Need guidance on paint/re-paint and repair

R

rmc_ss_ldo

Allen_B
Evening all...



I have been lurking and reading for what seems like an eternity and thanks to search and following various threads, I have had SO many questions answered, not needing to start a new thread :2thumbs: ...... this is the most informative spot I think I have ever found.



I'm hoping there are some good paint-and-body folks here (or know some) that can field a few questions and can give some sound advice. 1st a little back-ground..... I am the VERY proud and picky owner of a 2002 Camaro SS Convertable that is, of course, BLACK!! Our baby only has about 4200 loving miles and I have had (IMO) great results with Zaino keeping the finish looking very wet (no Zaino haters.... please ;) ), but I have a MAJOR problem...



We are in the process of relocating from Hawaii back to the mainland and the car was shipped using a private carrier (name not important for now). When the car was dropped off for shipment, the inspector spent 2 hours trying to find hits and came up with ZERO- inside and out and said that it was the best looking vehicle he had ever seen :woot:.



Of course, it did not look the same when it was delivered on the other end. They managed to scatch EVERY panel on the car. We are waiting on word from the shipping company as to what they intend to do (we are bracing for a fight) and the initial estimate for repairs to the finish is over $1700.



I am an enthusiast, at best when it comes to detailing, but I know what I like. I know NOTHING about painting or repairing paint damage. I need to know what to look for and the things I should insist on when getting the paint fixed. The appraiser sent out by the shipping company hinted that the car should just be "buffed out" and be done with it, to which I offered a size 11 red-wing suppository (thankfully, I was not present when he was there)- the last thing I want is all of my clear-coat buffed off!



While I am not, by any means, an expert it seems to me that the only way to fix it correctly is to strip it down, re-paint and then re-clear coat the entire car so it matches. Am I off base here? I have heard from various sources that black is the most challenging color to paint and buff; I can only attest it is the most challenging to keep looking it's best!



Please advise what to insist on and what to look out for! My goal is not to get it fixed right now, just to fix it right the first time with lasting results. I'm just worried I'll get screwed on this :nervous2: .....



Thanks,

Allen



P.S. Anyone have excellent references on a paint-and-body shop in the Kings Bay Georgia/Jacksonville Florida area?!
 
>Bump<



No one here has any suggestions?



Am I off base thinking that scratch repair and buffing on a large scale (basically the whole car) is a bad idea? How much clear-coat would be killed doing this?



I am NOT by any means an expert, so if a simpler repair (as opposed to re-shooting the whole car) is the answer, please advise!



Thanks,

Allen
 
I will give this a stab...



Being able to buff out the scratches depends on their depth. If they are down to the paint, nothing short of more paint is going to fix them. If they are in the clear, a PROPERLY skilled detailer can take them out without doing any damage. However, most of the Yahoos that an insurance company might use could easily do more damage than good with a rotary buffer on those scratches. Can you get any pictures of the scratches to show the degree to which the paint has been damaged?



If the scratches are deep, there are again some options. If it was on your dime, I would suggest something similar to the Norton chip repiar system. We have used it on high end cars and the results were perfect. However, this is not something I would suggest for you seeing as cost is not a concern.



Depending on the number of panels damaged, you are right in assuming that they might have to paint the entire vehicle. Until recently, the common practice was to repaint the damaged spot and re-clear the entire panel. I hear that BASF has a new procedure out that allows a repair to be feathered in over a smaller area but I don't know anything about that yet. If they are going to repaint the entire car, find a quality body shop. That will make all the difference in the world. I personally find that people who deal with higher end cars are used to picky customers and therefore *often* do better work. The local BMW certified shop here in Atlanta happens to be one of the best I have ever found.



I am so sorry to hear about the damage to your car. I hope it gets taken care of soon.



-GT
 
rmc_ss- Welcome to Autopia, and sorry to hear about what happened to your F-body.



Echoing what GTScott said, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it needs repainted. Many seemingly awful problems really *can* be buffed out by somebody who knows what they're doing. Yeah, it'll take off clear, but that's just the way it goes. Even if some scratches are too deep to fix, the spot-repairs are certainly worth considering, espeically on (nonmetallic) black.



Repainting the whole car, on the other hand, is a really huge undertaking. To do it right, the vehicle has to be dissassembled, the glass removed, the weathestrips removed and replaced, etc. etc. to have a factory-quality job. It costs many thousands of dollars to have a vehicle repainted well enough for me and it's really tough to find a shop that can do the work to my satisfaction. I'd absolutely consider this the last resort option. I often say "better imperfect paint than a repaint", and I really mean it. I've had a lot of cars repainted over the years, and cost was never an issue with me- yet I can count the satisfactory jobs on one hand. But yeah, I'm very particular.
 
Allen:



Welcome aboard and I am sorry to hear about your misfortune's. When I moved back East after leaving Honolulu (spent 10 years there) I sold my ride cause I didn't want to deal with those types of hassels.



I do Autobody work on my own cars and paint them as well. Obviously I do the detailing as well so I'll give you my opinion on the differences.



Detailing has to do with maintaining a car's finish when it comes to paint. Defect removal is limited to what is "on" the finish or slightly below the Clear Coat. Scratches that go deep into the paint, down to primer, or worse yet bare metal can be "touched up" with varying degrees of success depending on how wide and long they are. Often however you'll not get it looking factory new.



Autobody work and painting is the whole shbang. Repairs are effected to the underlying metal if required, then filled over and sanded, and finally primed and painted. The final product when done by a reputable shop or dealership will look as if nothing had ever happend and last as long as the original panels and paint will. With a warranty to such.



Alot of people groan about the costs of repainting a car or even getting panel work done.

What is little mentioned is that every paint manufacturer has specific technical quidelines on how to use thier products to effect a warrantied spot/panel/ repairs and a full repaint. This preserves both the paint manufactuers warranty and the one from the factory.



So they are not going to just slap some paint on and call it a day, nor are they going to cut corners. But instead follow those guidelines. It's not because they are dumb or don't know the latest techniques but because that is what they are paid to do.



In your case, giving you admitted lack of knowledge on the subject, the car is fairly new, and your desire to restore it my adive is this.



Take the car to a bodyshop at the dealership and have them inspect it, yes they are the

most expensive for any type of repair, but they "have to" do any repair to factory specs.



You can get other quotes but they will have to meet the dealerships quality of work and warranty and not just offer a lower price.



In the meantime you should give it a good wash and dry. Then with a good light souce and a non scratching thin towel or with some white golves go over every inch of the panel to feel/look for any dings or paint chips. Scratches that are deep enough to catch a finger nail cannot be buffed out but will need the "paint" to be repaired.



lastly wander over to the Auto Body Store and check the fourms there both for advice and help in locating a paint shop in your area.



It's run buy a guy (Len Stuart) with his own family business (Autobody of course) and plenty of novices and pro's hang out there.



Sorry for the long post
 
I appreciate the replies.... just trying to figure the best way to approach this.



One compromise I'm looking at is to prep the scratches myself (using the guidance provided on this site) then have it re-clearcoated similar to what has been mentioned. Will this work- can the car be buffed and re-clear-coated with good results (without having to re-shoot the black paint)? Just worried about ripples and funky stuff showing up- as I said before, I know nothing about paint work so this is a true learning experience. Curious if anyone has had this done or has seen the results of someone who has tried it.



PakShak- the shipment was booked thru Dependable Auto Shippers (DAS). The cross-pacific portion was via Horizon (right next to Matson out here on Oahu); after hitting the west-coast terminal I really have no idea. I shipped a vehicle from the east coast to Oahu when I originally came out thru DAS and it went very well- no issues. I'm getting VERY pissed at this point since it has been over a month since we filed a claim thru DAS and nothing! :hairpull I have emailed back-and-forth with the "Senior Retail Recovery Adjuster" to no avail so far. My next conversations will be with legal..... I've been patient, but have had enough :wall .



Thanks to all. I still have not seen the car in person (I'm still in Hawaii), but my better half really wants to try to get it fixed before I get there Dec 15th. I have told her not to rush anything, she just knows I will loose my freakin mind when I see it! :furious:



Allen
 
Accumulator said:
.... *can* be buffed out by somebody who knows what they're doing. Yeah, it'll take off clear, but that's just the way it goes. Even if some scratches are too deep to fix, the spot-repairs are certainly worth considering, espeically on (nonmetallic) black...
Click to expand...



The issue is finding someone who can! I am getting a PC and more than willing to take a crack at it, but this is not how I intended to learn! :buffing:



Allen
 
rmc_ss:



What is going to matter most is how deep and long these scratches are. If the scratches are only in the clear coat you may be able to buff them out although a PC is limited in what it can do.



If the scratches are through the clear coat and the paint (down to primer) again no one with no amount of experience with any machine is going to be able to buff that out.



You always have the option of getting some touch up paint from the dealership and trying your hand at that. But generally if a spot on a panel needs to be repaired, they are going to do the repair and re-clear the entire panel. You may find someone who will try to "blend" the clear for you though.
 
Yeah, if the scratches are too deep to be polished out then the area should be repainted, by a pro. Note that the PC will not remove some defects that a rotary would, but it's a good safe way to start (and to evaluate just how bad the scratches are).



Reclearing the whole car isn't feasible according to the painters I know. Just accept the loss of clear from the polishing and hope for the best.



I suspect that the damage generally looks worse than it is and that only a few areas might really need repainted.
 
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