New here - Question regarding Lighting

[Accumulator]

..The sun gun isn't for correction actually..

Right, I first saw one at my painter's shop. Playing around with it, I found that I could spot certain types of marring (e.g., holograms) that I could *not* see under my other lights, so I had to have one

Used right (and that can be tricky), it's one cruel SOB, shows stuff that's otherwise invisible 99% of the time. Mike Philips once teased me about it, it was a bit extreme even for him so he said something like "nobody's following you around inspecting your car with a SunGun". To which I replied, "well, *I* am!"

 

[The Driver]

Right, I first saw one at my painter's shop. Playing around with it, I found that I could spot certain types of marring (e.g., holograms) that I could *not* see under my other lights, so I had to have one

Used right (and that can be tricky), it's one cruel SOB, shows stuff that's otherwise invisible 99% of the time. Mike Philips once teased me about it, it was a bit extreme even for him so he said something like "nobody's following you around inspecting your car with a SunGun". To which I replied, "well, *I* am!"

Sorry I didn't mean it like that, I mean't the sun-gun wasn't "created originally" for corrections. That said, it does work great for them. The one thing I truly dispised about it was the awful battery life. You'd figure something from 3M would be able to stand the life of over an hour on high but no. That was my real quirk an why I sold it.

 

[XxBoostinxX]

Or that crazy-pricey SunGun I bought back before there were cheaper, yet effective, alternatives :wacko:

I made one for about $50. It's ok, sometimes it's just too bright. Depends on the color of the vehicle.

 

[XxBoostinxX]

Right, I first saw one at my painter's shop. Playing around with it, I found that I could spot certain types of marring (e.g., holograms) that I could *not* see under my other lights, so I had to have one

Used right (and that can be tricky), it's one cruel SOB, shows stuff that's otherwise invisible 99% of the time. Mike Philips once teased me about it, it was a bit extreme even for him so he said something like "nobody's following you around inspecting your car with a SunGun". To which I replied, "well, *I* am!"

Please explain "used right". Maybe it's something I am not doing right with mine lol.

 

[Accumulator]

Home-brew SunGuns oughta sidestep that terrible battery life issue, and yeah it really is just AWFUL.

Xxboostix-ASSuming that the light is functionally identical...maybe that's a big assumption...then it's just more of that "you gotta mess around with it". Yeah, I know, that's not much help but that's just how I think it works out.

I like mine for holograms and really light flaws, but most "regular marring" can often be seen easier under other lighting so it's not my ideas of an ideal swirl-spotter light. For the holograms, you gotta turn out all the other lights, and even light from a window can cause trouble. Gotta move the light and watch for the issue. I find it easiest to have somebody else move the light while I do the looking, and both people have to move around (closer, farther,side-to-side, changing the angle, you name it); just a whole lot of experimenting and [messing] around.

Eh, sorry for the lousy answer, if I could give you a better answer, an easier solution, I would. But it's just a huge PIA on certain paints.

 

[The Driver]

Home-brew SunGuns oughta sidestep that terrible battery life issue, and yeah it really is just AWFUL.

Xxboostix-ASSuming that the light is functionally identical...maybe that's a big assumption...then it's just more of that "you gotta mess around with it". Yeah, I know, that's not much help but that's just how I think it works out.

I like mine for holograms and really light flaws, but most "regular marring" can often be seen easier under other lighting so it's not my ideas of an ideal swirl-spotter light. For the holograms, you gotta turn out all the other lights, and even light from a window can cause trouble. Gotta move the light and watch for the issue. I find it easiest to have somebody else move the light while I do the looking, and both people have to move around (closer, farther,side-to-side, changing the angle, you name it); just a whole lot of experimenting and [messing] around.

Eh, sorry for the lousy answer, if I could give you a better answer, an easier solution, I would. But it's just a huge PIA on certain paints.

Dead on, You really need to kill all other sources. I tape off al the windows with black garbage bags.

Boostin, If you need help building a setup I'd be more then happy too help.

I'd strongly recommend this badboy. I have mine on back-order. It blows the rupes penlight out the water as well as most torches. The size make's it very nice to handle, it's literally a small pen.

ThruNite Neutron2C V2 CW Handheld LED Flashlight Max 1040 Lumen With Extension Tube - - Amazon.com - I like the neutral light but it's all preference, they are both highly effective. You need to order a battery for it as well, 1x 18650. These flashlights powered by 18650's have up to 10x the light output of any normally driven torch say by AA's.

 

[Stokdgs]

ThruNite Neutron2C V2 CW Handheld LED Flashlight Max 1040 Lumen With Extension Tube - - Amazon.com

Shoot ! Its out of stock at Amazon...
Dan F

 

[The Driver]

I know, you can order direct from thrunite but I think it would take longer depending on how fast they restock. Remember you need either a Cr123 battery or an 18650. The 18650 will provide almost 50% more lumens than a cr123 though. Make sure to get protected cells or a very good charger. Lithium batteries are massively more powerful than their little brother otc A series and if you overcharge them you could seriously hurt yourself.

ThruNite Neutron 2C v2 (1x18650 or 1(2)xCR123A/16340/18350) REVIEW | BudgetLightForum.com - review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBWfvVGIfBA - video review

 

[XxBoostinxX]

Dead on, You really need to kill all other sources. I tape off al the windows with black garbage bags.

Boostin, If you need help building a setup I'd be more then happy too help.

I'd strongly recommend this badboy. I have mine on back-order. It blows the rupes penlight out the water as well as most torches. The size make's it very nice to handle, it's literally a small pen.

ThruNite Neutron2C V2 CW Handheld LED Flashlight Max 1040 Lumen With Extension Tube - - Amazon.com - I like the neutral light but it's all preference, they are both highly effective. You need to order a battery for it as well, 1x 18650. These flashlights powered by 18650's have up to 10x the light output of any normally driven torch say by AA's.

That thing looks legit. I have been looking at the ultrafire lights, but never pulled the trigger. Keep me updated when you get it. I really would like to know how it fits in your pocket.

I just received a foursevens preon 2. It's 192 lumen and the size of a pen.

With the light on:

Without the light on:

It has a very white light to it. Unlike some LED bulbs that tend to be bluish. I'm gonna test it on my paint tonight and see how it does. I really wanted something that wasn't bulky and would fit in my pocket while polishing.

I wouldn't mind have an atd mechanic LED work light around 500-700 lumens for swirl spotting. Only bad thing is they are so big (20"), but the trade off of seeing so much of the paint at one time.

 

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, some of you guys like 'em a *LOT* brighter than I do!

 

[Wreckage]

Hey Guys,

I found a place here that does LED lights. I bought some off them.

The lights (lenses in front) are 1.5 Inch. So they are pretty small and they cost a whole bunch with the tripod (near $300).

However, I tested them outside while the sun was on the car, and from 1 meter away you could still see the 'white' color on the car off the Light. They are apparently 1000 Lumens but they seem brighter than other places that say 1400 Lumen.

Either way, what I wanted to ask was this as my car is Silver so it is pretty hard to see anything anyway (especially in the day time).

What I noticed is this... the spot light provides a nice bright white section on the car, maybe 8-10" in diameter from about 1 Meter away. But where I see the swirl marks is not in any of that white light that has illuminated the vehicle, but rather in the actual reflection of the light itself (a little half inch spot where you see the LED light in the cars reflection).

It is in the reflection of the light itself that I see the webbing etc, which is just a small half inch circle (due to light being 1.5" only in diameter). Is that normal or is that normal for a silver car?

Am I supposed to see webbing in more spots than just the actual reflection, like am I mean to see it in all of the light produced on the car? (Which is more than half n inch!)....

If it is only going to show up in the reflection of the light itself on the vehicle... then wouldn't those big square LED Flood flights be better as they will provide a MUCH larger 'reflected' spot of the light itself as it is larger? In which case bigger is better, not brighter is better... ???

Hope you get what I am trying to ask here.

This is the light I got: ML10

I got the spot-light version of the flood and 1 flood. The flood light also only shows up the webbing in the actual reflection of the light itself, not anything around it. I can return these for others if no good... Just gives you an idea.

I mean if its only going to show up in the reflection of the LED light and not the light surrounding the vehicle... is it not then better to get one of those wide lights that have like 10 LED bulbs as that will produce 10 LED reflections on the paint surface and around each 1 of those reflection swirl marks will be visible (since it has nothing to do with the light on the car)...

So this is what I am trying to gauge.... also have a look at what else they got if there is anything there you would recommend I get instead of what I have or whatever.

Much appreciated

 

[Accumulator]

wreckage- Don't worry about what's "supposed" to happen, go by what works for *you*. Although I dunno if anybody can really talk with authority without actually being there, IMO it sounds like maybe you're using a light that's *too* bright.

And no, I wouldn't expect for a "broader" light to be better than a more concentrated "point-source" type.

Same ol' same ol'...just gotta keep messing around, experimenting. On colors like white and silver it's simply a tough row to hoe and it takes as much time and effort as it takes. I've been fanatically inspecting silver for decades and it's still a PIA.

 

[Wreckage]

I see.

Well, this was a picture posted on the first page: IMG_20140913_092112_071.jpg Photo by mdnwrathchild | Photobucket

See how the webbing is visible only around the reflection of the actual light itself though that light is lighting up a lot more than that central spot. So in that picture, there are 2 spot lights set up and webbing seen around the reflection of the 2 lights.

Since that is seeming how it works... why not have a long light such as the first pic here: worklights

That will provide more of those white spot reflections on the car, which means more stuff visible without having to move around so much. Since the webbing is only around the relfection itself, a light like that would be like having 5 or 6 lights side by side.... wouldn't that be good? It would provide 6 (or how ever many lights there are in the Lamp) white spots on the car, which shows up webbing around each one...?

 

[Wreckage]

print screen

Questions asked in the photo itself. Please try answer that, if at all possible, someone give me a picture of what they get so I can see the difference and visually understand.

 

[Accumulator]

I..Since that is seeming how it works... why not have a long light such as the first pic here: worklights..?

If that uses LEDs it might work, otherwise it won't give the "point source" effect.

Heh heh, I can't help but think that you're trying to make a tough, time-consuming job into something it's just *not*, but far be it from me to be sooo negative that I stiffle what might be a very productive search for a better mousetrap. I really do hope you find something that simplifies this, and maybe something like that will do the trick.

As I've probably (make that "undoubtedly"!) posted before, most of the time I just turn out the other shop lights and rely on ceiling-mounted incandescents for the horizontal surfaces. I have an old-school-style incandescent trouble light (conical aluminum shade, spring-clamp for its grip) that I use in conjunction with my cheap old halogens. I seldom need to get out the SunGun as holograms just aren't an issue (because I don't use a rotary). So I'm basically getting by just fine with '80s (and earlier) tech. But hey, that's just me and I've been chasing marring on these tough colors for decades.

 

[Wreckage]

I guess in the short which I am trying to ask and do not feel I got a direct answer for was:

Can I get lights, that, will show up the webbing etc (as in picture) across the entire panel not just the spot where the light bulb is being reflected?

So get a light, turn it on, and entire door, or entire fender, or rear quarter etc shows up all the scratches throughout entire panel. Is there anything that can do that, or, does light not work like this and thus I cant just switch something on to show up webbing etc in the entire panel... which would then mean, what I posted in picture is how all the lights will basically work. ?

 

[Accumulator]

I guess in the short which I am trying to ask and do not feel I got a direct answer for was:

Can I get lights, that, will show up the webbing etc (as in picture) across the entire panel not just the spot where the light bulb is being reflected?

So get a light, turn it on, and entire door, or entire fender, or rear quarter etc shows up all the scratches throughout entire panel. Is there anything that can do that, or, does light not work like this and thus I cant just switch something on to show up webbing etc in the entire panel... which would then mean, what I posted in picture is how all the lights will basically work. ?

Thanks for clarifying, distilling it down that way makes it easier to give a more direct answer, though probably not the answer you'd like!

Answer- No.

IME, you often have to work areas smaller than a full panel, at least on certain of the "tricky" paints. I often have to move the light/reposition myself/etc. over and over and over in the course of correcting a panel, or even one section of a panel.

Somebody else, in a different setting, with different tools and/or a different (more efficient!) approach might be able to do it the way you were hoping, but I can't. I sometimes think I can, but I always end up finding some residual marring that I didn't spot the first time around.

 

[Wreckage]

Thanks for clarifying, distilling it down that way makes it easier to give a more direct answer, though probably not the answer you'd like!

Answer- No.

IME, you often have to work areas smaller than a full panel, at least on certain of the "tricky" paints. I often have to move the light/reposition myself/etc. over and over and over in the course of correcting a panel, or even one section of a panel.

Somebody else, in a different setting, with different tools and/or a different (more efficient!) approach might be able to do it the way you were hoping, but I can't. I sometimes think I can, but I always end up finding some residual marring that I didn't spot the first time around.

Hi,

I got one last question...

The LED lights i got. One is spot light one is flood light. On yellow, silver etc cars it seems thr flood light works better for spotting problems because the light is spread thus not too bright. The spot light, same power, is a lot brighter and makes a very bright white spot on car which kinda makes it not as good as the flood (or more distance is needed as the flood is spread so appears not as bright)

Having said that... when i used the spot light on a black car. Was an old chevy hot rod... the light just disappeared. I mean this extremely bright/too bright LED light for other colors was hardly even visible on the black car. I moved the light right next to the car and I could hardly see the reflection, stuck it on a white surface and you go blind looking at it, stick it on black and its as though the light broke.

What am i asking?

Was something wrong with my light, was it just going dimmer as i moved from one color car to the next OR does black paint do that to light and i would probably need something brighter for black cars than even this light?

So basically, do i need a brighter light for black cars and less bright for other colors?

 

[Accumulator]

Wreckage- That's great how you're experimenting like that! I think the answer is simply that you're discovering how "one size does NOT fit all" What's just right on one paint is too bright (washout, dazzle, etc.) on another. Nothing wrong with the light, some colors/paints just "soak up" light that way (e.g., dark single stage is very different from basecoat/clearcoat).

Sometimes a "too bright" light is OK if you move the light back from the surface (e.g., the sun) or even just shine it at a different angle. I sometimes get my wife to hold the light (varying its position) while I move around trying to find the right viewing angle.

 

[Paintxpert]

Any simple hand held shop light can divulge the integrity of the correction efforts. While lighting is very important, you don't have to break the bank. Wheel marks and poor polishing can be seen by pulling the car out into sun light. I know there are some expensive lights sold here, I respectfully put it in the category of the paint depth gauge. But your enthusiasm cant be denied, many detailers I have seen could care less if they can see. Pulling the car out in day light is a fright. Keep up the commitment to excellence, it is a journey that will reward you 40 years from now!!!! Paintxpert Search: Auto Polishing!