New Detailers Association

J

Jim Hammill

New member
Brian Angelucci and myself are in the process of establishing a new detailing association. The association is open to all types of detailers, fixed or mobile.



We currently have a survey online at www.detailersassociation.com :we are seeking input from all detailers as what they would like to see the new association do for them.



We already have the Department of Automotive Technology at Southern Illinois University Carbondale assisting us with creating technical service bulletins for detailers.



Detailers from all across North America and beyond are welcome to join. The membership is currently free until the association becomes fully established.



For further information please contact Brian or myself



[email protected], or [email protected]
 
What do Pro detailers get from becoming part of this. I don't want to come off as a d!ck, but you say it is free until everything is up and running.



What will the fee be?



I am not into giving money to people, when I don't know what the return will be for me.



Any other info, email it to me

Thanks
 
I'm with NYDetailer on this one , what will the detailer get from this association ? Also what assurnace woud there be that any hack that calls himself a detailer can join and be called and member of the Detailers Association thus making him the real thing? Don't get me wrong there is interest in such a program but there needs to be a outline of how it will work. Please post what you have in mind.
 
NY detailer, thanks for your questions.



Among many of the things we are trying to do for detailers are:



-assistance with Business Insurance and Health Insurance

-Buying groups for discounts

-Networking opportunities

-Training certification

- Providing Technical Information Sheets , which the Department of Automotive Technology at The Southern University of Illinois Carbondale is assisiting us in the production of.

-Annual conventions, golf outtings, dinners, awards, etc.

-Tried and tested detailing products -- give the "PDTA Seal of Approval"

-Assistance with OSHA and EPA compliance.

-Marketing programs



All of these ideas have come from other detailers who have told us this is what they want from an association. Please visit the web site and take the survey, tell us what you would like an association to provide for you. This association will be run by detailers for detailers, providing practical advice from people who are out working in the industry on a day to day basis.



Thanks.



Jim.
 
Curious that a person with one post to the premier detailing site... well, you can fill in the rest.



Jim
 
Criteria for membership is currently being finalized, things like proof of insurance, licence, any qualifications such as ASE or being certified by recognized training program.



Jim Hammill.
 
Jim, there is no licensing, ASE could care less about detailers, and 'recognized' training programs are usually mfg sponsered, so...



Check with Bud, He'll have all the answers.



I've an open mind. Good Luck.



Jim
 
To me this seems to create an 'authority' on detailing which doesn't seem to offer many benefits for the working detailer. I'm sure all of the pros on this board knows what works for them and one of the strengths here is the sharing of information regarding products, tools, tips, etc. I honestly don't know where I would find any more information on detailing. I personally feel that your criteria for being a 'detailer' such as proof of insurance or training certificate from a third-party (often manufacturer) would help professionalize the trade. In fact, I would go as far to say that people who are excellent at what they do but smaller scale would shirk this type of setup.
 
I was a member of the Professional Detailing Association when I first started and they didn't ask for anything other than dues (initially about $25 a year) and sent me out a certificate and sticker for my car. They had no idea if I was a good detailer or a hacker. I got a quarterly newletter and occasionally I would get free samples from distributers. When they raised the dues to $80 a year, I quit. Just not enough benefit.



What is important in any such organization is a way to verify their members are who they say they are and offer tangible benefits. Too often, you have to jump through hoops to get the perks (sort of like with rebates, make it hard enough and few will actually take advantage). What kind of assurances do we have your organization will be different? Not trying to slam you or anything, I'm just curious how you will go about all this.
 
jimamary, there are many requirements for a licence in most States, in my state you have to have a business licence in order to get insurance . Perhaps I should have been clearer, a licence to do business , not a licence to detail, my apologies for the misunderstanding.





Scottwax, great comments, thank you.



Too many legit detailers are being hurt by hacks who can undercut their prices by 25-50 % because they dont have insurance, or are not in compliance with EPA regulations etc. Why should the legitamate businessman suffer becuase of that ?



Most of the detailers who I speak to are currently paying about 12-1500 a year for insurance , that was the number one request for assistance with in the survey we have on the web site. Brian has been working with several insurance companies to try and find someone who specializes in insuring mobile and fixed detail bays without charging the earth. He is currently working with two insurance companies to try and get group rates , or a discount for association members.



We are also working with one major supplier right now to get a discount scheme in place for members, no rebates or anything like that, simply call in, tell them your membership number and get your discount.



I would also like to add that the association will be run by detailers for detailers, not by the suppliers or distrubitors, but by the regular guys in the shops and vans who have to fight it out everyday.



Everyone, please go and take the survey, tell us exactly what you would want to see from the association, what you would like to get out of it.



There is no charge, all the current expenses are being paid by Brian and myself , so if it all goes south through a lack of intrest, we will be the only ones out of pocket.



We welcome all suggestions and involvement, positive or otherwise.



Jim Hammill.
 
What are the goals of this organization?



I say the only requirement to join be that you have a business license. There are plenty of small time operations out there that don't care or have the money for the other stuff but still do a quality job. I know I'm not going to run out and take a training class for detailing so I can join. I don't think it would help me out at all.



Compared to other trades, detailing doesn't actually require that much skill (not saying it doesn't require any though)... It's mostly labor.



What would be the most helpfull though is learning how to market your detailing business better, etc. That seems to be where most start-up professional detailers have their problems. I'd see the biggest help being infomation on how to actually run your business more effeciently.
 
Everyone’s skepticism is understandable and justified since the last detailing association disappeared into the ICA. The ICA is a great association, don’t get me wrong but not enough detailers joined and spoke up so favoritism leaned more towards the big business of carwashing and the detailer was forgotten.



NY detailer & Intel486

What do you get out of the association? Question should be “what do you want out of an association?� We have a survey on the website (www.detailersassociation.com) to find out what a detailer is willing to pay for and what they need to make their business succeed faster and easier -- or to even help them stay in business. Right now we’re still in the start-up phase and recruiting as many detailers as we can to find out what they want.



OK, so what will you get? I’ll reinforce everything Jim Hammill said. Our main focus right now is to make available business insurance (mainly general liability) and health insurance for mobile and fixed detailers. Mobile detailers have it the hardest right now because most insurance companies will not cover them. Out of the all the mobile detailers we have signed up, only a few have received business insurance. Half of that number has health insurance. With enough people, insurance companies will recognize the demand and provide -- usually at a much more affordable rate then obtaining it on your own. If you have a mobile detailing business and have insurance, congratulations -- you’re very lucky. Insurance companies these days are slamming the door in the contractor’s face BUT if enough people demand, especially through an association they usually will provide.



The association will provide members with Technical Service Bulletins the dealers and schools receive from the manufacturers. Detailers usually never see these but we will now thanks to our associate, the Department of Automotive Technology at The Southern University of Illinois Carbondale and Auto International. Only the lucky few have access to these.



Another perk of membership is participating in a buyers group. We have several detailing chemical companies willing to give deep discounts with a buying group. You’d probably pay for the membership fee just from the savings alone with a buyers group.



detailbarn, a hack wouldn’t usually pay for good equipment let alone an association membership due. If he does, then usually that means he wants to better himself and his business -- which wouldn‘t qualify him as a hack.



But to make sure we don’t sign hacks up, we will require a “Doing Business As� certificate. This is the registration document you get when registering your business at the County Clerk’s office. After you fax us a copy of the certificate, the association will call the County Clerk’s office in the state you’re doing business in just to verify. No privacy will be violated, just a simple question -- “Is so and so, of this company registered to do business?�



ncal, It wouldn’t hurt to get ASE certified in Paint Refinishing. Just another achievement of excellence to post on your portfolio.



Bottom line is, we’re here to help and no push anything on you. If you’d like to join, beautiful. If not, goodluck with business and we’d enjoy keeping in touch and reading your posts on the forum.
 
Cost me $75 to file for my LLC here.



PrecisionOnline said:
Intel,



How can you say detailing doesn't take much skill?
Click to expand...



I don't want to start an arguement. I agree it does take skill to detail. Just not as much as compared to other organizations that have certifications.



I mainly see hackers as people who are 1) too lazy or 2) too concerned about a profit. Most of the hack jobs are people who see detailing as a quick buck. Let's use cheap chemicals, do a quick job, and make some money.



Maybe it's just gotten too easy to me but I see detailing as mostly labor. I do enjoy doing it though. I heard a saying about cooking that was, "Anyone who can read can cook." I guess I can go ahead and say, "Anyone who can read can detail."



The one thing that does take a large amount of skill in detailing is the rotary buffer. I will say that.
 
I agree with Intel: While detailing can be considered as an art if done by a enthusiast, detailing as a job isn't exactly "high skilled'. Pretty much any Tom, **** and Harry who wants to learn the basics can do it well as long as they WANT to do it well....



Back to the org thing, if it works out, can you extend it overseas? I'd love to be the first to be certified in our area :D
 
I am not a detailer but I am self employed. For years I have received mail from NASE (National Assoc. of the Self Employed). They pretty much offer the same benefits.



What I have noticed from all the mailings is that they are really trying to sell you insurance. I don't know if the association is underwritten by an insurance company. The other benefits they offer such as supply discounts really don't amount to much.



Anyway, just my .02
 
On the skill debate I have to agree with what the others have said. Detailing is highly laborious and artful in the way that anyone can do it. Sure, most people are abysmal at their methods and only a few detailers are truly artists but the fact remains that anyone who wants to make money detailing can head down to K-mart and load up on the gear. As far as certification goes, I'd love to get my ICAR certification as I'm fascinated with body work. But I honestly don't have time. I'm sure there are many people who much busier than me to take a certification course. Personally, I think the truly talented people on this board know vast amounts regarding what and what can not be done to a vehicle without the need for a formal 'class'. And all you have to do is read this board to read about the detailers in our areas that are making great money, few complaints, and are considered reputable by everyone BUT true detailers. Perhaps a shady detailer might not join for the discounts or insurance, but to have that sticker saying 'PROUD MEMBER OF DETAILER INTERNATIONAL". . . All I'm trying to say is that there are a multitude of companies who are completely 'legitimate' through paper, but they still lack scruples. (ie. Corporate America)

I don't think anyone is trying to chase you out of this board, Autopia members are really laid back and open to new things, all you have to do is look at the Product Reviews forum and you'll see we will try anything once. However, your Detailer Association idea raises important questions. I think it is hard to advertise membership saying you will offer what people ask through feedback because it hasn't created an impetus to be interested.

Getting to join an association is just like advertising any business, and in this case detailers are asking 'what is in it for me besides dues?' Right now the answer is Insurance aide, group buys, and TSBs. Nothing wrong with that, but that is what it comes across to many, even if that is not the entire scope.
 
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