New Detailers Association

Another question I would bring up would be, what about us weekend detailers that only do this on the side? I'm not going to run down to the clerks office for license then have the IRS laboring over account books trying to figure out how much I made on the side. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hack and I do spend good money on great equipment and products and take pride in the vehicles I do. I just don't think certain things should be a requirement for those of us that do this for love more than money.



The Beer Man:) ;) :p
 
theveed,



Detailing is a highly skilled business when it comes to using a rotary buffer for paint correction; wheel indentification for using certain acids; proper engine detailing and stain identification for proper removal. Glad you'd like to join but you'd be our #2 Phillipine detailer, someone beat yout to it. :-)
 
I read everyones post and thought about this a litte today.



This would be very hard to start up, it will not be easy. At first every detailer in the world will sign up.... why... because it's free. Nothing is better then free advertisement.



Once you charge a fee for the this, only the detailers that are profiting from this will stay around. I can see more then 1/2 leaving once a charge is added.



But that might be a good thing, now what is left are the pro detailers and people that want to make this work.



This could go back & forth 100 x's about why people should join and why people should not join. who want's to pay and who does not want to pay.



The biggest thing is that everyone profits from it one way or another.



I can see many problems that come up.

Just because some one is registered business does not mean they can detail a car

Just because some one is not a registered business does not mean they suck at detailing.



I will go with it for now to see where it goes, and how it works.
 
Maybe we forgot to add the association is going to be set-up as a not-for-profit organization, meaning the association will not be making a profit and we will be audited by an accountant for every dime we spend.
 
First I want to give you guys credit for trying to legitimize my profession. As far as the weekend detailer, if it were not for you guys and your mistakes I could not comand the big dollar. The average person will pay top dollar for quality. I am the most expensive detailer around and I am the busiest. Matter a fact I often here when I talk to a new customer, yes Mr Smith told me to call you and he may make a comment that you are good but you also are expensive. I have legitimized myseld by my service, workmanship and quality. Dollar for dollar our service cannot be compared. You show me another detailer who has loaner vehicles, tells his customers that if you are not happy with the job it's FREE and most of all does a better job than the competition. They are even calling for rain tomorrow and all of my customers will show. This says alot for the work.
 
Auto Care USA said:
First I want to give you guys credit for trying to legitimize my profession. As far as the weekend detailer, if it were not for you guys and your mistakes I could not comand the big dollar. The average person will pay top dollar for quality. I am the most expensive detailer around and I am the busiest. Matter a fact I often here when I talk to a new customer, yes Mr Smith told me to call you and he may make a comment that you are good but you also are expensive. I have legitimized myseld by my service, workmanship and quality. Dollar for dollar our service cannot be compared. You show me another detailer who has loaner vehicles, tells his customers that if you are not happy with the job it's FREE and most of all does a better job than the competition. They are even calling for rain tomorrow and all of my customers will show. This says alot for the work.
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Well stated Auto Care! :xyxthumbs
 
PrecisionOnline said:
theveed,



Detailing is a highly skilled business when it comes to using a rotary buffer for paint correction; wheel indentification for using certain acids; proper engine detailing and stain identification for proper removal. Glad you'd like to join but you'd be our #2 Phillipine detailer, someone beat yout to it. :-)
Click to expand...



Hehe, really, who will that be? There aren't a lot of us reading this board, so probably he's a friend of mine...
 
Jim Hammill said:
NY detailer, thanks for your questions.



Among many of the things we are trying to do for detailers are:



-assistance with Business Insurance and Health Insurance

-Buying groups for discounts

-Networking opportunities

-Training certification

- Providing Technical Information Sheets , which the Department of Automotive Technology at The Southern University of Illinois Carbondale is assisiting us in the production of.

-Annual conventions, golf outtings, dinners, awards, etc.

-Tried and tested detailing products -- give the "PDTA Seal of Approval"

-Assistance with OSHA and EPA compliance.

-Marketing programs



All of these ideas have come from other detailers who have told us this is what they want from an association. Please visit the web site and take the survey, tell us what you would like an association to provide for you. This association will be run by detailers for detailers, providing practical advice from people who are out working in the industry on a day to day basis.



Thanks.



Jim.
Click to expand...



This is a nice thought but I personally don't see it becoming a reality. Why? Well because who says you are qualified to call me an "expert"?



I mean no disrespect to Jim or Brian, I have a great deal of respect for Brian as a person and a detailer, he does great work BUT again who is qualified to call another an "expert" or to say they now have a certificate in auto detailing? Detailing is far too subjective and I myself might attend a class and flunk because I want to do things my way. My way works for me but it may not work for the other guy, or the guy teaching the class. He tells me to always charge this much for this job or use this glaze over this cleaner but not this wax over this sealant and I disagree, so in that case what happens to me? Again detailing is far too subjective to be mandated.



What if I don't want to use the "Official PDTA" stamp of approval products?



What if the products I am using now are already "tried and tested" by me?



What if I don't like to socialize and go out and have dinner?



What if I hate golf?



What if I don't need insurance or a business license in my state?



What then am I paying for?





The hack detailers will always be there, they will come and go like high tide, so an association will not help here because it is not illegal to be a hack detailer like it is illegal to practice medicine without proper schooling. I know some weekend warriors that do better work than "pro" detailers with a shop, insurance, nice T-shirts and a EPA qualified discharge system. So this "pro" detailer sees the weekend warrior doing some work on the side and goes and tells the PDTA......so what can they do?



Like Autocare wrote, I make money from the hacks when they screw up a car. I am also the most expensive detailer around my parts and I am not losing any work because of it.



If certification meant anything special then there wouldn't be so many darn lawsuits against doctors, lawyers and auto mechanics.



This may sound all negative but I do wish Brian and Jim the best.....who knows 10 years from now we may all thank Brian and Jim for their charting uncharted territory.



As for now I would not join nor do I have much interest in it.



Anthony
 
Let me put this idea up.



Maybe the organization needs for right now to give up the idea of claiming the detailers in the group to not be hacks and to be experts. Give up the idea of certification. Maybe in the future it can be implemented but focus on something else.



Why not make it an organization of detailers who work for profit (Prove they are registered to do business in their state and pay taxes.)



You can then provide services that non-hack detailers would appreciate. Help provide insurance, provide TSB, provide information about marketing, information about running your business, etc. The Hackers probably won't want to pay the money for that so they'll leave. In time people will begin to recognize that detailers that belong to the group are probably better detailers than other.



You might also want to come up with a list of rules that members should agree to such as the BBB's "Code of Advertising"
 
Intel486 said:
Let me put this idea up.



Maybe the organization needs for right now to give up the idea of claiming the detailers in the group to not be hacks and to be experts. Give up the idea of certification. Maybe in the future it can be implemented but focus on something else.



Why not make it an organization of detailers who work for profit (Prove they are registered to do business in their state and pay taxes.)



You can then provide services that non-hack detailers would appreciate. Help provide insurance, provide TSB, provide information about marketing, information about running your business, etc. The Hackers probably won't want to pay the money for that so they'll leave. In time people will begin to recognize that detailers that belong to the group are probably better detailers than other.



You might also want to come up with a list of rules that members should agree to such as the BBB's "Code of Advertising"
Click to expand...



I like this idea:up
 
Auto Care USA said:
First I want to give you guys credit for trying to legitimize my profession. As far as the weekend detailer, if it were not for you guys and your mistakes I could not comand the big dollar. The average person will pay top dollar for quality. I am the most expensive detailer around and I am the busiest. Matter a fact I often here when I talk to a new customer, yes Mr Smith told me to call you and he may make a comment that you are good but you also are expensive. I have legitimized myseld by my service, workmanship and quality. Dollar for dollar our service cannot be compared. You show me another detailer who has loaner vehicles, tells his customers that if you are not happy with the job it's FREE and most of all does a better job than the competition. They are even calling for rain tomorrow and all of my customers will show. This says alot for the work.
Click to expand...



:bow
 
Intel486 said:
What are the goals of this organization?



I say the only requirement to join be that you have a business license. There are plenty of small time operations out there that don't care or have the money for the other stuff but still do a quality job. I know I'm not going to run out and take a training class for detailing so I can join. I don't think it would help me out at all.



Compared to other trades, detailing doesn't actually require that much skill (not saying it doesn't require any though)... It's mostly labor.



What would be the most helpfull though is learning how to market your detailing business better, etc. That seems to be where most start-up professional detailers have their problems. I'd see the biggest help being infomation on how to actually run your business more effeciently.
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Compared to other trades, detailing doesn't actually require that much skill (not saying it doesn't require any though)... It's mostly labor. not requireing much skill? this kills me when i see this.... have you ever wetsanded a whole panel? ever attempt to reflo paint? i wonder if you understand what true paint correction is? i wonder what rydawg or ricrack or todd helme would say about this comment?
 
Another One! Keep it up and these Associations will be asking for a Bail - Out.

I have been keeping up with the talk of the new groups. Bud and some of his buddies started all this. Most of these guys are rich or well to do, own car washes ,detail shops, etc. They have been in the game for quite a while too. They make good money too. I always get the feeling that they are trying to corner the market,in their perspective areas. Most started out detailing, opened shops,started selling their own products, training etc. I do not have a problem with the Associations, but I think some of the fees are unreasonable. Pay to join a group with little to no benifits. Even if there was a way to say Certify a Pro Detailer, does a customer care,and are they willing to pay what the person is worth? So you put the business in your directry. Big Huh Hah to me! I get the feeling alot of it is about greed. That's why this nation is in the shape it is in now. If the Big Boys would have spread things out a little more even, you would not have a select few making it or suffering. It's going to take alot to get the guys that are in business to go for this ,IMO.

I was a Certified Welder for the State Of Ohio. That certification meant something. I made Train Scales that are all over the US and abroad. The company I worked for took care of all fees and licencing. I did the work, and was paid well. I understood this,but these Detailing Organizations? I wonder! Is anyone feeling ME?
 
bufferbarry said:
this kills me when i see this.... have you ever wetsanded a whole panel? ever attempt to reflo paint? i wonder if you understand what true paint correction is? i wonder what rydawg or ricrack or todd helme would say about this comment?
Click to expand...



They have no idea Barry. They sit behind a desk and try to figure out how to get money for the association and give you a license which means you paid your dues for the year in actual reality.



Some people only see the simple things of the business as cleaning cars for a fixed price and that's fine if that is what one does. When it comes to wetsanding, polishing 3-million steps, they do not even have a clue on what it actually takes. But don't give them ideas, because they will have a separate "certified paint correction" association.



What they do not see is that some people have strong passion for this business and want to excell above their competition.



I think what he meant when he put that comment like that is,"anyone that can clean cars will get certified''.

Plus the statement was made 5 years ago.:chuckle:
 
Showroom Shine said:
Another One! Keep it up and these Associations will be asking for a Bail - Out.

I have been keeping up with the talk of the new groups. Bud and some of his buddies started all this. Most of these guys are rich or well to do, own car washes ,detail shops, etc. They have been in the game for quite a while too. They make good money too. I always get the feeling that they are trying to corner the market,in their perspective areas. Most started out detailing, opened shops,started selling their own products, training etc. I do not have a problem with the Associations, but I think some of the fees are unreasonable. Pay to join a group with little to no benifits. Even if there was a way to say Certify a Pro Detailer, does a customer care,and are they willing to pay what the person is worth? So you put the business in your directry. Big Huh Hah to me! I get the feeling alot of it is about greed. That's why this nation is in the shape it is in now. If the Big Boys would have spread things out a little more even, you would not have a select few making it or suffering. It's going to take alot to get the guys that are in business to go for this ,IMO.

I was a Certified Welder for the State Of Ohio. That certification meant something. I made Train Scales that are all over the US and abroad. The company I worked for took care of all fees and licencing. I did the work, and was paid well. I understood this,but these Detailing Organizations? I wonder! Is anyone feeling ME?
Click to expand...



Yea, pretty much. No one does anything for free. If we (humans) were real altruists, I think we'd be in big trouble.



What I have found is (in general and on here as well) when someone is running around preaching on a certain product, service, belief and why you should do this or that, it is certainly to their benefit ( no duh, huh) and they already have a hidden agenda behind it.
 
In the IT business, there are MCSE and PMP certifications to name a few.



Then the "associations" come in from those mailing lists and try to collect $500 a piece per year so you can receive yet another newsletter with dribble on it. Anyone read the misery on TechRepublic forums?



The certs have been totally abused by sharks who learned how to exploit free education grants to minorities from the government. They scour the streets for qualified applicants, have them sign the grant, then dump them in a 5 day class to learn how to create AD accounts and set up DNS all with no charge to the student. Suddenly their social security number is pounded when the "grant" didn't cover the 100% tuition of the "school". Here comes the collection agency to the rescue, and some poor kids credit is ruined.



In my office, we used to call the candidates that had MCSE status listed on their resumes as their key attribute, MCSG's. - Microsoft Certified Security Guards.



As for PMP's - A certified Burger King Process Handbook Writer.





Just be completely aware of what the certs are worth and what an association is going to do for you. If you are good, you need NONE OF THIS.
 
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