's crafted be in the patent.

Something similar was done with AutoMagic clay. The patent covered in some way how the abrasives were added to the clay material...if I remember correctly.

Anthony
 
Glad you're back Anthony.

As far as cheap labor, IMHO it's peoples own faults, not governments. People want cheaper products, that's what they are buying.
 
Would you buy a car if it was 20% more expensive if it was completely sourced and assembled in US?

This is a hypothetical question, no need to answer.
 
Ronkh said:
Glad you're back Anthony.

As far as cheap labor, IMHO it's peoples own faults, not governments. People want cheaper products, that's what they are buying.
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Kinda good to be back....even though I really never left!

The people, as in consumers, may want cheap stuff BUT when you have a vicious cycle of a government seeming to want more and more people dependent on it they need to generate money from somewhere so why not raise taxes? Government gives things away and puts the cost on those that work. A case of too many people riding in the cart and not enough pulling.

Sure people want the dollar to stretch as far as it can go but when you pay in taxes .60 cents for every dollar made....that sucks.
 
Anthony O. said:
Kinda good to be back....even though I really never left!

The people, as in consumers, may want cheap stuff BUT when you have a vicious cycle of a government seeming to want more and more people dependent on it they need to generate money from somewhere so why not raise taxes? Government gives things away and puts the cost on those that work. A case of too many people riding in the cart and not enough pulling.

Sure people want the dollar to stretch as far as it can go but when you pay in taxes .60 cents for every dollar made....that sucks.
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:bigups
 
There was a time when I had to have brand name products. Then I started paying for my oldest to go to college and my youngest got on my auto insurance - now, it's generic drugs, store brand food and lets just say my detail supplies are bang for the buck vs boutique label. That said, whoever makes the best product for the money will get my business. I feel Rupes may be a good product, I have only used one briefly but here is my grips: price, cost of backing plates, all the crap using their polishes because it's "made" only for them.
I want something decent, hard working and able to use cheap LC backing plates, the pads and polishes I choose. The only thing that clicks all the boxes is the new Meg's polisher, and I ain't getting that till I hear from a few guys that put it through the paces first.

Btw, I know I am a cheap. And it doesn't bother me!
 
Junebug said:
There was a time when I had to have brand name products. Then I started paying for my oldest to go to college and my youngest got on my auto insurance - now, it's generic drugs, store brand food and lets just say my detail supplies are bang for the buck vs boutique label. That said, whoever makes the best product for the money will get my business. I feel Rupes may be a good product, I have only used one briefly but here is my grips: price, cost of backing plates, all the crap using their polishes because it's "made" only for them.
I want something decent, hard working and able to use cheap LC backing plates, the pads and polishes I choose. The only thing that clicks all the boxes is the new Meg's polisher, and I ain't getting that till I hear from a few guys that put it through the paces first.

Btw, I know I am a cheap. And it doesn't bother me!
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There is cheap and there is "smartly cheap". Cheap would be using the same coffee grinds 2 or 3 times. Reading the newspaper then shredding it later for butt wipe. Smartly cheap is realizing my store brand chips and salsa are just as good as the name brand.

One thing I will not buy though is beer in a can. I am a beer snob so it's only glass bottled Shiner beer for me!

Junebug, I agree with you 100%
 
fdresq4 said:
I was gonna say Scott, I'd take one of those Rupes' off your hands. The machine would probably be more talented than more me just because it was yours. I could put it on the car and it would run itself...:-)
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If I am happy with the Optimum polisher, I may part with one of the Rupes.
 
Well, at the very least it's better than slapping your label on a Harbor Freight DA and calling it your own. I may pick up this Optimum DA if reviews go well.
 
Anthony, ok, you got me! I don't often drank beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis, and Corona! Also, my roids aren't content with anything but Charmin. So, yeah, there are exceptions, but like you say, when Market Pantry frozen pancakes taste the same as Pillsberry and that other one, then I'm going Target brand, same with over the counter meds.
 
Anthony O. said:
Hello,

First, do you have any idea how many products you and I use daily that are "reverse engineered"?

Second, I agree 100% with you on the cheap labor and how it hurts the industry. Don't blame though the "industry" but rather governments. How many products are designed, engineered and manufactured right here in good ol America? Not very many and it SUCKS! I was horrified when I learned that in many cases it's cheaper to hire an Asian company to do all that while a company in America just opens up an "office" and drop ships you their goods from said Asian country. Yet that's the world we now live in. Reduce business taxes and maybe we can get some major manufacturing back here.

Lastly, as for the question of being in a patent office and giving a patent to something that appears identical? Depends, does it fit within the law of percentage that must be changed or different from that which it resembles?

Last lastly....I have looked into a lot of this as I have come up with an idea I am seeking to bring to market for the shooting industry. It's a unique item and after I get a prototype made, pay a large amount of money to my lawyer and sign all types of papers I can shop my item around. I can't manufacturer it myself due to cost so I will have to sell it most likely. Will it be copied? Yes it will I am sure. What can be done about that? Not much unless I have a good patent lawyer who can write it so a part of how it's crafted be in the patent.

Something similar was done with AutoMagic clay. The patent covered in some way how the abrasives were added to the clay material...if I remember correctly.

Anthony
Click to expand...

If you take generic medications, you're taking/using "reversed engineered" products.

Working in the mechanical design field involved ALOT of "reversed engineered" products and designs. You are correct about the fact that much of our manufacturing ingenuity and output has been out-sourced offshore. I am somewhat of a victim of that as some our engineering can be done via the internet as a much less rate of pay and there are a number of economic factors that contribute to this:
1) Standard of living (no house mortgage= no house payment; no car loan= no car payment; no professional sport season tickets, no get-away weekends)
2) No savings for retirement or 401K to put aside for
3) Less taxes at all levels (NO FICA or Social Security; less taxes for national defense or intelligence; less taxes for government regulations like OSHA or product safety)
4) Lower health-care cost (Non-existent health-care or truly government-run socialized medicine without malpractice suite-happy patients)
5) Longer work-week hours with no overtime
6) Emphasis on education over sports at public schools at all levels OR government-subsidized higher education overseas for gifted young people (No State u-name-the-sport champions or NCAA Playoffs; foreigners in USA colleges/universities who will return home when they receive their degree, AKA brain-drain).

What does this rant about engineering economics have to do with detailing?? If I don't have the means (money and time) to buy the products for detailing because my job is now being done overseas, that means I am one less customer for those who make such car-care products or offer such services.

Unfortunately, I never envisioned this day when I started my career in engineering/mechanical design 38 years ago, nor did I foresee today's technology allowing to displacing me.
This should serve as a warning to all those who think that their job is secure or that this nation cannot do without your job or service. That is especially true to those who are clamoring or demanding an increase in the minimum wage. Enjoy the wage increase if you get it: you've just made your job with your increased wage economically viable to develop a technology to replace you. Don't think it will happen?? Remember this when you fill-up your car at a gas station, or use an ATM, or go through a self-service checkout at any store you buy from. These were all jobs that once used to be done by people. Today we accept them as the way business is.

Sorry to get off topic. I'll get off my soap-box now.
 
This has been a great thread !
Thanks to all who have posted some great thoughts, etc..

I remember as a little kid, when virtually a lot of "electronics" from overseas came from Japan ! "Made In Japan"...
How long has that been gone ??? :)
And the crazy part - they made really good stuff !!! Cheaper !

And yes, they probably reverse-engineered everything but they have always been good about taking a concept and improving on it...

Somewhere along the way, the world threw that idea of improving on something out, and is content to make more junk and expect everyone to just make do with it..

Had to go to H/Depot recently to help a friend fix something in their bathroom.... It is so sad how what was once a big part of an Aisle full of different little plumbing parts we all need, had now been reduced to a very small part probably 3 feet wide now, at the very back of the closest Aisle to the outdoor plant dept., and there sits just a few crappy copies of of plumbing parts we all use in our Bathrooms , etc., every day...
I was really sweating it out, because I didnt know if I would be able to find a replacement for a simple faucet aerator here or not...
Plumbing supply houses are now - at least around here - very far and few between..

Life was much easier and even better I believe, when we were just choosing between made in USA or made in Japan... :)
Dan F
 
One thing those that can do that are not a fan of reverse engineering is to not buy products from or support companies that do so. I guess everyone has their issues and whatnot, and maybe detailing tools are mine.

Maybe there is a market for stuff like this in other countries where buffing machines cost a fortune - but in America, price always need not be the deciding factor.
 
LeMarque said:
I'm on board with Patent rip-offs, etc.

I just have to say it's a different world and unless one chooses to be a Luddite, I've learned to grin and bear it. For example, I use gmail and Google calendar. Booked a flight for my daughter to come home for Xmas. Low and behold Google somehow added the flight reservations to my calendar! Everybody knows everything about everybody.

I've heard it said that Chemical Guys is really Warner Chemical - Since 1959 re branded and that Warner reverse engineers other companies products.

And I doubt the new Megs and GG DA's were engineered by them. The originals were mfg. in China and the Chinese probably are one step ahead in predicting the market.

And there's no doubt in my mind that my second 21MM's gonna be from Kevin Brown. But trying to change all this to me is like trying to move the Sahara desert one teaspoon at a time.

There's not much more I can do than re-cycle and treat those I come in contact with kindness and respect.

Just my .02 cents
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Actually Meguiars states that they designed the machine from a blank sheet of paper. And its being tooled in the USA by a major American tool maker. There will be NO other like it on the market until it gets copied by someone else. let me find the video for you...
 
plumbnsquare said:
Actually Meguiars states that they designed the machine from a blank sheet of paper. And its being tooled in the USA by a major American tool maker. There will be NO other like it on the market until it gets copied by someone else. let me find the video for you...
Click to expand...

plumbnsquare said:
His statements have me thinking that Cyclo is using their tooling and manufacturing plant to product these machines. And interestingly enough Rupes just bought out Cyclo and their plant.
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That's a nice idea but Meguiar's already stated that the D300 is made in China.
 
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