Need some help/tips with scratches on black...

[element_2nice]

Hey,

I will be detailing a black BMW which has lot of scratches around the body. My main concern are the scratches.

I did some research here, and thinking about going with Meg's #83 with the RPM around 3500 on a Porter Cable...

Just wondering if that would do the trick??



Also the exterior trims around the door have lot of scratches that I wanna remove. What will be the best way to do so??



Any help is much appreciated....



cheers

 

[stiffdogg06]

Rpm 3500? On a rotary or Porter Cable 7424/7336?



For rotary if they even go to 3500rpm will burn through that paint in 2 secs.



Porter cable 7424/7336, I dunno what 3500rpm would be on it, but 2-3 to SPREAD a product and 4-5 to WORK the product IN.

 

[element_2nice]

and wat about the scratches on the exterior window trims??? how can i remove those?

 

[ZoranC]

Based on your question I assume you haven't done this before. If I am correct I would advise you start with something (much) less aggressive than #83 and work it up from there if neccessary. You also need to take into account which pads you will be using, which you didn't mention.

 

[proplaya]

Im going to agree with Zoran and assume its your first time..if so, unless the black BMW is yours, you probably should practice with the PC on your own vehicles first..Especially if you're expecting to get paid for this BMW it would help if you familiarized yourself with different pad, product, and PC speed combos (1-6, not 1000 6000 rpms)

 

[element_2nice]

Based on your question I assume you haven't done this before. If I am correct I would advise you start with something (much) less aggressive than #83 and work it up from there if neccessary. You also need to take into account which pads you will be using, which you didn't mention.

hey....well its my friends car.....the reason i said #83 because the car has some bad scratches....but if you say so then I will use something less aggressive first. What # do you recommenced?

I haven't bought any pads yet, but what pads should i get??

thnx for the help!

 

[element_2nice]

The scratches are like these:

and

the above pics are not mine.....but it represents quite the same situation that i have....

the scratches are smaller in my case..

 

[imported_Totoland Mach]

Well, if the scratches are representative of what you have on the Bimmer, and all you have is a Porter-Cable, I'd recommend #83 or SSR 2.5 and a polish pad. It's going to be slow going to remove them with those tools and products.



Here's a black BMW 530i that I recently completed. I used a rotary and 3M extra cut compound with a wool pad to remove the heavy scratching, then #83 and a polish pad, then glaze and followed that with 3M Ultrifina SE.



Starting shot

After compounding

After Ultrafina SE

Trunk lip and rear bumper

Done

Using #83 will work on the car, but you are going to spend a lot of hours doing so. Good Luck with the job. I'd definitely go the rotary route if the scratches are as bad as you say.



Toto

 

[ZoranC]

If depth is same / similar then yes starting with something like #83 would be a good choice. Still you would benefit from getting something less aggressive in addition to #83 to follow up with after #83. So, #83, #80 maybe, and say two MYO 5.25" CCS pad 6-packs from Danase by going with 3 yellow, 3 orange, 3 green, and 3 white pads. That should cover you.

 

[tstead]

Noob question here, so please refrain from any laughter (or at least don't tell me you laughed.) I've been using a PC to remove minor spiderwebbing, light scratches in my cars for a few months now. I'm going to get a rotary later in the year and practice on some scrap panels I have through the fall/winter so I'll be ready come next spring to use it on my cars. With that in mind...the noob question follows:



How do you get such results with such heavy scratches? What is the process that goes on to remove those scratches that is done with a rotary that doesn't happen with a PC? I mean, it appears as though those are some pretty deep scratches that go all the way through the paint to the primer/base metal. I would think that scratches that bad would require a repaint. Since I see time and time again on this board where people take cars that look like they are in need of a paint job and restore them to where they look like they were repainted. How does that happen - are you just levelling the paint around the scratches (perhaps they aren't as deep as they look???)



Thanks for the insight.

 

[imported_mosborn9]

element 2nice, is this a paid job for you? The reason I ask is I'm not sure you realize the task ahead to get the type of results you are asking for.



Totoland Mach as you can see does some amazing work on BMW's and I'm sure he has spent a long time perfecting his technique and mastering the rotary. With only a PC and the shape of the vehicle you are describing you may want to consider trying to find an Autopian on this site in your area to work on the car. The detailer may even agree to let you and your friend assist. Just a thought.

 

[imported_Totoland Mach]

Noob question here, so please refrain from any laughter (or at least don't tell me you laughed.) I've been using a PC to remove minor spiderwebbing, light scratches in my cars for a few months now. I'm going to get a rotary later in the year and practice on some scrap panels I have through the fall/winter so I'll be ready come next spring to use it on my cars. With that in mind...the noob question follows:



How do you get such results with such heavy scratches? What is the process that goes on to remove those scratches that is done with a rotary that doesn't happen with a PC? I mean, it appears as though those are some pretty deep scratches that go all the way through the paint to the primer/base metal. I would think that scratches that bad would require a repaint. Since I see time and time again on this board where people take cars that look like they are in need of a paint job and restore them to where they look like they were repainted. How does that happen - are you just levelling the paint around the scratches (perhaps they aren't as deep as they look???)



Thanks for the insight.

Tim: heavy scratches and swirls can be repaired with a rotary polisher (DeWalt, Metabo, etc...I use a Metabo and a DeWalt at the shop) and the proper equipment. I was wetsanding followed by compounding, polishing, and glazing. Now, I'm finding that a wool pad with compounding does a better job of "leveling" the paint and correcting scratches.



Here's a BMW Z4 that I just finished and some process shots



What I started with:

Wool pad and compound on Fender

Power wash compound dust from car. You can see that the wool pad actually generates a set of swirls, but polishing and glazing will remove them later. I've seen dealership details where they actually stop at this step and think the car is done.

After finish polishing and waxing, the swirls and scratches are gone

Now, if a scratch was deep enough to go through the color coat, I would clean that area and touch up paint it (that's a whole different process). I typically fill stone chips and some scratches that are real deep, but the dealer will send some items out for a repaint (like a front bumper that is completely covered in stone chips. Overall, the car needs to be as close to "as new" as possible. All the BMW's I do are for resale and that's what the buyer expects.



Hope that helps.



Toto

 

[SVTcobra04]

Wow, you do some amazing work dude! looks awesome.

 

[JohnLINY]

Totoland Mach,

Awesome job! No wonder pre-owned BMWs look so good. What LSP do you use on Black? Are those pics before LSP?

 

[imported_Totoland Mach]

Totoland Mach,

Awesome job! No wonder pre-owned BMWs look so good. What LSP do you use on Black? Are those pics before LSP?

John: on black BMW's I use 2 products for LSP. First, the car gets 3M Ultrafina SE with their special foam pad. Second (and final) is Meguiar's #26. The Ultrafina really helps with long term swirl prevention (if the customer washes the car correctly). The detailer prior to my coming aboard used a compound then heavy glaze method and the dealer got complaints of the swirls re-appearing after a wash or 2. So far, in 8 months, no customer has said a thing about swirls re-appearing (and we see several of those customers monthly).



Toto

 

[gmblack3]

Hey,

I will be detailing a black BMW which has lot of scratches around the body. My main concern are the scratches.

I did some research here, and thinking about going with Meg's #83 with the RPM around 3500 on a Porter Cable...

Just wondering if that would do the trick??



Also the exterior trims around the door have lot of scratches that I wanna remove. What will be the best way to do so??



Any help is much appreciated....



cheers

Is it an E36 3 series? Those where built in the mid to late 90s. We detailed a silver E36 M3 in silver and found the clear to be very hard. Yellow pad/rotary with EC/OP would not remove all of the deep scratches, even after multi passes. Now I would just get the wool out.



Just be aware that doing major defect removal on most BMWs with a PC is going to take a long time. After speading out the polish with the PC off, the working it in for a bit at speed 4, you need to use speed 6 on your PC, apply good pressure and move at 1" per second.

 

[Vintage]

Well, if the scratches are representative of what you have on the Bimmer, and all you have is a Porter-Cable, I'd recommend #83 or SSR 2.5 and a polish pad. It's going to be slow going to remove them with those tools and products.



Here's a black BMW 530i that I recently completed. I used a rotary and 3M extra cut compound with a wool pad to remove the heavy scratching, then #83 and a polish pad, then glaze and followed that with 3M Ultrifina SE.



Starting shot

After compounding

After Ultrafina SE

Trunk lip and rear bumper

Done

Using #83 will work on the car, but you are going to spend a lot of hours doing so. Good Luck with the job. I'd definitely go the rotary route if the scratches are as bad as you say.



Toto

Hi Toto,



How long does it take you to do a car like that with a rotary? I've always just used a pc and experimented with different pad/polish combos as I don't do this everyday and am very intimidated by a rotary. For a guy like me, is it worth it to learn rotary or just stick to a pc and devote the extra time/elbow grease?



It always amazes me how pros like you can transform a garbage looking car into something that's worlds better than the showroom floor. Keep up the outstanding work!