Need more aggressive machine than ROB, Flex vs Rotary

A

ahheck01

New member
I've used my PC on many many cars, and for the tougher jobs, it just takes waaaay too long. I spend enough time on cars that don't matter to practice with a rotary, as I've heard there's a learning curve. That said, I'm trying to figure out what the best bang for the buck is.



What are the biggest pro's con's of each? What model of each would you recommend, for someone very budget conscious but making an investment?



I'll probably be selling my PC and buying the Griot's 6" based on what I've read here, too.



Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!
 
The Flex is a great machine, but a rotary does everything anybody needs. I would get a rotary, if taught correctly the learning curve is not that tough.





John
 
Best bang for the buck is to grab a Harbor Freight $40 rotary and practice on some beaters. I think the flex is a good in between but its pricey and I don't know of many pros that use them. I think the GG6 is so powerful that I don't find myself needing something in between. IMO the learning curve on a rotary can be mitigated by using lots of tape and staying far away from plastic. As long as you don't use extremely aggressive compounds to learn with, you will be fine. I'd recommend using something like megs #66 to learn with, its very easy to use with a rotary.
 
Hmm. Well I'm used to using the PC - will the GG6 be that much more effective for cutting than a PC? If I were to just use one machine and get really really good at using it, would I be better off with a rotary or the GG6?



Also, as for rotaries, what are the compromises of a $40 rotary vs a $150 or $300 one?



Thanks!
 
I've been out of the game for a good 8 months, so I'm going to refresh most everything. I was using Menzerna IP and FP primarily with the LC hydro pads (which I hated, fell apart soooo fast), and typically went straight to collonite insulator wax (forget the number - yellowish liquid with insulator wax on label in red). I want to have a much more effecient and effective process, so if I need to go to the SSR1-2.5 etc and use a rotary with foam pads or whatever, I'm open minded. I have a lot of learning to do before making purchases, but hoping you all can help. :)
 
Ahheck01 said:
Hmm. Well I'm used to using the PC - will the GG6 be that much more effective for cutting than a PC?
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Yes. My GG is infinitely more effective than either of my PCs.



If I were to just use one machine and get really really good at using it, would I be better off with a rotary or the GG6?
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IF you can truly master the rotary, it'd probably be the better choice. But IMO that's one very big "if" and FWIW I hardly ever touch either of my rotaries any more; I use my Flex 3401 for really aggressive work and my GG 6" or the Cyclos for most everything else. The only time I use the rotaries is when I need to employ rocks-in-a-bottle compounds and that is hardly ever the case.

Also, as for rotaries, what are the compromises of a $40 rotary vs a $150 or $300 one?
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Good ones maintain a constant speed regardless of load, that's probably the big diff. Also, different rotaries offer different minimum speeds, which may be an important factor. I have a Metabo and a Makita...neither is "better", they're just different, but both maintain the desired speed and that's important to me.
 
Ahheck01 said:
I want to have a much more effecient and effective process..
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Either the Flex 3401 or the GG 6" would be a huge step forward IMO, especially if you use one of the newer (and incredibly user-friendly) systems like the Optimum Hyper Compound/Polish twins or the new Meguiars' MF-based system.



Nice learning curves too, you'd be turning out great work in no time with minimal chances of an "oops!".
 
PS: Order 5" pads.



Of all the machines I'd suggest the flex for efficiency. With the rotary you'll need additional steps so it may not save time. m2c
 
tdekany said:
PS: Order 5" pads...
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If sticking with the PC I'd go so far as to say "order 4" pads". The 5-5.5" ones never worked all that well for me (that's the size I started PCing with way back when).



Of all the machines I'd suggest the flex for efficiency. With the rotary you'll need additional steps so it may not save time. m2c
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Yeah....I agree. But some people don't like the feel, or the "recoil" of the Flex 3401 (even though it never bothered me). I find it hard to say whether somebody'd like the Flex or the GG better :think: :nixweiss
 
The Flex is $320, the GG is $110, so if they're close, that makes things easy.



The question is whether investing in tools/pads/compounds for that is worth it, or if I'll ultimately wish I just went for the rotary. I just hate that feeling of being stuck with insufficient cutting power.



The other concern I have is the size thing. I feel like a rotary with a small pad is much easier to use to aggressively target thinner body panels of the 2-4" wide variety. Secondary to that is the counterweight/backing plate issue that requires you to break down the device each time you need to change the size of pad you're using - which is probably multiple times per detail given the different stages.



Thoughts?
 
Accumulator said:
Good ones maintain a constant speed regardless of load, that's probably the big diff.
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While that certainly is true, the great thing about the Harbor Freight NOT keeping a constant speed is that you have an audible indicator of your pad pressure. Once you set your desired "speed" you are forced to keep even pressure to keep that speed. And when you are learning, that is a good thing. Would I like a better rotary, sure would, but as long as my HF keeps churning along, I can't justify getting a better machine. I've had it for five or six years now, so it has already paid for itself.
 
yakky said:
While that certainly is true, the great thing about the Harbor Freight NOT keeping a constant speed is that you have an audible indicator of your pad pressure. Once you set your desired "speed" you are forced to keep even pressure to keep that speed. And when you are learning, that is a good thing. Would I like a better rotary, sure would, but as long as my HF keeps churning along, I can't justify getting a better machine. I've had it for five or six years now, so it has already paid for itself.
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I am constantly training my guys on proper paint correction. The problem with a China Harbor rotary polisher is that you don't have a variable speed trigger. "Control is everything" when using a rotary, and that requires constant change of speeds via the trigger. You're not going to burn paint on a flat panel, you're going to burn paint with the edge of your pad, not being aware of your surroundings. It takes a while to train on this, as every car is different, but knowing just how to attack each and every panel is extremely important.







John
 
Accumulator said:
. I find it hard to say whether somebody'd like the Flex or the GG better :think: :nixweiss
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I just received my GG and I will use it today. I still can't imagine that it would beat out the flex.
 
Ahheck01 said:
The Flex is $320, the GG is $110, so if they're close, that makes things easy.



The question is whether investing in tools/pads/compounds for that is worth it, or if I'll ultimately wish I just went for the rotary. I just hate that feeling of being stuck with insufficient cutting power...
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The whole "buy a rotary?" thing kinda boils down to, well...the "JohnKleven vs. Accumulator" difference of opinion (or is it "difference of preference"?). And IMO it's impossible to say which side of that fence you'll end up on :nixweiss He uses his rotaries almost exclusively, I hardly ever touch mine. Guys like Barry Theal and TH0001 use both regularly, they'd probably say "buy both".



If I felt I needed the rotary, I'd set the Flex down and use one. Which I *have done*, but only on very rare occasions.



The other concern I have is the size thing. I feel like a rotary with a small pad is much easier to use to aggressively target thinner body panels of the 2-4" wide variety.
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Yeah, that can sometimes be an issue, but not as often as one might think. Putting a 3" pad on the PC (I actually keep one of my old PCs set up that way) takes care of those rare cases for me.



Secondary to that is the counterweight/backing plate issue that requires you to break down the device each time you need to change the size of pad you're using - which is probably multiple times per detail given the different stages.
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Noting that there are no "small backing plates" for the Flex anyhow, changing the plate on the GG isn't all *that* much harder than changing to a smaller plate on the rotary. Yeah, it's a bit more work, but no biggie IMO.



Thoughts?
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Heh heh, I really don't think we can answer this one for you when it comes right down to it.



yakky said:
.. the great thing about the Harbor Freight NOT keeping a constant speed is that you have an audible indicator of your pad pressure.
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Hey, I never thought of that!



JohnKLeven said:
The problem with a China Harbor rotary polisher is that you don't have a variable speed trigger. "Control is everything" when using a rotary, and that requires constant change of speeds via the trigger.
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That's one *BIG* reason why I reach for the Makita instead of the Metabo for certain tasks.



tdekany said:
I just received my GG and I will use it today. I still can't imagine that it would beat out the flex.
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I predict that it will only "beat" the Flex 3401 with regard to final finishing, and even then only when going for the nth degree of gloss. But you may well find it a lot more user-friendly.



I'll be very interested to hear what you think; IMO it's just nice to have both of 'em. I prefer using the Cyclo over all others, but the Griot's is my second-fave. That doesn't make it best for all jobs though ;)
 
So, convenience argument aside then, which tool if mastered would be the most flexible for the widest range of uses, and why?
 
JohnKleven said:
I am constantly training my guys on proper paint correction. The problem with a China Harbor rotary polisher is that you don't have a variable speed trigger.
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Perhaps my model is different, but the speed wheel is right at my thumb, I find it very easy to adjust speed that way.
 
Ahheck01 said:
So, convenience argument aside then, which tool if mastered would be the most flexible for the widest range of uses, and why?
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I'd vote for the rotary, because it can do extremely aggressive correction very quickly and can arguably provide the highest level of gloss (can't prove that last bit by me, but I'll take JohnKleven's word for it).



It's that "if mastered" part that makes all the difference though; it's one thing to speak theoretically, quite another to do it in practice.



But I don't get the "which single polisher?" thing anyhow...nobody askes a mechanic "which single type of wrench is best?" and different situations can call for different tools.
 
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