Accumulator
Well-known member
IMO a recommendation from Stokdgs is really something, so even if peterp doesn`t go that route I`m glad the suggestion got posted.
Need advice on how to clean up 2005 car that seems like it was never washed
- Thread starter peterp
- Start date
I did get a chance to clean up the engine a bit on the 45 degree day just before I took it in the shop. This was the first pass with mostly ONR and a little bit of Castrol degreaser for difficult spots, followed by more ONR. The shop promised to clean up the engine a bit more while they have it apart, and then I will probably give it another pass when I get it back.
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Accumulator
Well-known member
peterp- Ah, that`s shaping up quite nicely! Sure glad there`s no rust. IMO you found a great diamond in the rough with that one.
I know I`m late to the party, but that looks like a case of classic rail dust. The term rail dust comes from iron contamination resulting from trains wheels contacting the tracks and in braking/accel/slip situations creating airborn iron that can travel in the air or stick to cargo (new cars being transported by train).
In this case, it looks like the rail dust is a result of brake pad abuse, actually letting the brake pads wear out to where there was no pad material left, and the pad backing plate (metal) was grinding on the rotor, and making the same situation occur. As the metal grinds, iron particles become airborne, sticking to the wheel mostly as that encapsolates the rotor to a large degree, but as the car is in motion, some flies out of the wheel area and onto the paint behind it. It may not be obvious at first, but then moisture and in this case salt (NY/NJ/New England roads) cause the iron to oxidize and turn orange. This happens rapidly and the more there is, the more it bonds to the surface.
This can be a case of neglect (letting pads wear out, maybe without even noticing if not a `car person`), even some people knowing the pads are worn and just choosing to leave it as is. Another case could be stuck calipers, that wear pads rapidly, and in the case of metallic pads, the brake dust itself could cause rust.
For the oxidation/rust specifically, you will need an iron remover. I have used iron-x on wheels that had stuck calipers leading to a similar look as your wheels. Remove the wheel from the vehicle when you do this though, and do so in a well ventilated area as most iron removers STINK.
In this case, it looks like the rail dust is a result of brake pad abuse, actually letting the brake pads wear out to where there was no pad material left, and the pad backing plate (metal) was grinding on the rotor, and making the same situation occur. As the metal grinds, iron particles become airborne, sticking to the wheel mostly as that encapsolates the rotor to a large degree, but as the car is in motion, some flies out of the wheel area and onto the paint behind it. It may not be obvious at first, but then moisture and in this case salt (NY/NJ/New England roads) cause the iron to oxidize and turn orange. This happens rapidly and the more there is, the more it bonds to the surface.
This can be a case of neglect (letting pads wear out, maybe without even noticing if not a `car person`), even some people knowing the pads are worn and just choosing to leave it as is. Another case could be stuck calipers, that wear pads rapidly, and in the case of metallic pads, the brake dust itself could cause rust.
For the oxidation/rust specifically, you will need an iron remover. I have used iron-x on wheels that had stuck calipers leading to a similar look as your wheels. Remove the wheel from the vehicle when you do this though, and do so in a well ventilated area as most iron removers STINK.
It does look quite a bit like like embedded rusted brake dust on the wheels. I see from the service records that the brakes (discs and pads) were replaced at 31k miles, which seems to be a reasonable interval, but it`s impossible to know how worn the brakes were at that time. They are replacing the front calipers/discs/pads now at 56k miles and say the rears look fine. What`s odd is that the brown staining appears to be pretty uniform across all 4 wheels, where if it was directly the result of brake dust, it seems like it would be more prevalent in the front or in whichever set of brakes were ignored for replacement. I kind of like the very light gold hue of the wheels (if they didn`t look like garbage), but I`m 99% positive they are silver when clean. I`ve attached a higher resolution photo of one of the wheels below (they all look roughly the same).
I already have Sonax Wheel Cleaner Plus (which I think has some iron removers in it) and also Carpro Iron-X in the garage currently. Would these be the products to try, or is there something better?
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Accumulator
Well-known member
Peterp- Maybe the wheels got rotated regularly, that could explain the uniform staining.
IME the IronX is pretty mild, you you might need to find something more potent. Sorry, not sure what that`d be as I don`t use really aggressive Wheel Cleaners like Meguiar`s Wheel Brightener (which might be the exact right thing in this case).
I can`t recall whether those wheels were gold(ish) or silver originally, for a while there Gold-tone wheels were kinda common on certain cars.
IME the IronX is pretty mild, you you might need to find something more potent. Sorry, not sure what that`d be as I don`t use really aggressive Wheel Cleaners like Meguiar`s Wheel Brightener (which might be the exact right thing in this case).
I can`t recall whether those wheels were gold(ish) or silver originally, for a while there Gold-tone wheels were kinda common on certain cars.
The iron-x is a good place to start. The sonax does have fallout removers, but the wheel cleaner isn`t designed for anything this extreme. I had good luck with iron-x on a wheel that was completely trashed. Do a test spot inside the wheel first, and let the chemical do it`s job, just don`t let it dry on the wheel.
MattPersman
New member
A wheel acid (Poorboys spray and rinse) or non acid (flash brown royal) would be good for this wheel. May need a magic eraser and or brush for the initial cleaning. Don’t forget PPE like gloves etc
Meguiars wheel brightener isn’t that strong for an acid product. It’s more of a maintenance product.
The production companies like malco, automagic, car brite etc have stronger acids that are nearly spray on and pressure wash off.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Meguiars wheel brightener isn’t that strong for an acid product. It’s more of a maintenance product.
The production companies like malco, automagic, car brite etc have stronger acids that are nearly spray on and pressure wash off.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Those rotors and calipers shouldn’t be worn out at 56k. Pads yes. Our 2006 Ridgeline that we bought new I replaced pads at 70k (rotors were fine). Just a couple months ago at 152k I replaced pads for the 2nd time and rotors (first time) with Honda parts. Didn’t put a micrometer on the rotors, just kind of figured they were worn after that many miles. But since you are giving it to your sister having a sense of security about the car, especially the brakes, is great
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Peterp !!!
Wow ! You did a GREAT job on the engine !!!
I always use Meguiars Super Degreaser diluted at 6:1 or 4:1, and get excellent results, with a good, pressure wash rinse..
Your Castrol Degreaser is probably a similar product and that is why you achieved that super great result..
I would use what you have already for the wheels, read the directions, follow them, stay on them to insure they get rinsed a lot to get all the product off..
I always use Meguiars Wheel Brightener for wheels that are full of brake dust like yours, and it has always done the job.. It also has to be diluted, because it is pretty strong .
Like you have already been advised above, use good, long, rubber gloves, wear clothing that you wont mind wrecking if that happens, if you have a mask, wear that, so you dont inhale too much of the fumes, eye protection, and a good plastic thin handle brush to get in between all those areas, to get the product working initially.. Let it sit for as long as the directions say, and rinse it off..
You may have to repeat the process a few times, just see how the dust reacts to the work..
In my experiences with wheels like this, I spray the Meguiars Wheel Brightener on the entire wheel and the inner wheel, let it sit, scrub the heck out of it, let it sit, and then use my pressure washer up close but not too close, to help move all that stuff off.. Pressure washer tip is a FAN style tip, never use a pointed tip on anything unless you are wanting to drill a hole there..
You are doing great !!!
Dan F
Wow ! You did a GREAT job on the engine !!!
I always use Meguiars Super Degreaser diluted at 6:1 or 4:1, and get excellent results, with a good, pressure wash rinse..
Your Castrol Degreaser is probably a similar product and that is why you achieved that super great result..
I would use what you have already for the wheels, read the directions, follow them, stay on them to insure they get rinsed a lot to get all the product off..
I always use Meguiars Wheel Brightener for wheels that are full of brake dust like yours, and it has always done the job.. It also has to be diluted, because it is pretty strong .
Like you have already been advised above, use good, long, rubber gloves, wear clothing that you wont mind wrecking if that happens, if you have a mask, wear that, so you dont inhale too much of the fumes, eye protection, and a good plastic thin handle brush to get in between all those areas, to get the product working initially.. Let it sit for as long as the directions say, and rinse it off..
You may have to repeat the process a few times, just see how the dust reacts to the work..
In my experiences with wheels like this, I spray the Meguiars Wheel Brightener on the entire wheel and the inner wheel, let it sit, scrub the heck out of it, let it sit, and then use my pressure washer up close but not too close, to help move all that stuff off.. Pressure washer tip is a FAN style tip, never use a pointed tip on anything unless you are wanting to drill a hole there..
You are doing great !!!
Dan F
Thanks for all the great feedback. I have a product I bought from the UK called "Wonder Wheels" wheel cleaner that is pretty strong. I wonder how that compares to Meguiars Wheel Brightener. The Meguiars seems like a screaming good deal in quantity, but I wish it came in something smaller than 1 gallon.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
peterp ----
I dont have any experience with your UK product.. I would read the directions, see if you can find a forum that talks about it somewhere, and try it out on a spot.. It might be just as good or better...
Read the directions carefully and make sure it does not say something like " Do not use on clear-coated wheels", etc...
Yes, I have never seen Meguiars Wheel Brightener in a size smaller than 1 gallon.. Sorry..
Dan F
fly07sti
New member
If you could get your hands on some Brown Royal for those wheels, I’m sure it would help greatly.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
fly07sti
New member
IME, the best/least expensive way to purchase is to buy directly from Flash. $22/gallon $8/quart.
I finally got the Saab back from mechanical work. It drove great before but drives even better now. Mechanical work was excellent, they screwed up a couple of things trying to "clean up". One of the things was the wheels, which now have been stripped and repainted. They didn`t do any cleanup on the rest of the bodywork, so I kind got my wish of being able to do the cleanup myself (it was single digit temps when I put it in for service, so I literally could not do the cleanup myself back then).
I cleaned up the interior yesterday and started work on the exterior today. I`m certain the car literally has never been polished in its life, so it took a long time to get clean. I started with Optima car wash and let it dwell for a while keeping it wet, which did remove some of the black "dots" in the paint. Then I used Iron-X on the paint with pretty amazing results -- I had to do the bottom panels several times, but it removed almost all of the stains (but didn`t take off any more black dots). I was shocked at how smooth the paint was after Iron-x -- almost felt clayed. Then I used mothers clay bar with ONR mix as lube and was able to remove the remaining black dots and a couple of stains that remained. I did all the door jambs also. It was a very long process and I barely have the energy to type, but I can finally see clean paint.
The good thing about a never polished car is that, once you (eventually) get the paint clean, there are no swirl marks. My next steps (and questions are) are:
1. P21S paint cleanser <- should I use by hand or machine? (I have Porter Cable DA).
2. Chemical Guys V38 <- should I do this? -- there are no swirls or imperfections and it`s surprisingly shiny, but maybe would increase shine (would definitely use DA)
3. Meg Ultimate Wax <- I know there are more esoteric waxes, but I like Ultimate a lot <- should I use DA or by hand?
4. Opt-Seal <- Love Opti-seal will apply now, and again when after I wash before delivering car to my sister <- is Meg Ultimate an ok base for Opti-seal?
Here are a couple pics of it unpolished -- after just intense wash/Iron-X/Clay (there is a bit of rain on the car, looks a bit shiner dry)
I cleaned up the interior yesterday and started work on the exterior today. I`m certain the car literally has never been polished in its life, so it took a long time to get clean. I started with Optima car wash and let it dwell for a while keeping it wet, which did remove some of the black "dots" in the paint. Then I used Iron-X on the paint with pretty amazing results -- I had to do the bottom panels several times, but it removed almost all of the stains (but didn`t take off any more black dots). I was shocked at how smooth the paint was after Iron-x -- almost felt clayed. Then I used mothers clay bar with ONR mix as lube and was able to remove the remaining black dots and a couple of stains that remained. I did all the door jambs also. It was a very long process and I barely have the energy to type, but I can finally see clean paint.
The good thing about a never polished car is that, once you (eventually) get the paint clean, there are no swirl marks. My next steps (and questions are) are:
1. P21S paint cleanser <- should I use by hand or machine? (I have Porter Cable DA).
2. Chemical Guys V38 <- should I do this? -- there are no swirls or imperfections and it`s surprisingly shiny, but maybe would increase shine (would definitely use DA)
3. Meg Ultimate Wax <- I know there are more esoteric waxes, but I like Ultimate a lot <- should I use DA or by hand?
4. Opt-Seal <- Love Opti-seal will apply now, and again when after I wash before delivering car to my sister <- is Meg Ultimate an ok base for Opti-seal?
Here are a couple pics of it unpolished -- after just intense wash/Iron-X/Clay (there is a bit of rain on the car, looks a bit shiner dry)
Attachments
Looks like a great find and great work on so far. And sometimes an unwashed car is better than someone have compounding off most of the clearcoat and since not touched that much the lesser swirl.
Next time you have these black spots that most likely is tar spots. Start with a great tar remover and followed by an iron remover. Sometimes the tar easier get cought in the iron particals and kind of embedded them. That`s why I always start with the tar remover and then the iron remover. You solved it though with the clay but it`s more easier with chemicals.
The P21s paint cleanser seems to have abrasive in it or at least something abrasive. So if you get a clear glossy finish without any marring and scratches. And you like what you see. Then I would skip the V38 polish. The P21s paint cleanser is also great to cleaning up the paint from those contaminants that the clay or chemicals didn`t get off. And I would use a light polishing pad of some sort on your XP polisher. Of course do a test spot first and see what you get. If not getting you there go with a more aggressive polish and polishing pad. I have not used Chemical Guys polishes but seen many that has been disappointed with them so maybe go with another brand would be good.
Have no experience with Ultimate wax or Opti-Seal. But both are synthetic so it may work. And also if you get a lot of streaking or problems with the combo you know it can be they are not compatible with each other.
Looking forward see the finished results and how your sister reacted when she get it.
/ Tony
Next time you have these black spots that most likely is tar spots. Start with a great tar remover and followed by an iron remover. Sometimes the tar easier get cought in the iron particals and kind of embedded them. That`s why I always start with the tar remover and then the iron remover. You solved it though with the clay but it`s more easier with chemicals.
The P21s paint cleanser seems to have abrasive in it or at least something abrasive. So if you get a clear glossy finish without any marring and scratches. And you like what you see. Then I would skip the V38 polish. The P21s paint cleanser is also great to cleaning up the paint from those contaminants that the clay or chemicals didn`t get off. And I would use a light polishing pad of some sort on your XP polisher. Of course do a test spot first and see what you get. If not getting you there go with a more aggressive polish and polishing pad. I have not used Chemical Guys polishes but seen many that has been disappointed with them so maybe go with another brand would be good.
Have no experience with Ultimate wax or Opti-Seal. But both are synthetic so it may work. And also if you get a lot of streaking or problems with the combo you know it can be they are not compatible with each other.
Looking forward see the finished results and how your sister reacted when she get it.
/ Tony
Thanks Tony. Tar remover up front would have definitely helped a lot. I did eventually get it out, but would have been easier and better to hit it with chemicals.
I used Menzerna before but (at least in the old bottle style) I had 3 different bottles dry up on me -- probably my fault because only rarely do I need to deep polish a car, so I have the bottles sitting for years. For this, where I`ve got the paint clean and fairly shiny, hopefully the CG V38 will be good enough (if I need it at all). I also have the V36, but don`t think I need that. I`ll take your advice to start with P21S cleanser and then decide whether V38 is needed.
I do know from past experience that Opti-seal will go over Ultimate without issue, but I don`t know whether having Ultimate under Opt-seal will make the Opti-seal less durable. I want to put a few coats of Opti-seal on before she gets the car as she is not exactly a paint maintenance freak (though that may change at least a little when she gets the "new" car).