Need advice for a basic GG6 setup: 2014 MB E350

B

bltoe12345

New member
Hi folks,

It has been a while since I`ve been on the forum and a lot has certainly changed. My Dad is looking to start taking care of the exterior on his newish Benz and I could use some help in coming up with a solid regimen for him. I should stress he has very limited experience with detailing and is looking for a relatively straightforward regimen. I`m hoping he doesn`t get frustrated and give up. The car is a BLACK 2014 E350 that is garaged but sees daily Florida sun, etc. There are plenty of swirl marks and spider webbing from dealership car washes but otherwise no major issues to report like deep scratches.

I`ve done some research to get reacquainted with the latest and greatest products and here is the direction I am currently considering:

Griots Garage 6" Polisher HD
Buff and Shine 5" backing plate
5.5" Buff and Shine flat pads (5 green, 3 orange, 2 black, 2 blue)
2x Meguiar`s MF cutting pads
HD Polish
Quality MF towels
P21S Wax


I haven`t decided on a compound to try but was thinking Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound since I have a leftover bottle. I keep coming across the Menzerna line in regards to the clear coat on the car (rock-hard ceramic?) and am wondering if that would be a better direction to explore. Any recommendations would be appreciated!
 
You mentioned that he wanted to get on a Regimen to take care of the exterior of the car. But you mainly posted up equipment for paint correction. If he is looking to get the vehicle paint corrected and then maintain it himself, I would approach this differently. From what it seems, your father can get impatient (If that seems cruel, I apologize). I would probably have a reputable local detailer fully detail his car. Then he can keep it clean and swirl free with a nice car care package. If you took this route I would purchase the following for him.

(3) 5 Gallon buckets w/ grit guards and Gamma seals (2 for paint and one for wheels)
Aussie Wool Mitt
Car shampoo of your choice. (A wash and wax like meguiars or adams should be good)
A dozen or so Microfiber towels
Wheel cleaner (Nanolex or Sonax)
Wheel brushes (Preferably Wheel whoolies and a lugnut brush)
Fender well brush
Foam gun would definitely help with swirl prevention
A good paste wax
 
Thanks for the feedback. Guz, I will take a look at that thread. TheDetailer, very good points.

I have a two bucket setup with grit-guards, soap, mitts, sonax wheel cleaner, wheel brushes, mix of meguiar`s pro line products, MF`s etc. that I will be giving to him since I won`t have a use for the next 1.5+ years. I am intrigued by waterless washing though. My folks are on well water and it is a nightmare. My Dad mentioned going to the local coin-op to wash then driving home (6+ miles) before wiping down at home with a QD...but I convinced him otherwise. Any quick thoughts on the waterless route? Like I said the car is rarely not immaculate so there wouldn`t be lots of dirt or debris to remove. He is a very anal guy (military) so I think this could be relaxing for him lol.

I think the basics should be covered. I had plenty of experience using a PC years ago and I feel confident I can get him up and running with a DA i.e. GG6.
 
bltoe12345 said:
Thanks for the feedback. Guz, I will take a look at that thread. TheDetailer, very good points.

I have a two bucket setup with grit-guards, soap, mitts, sonax wheel cleaner, wheel brushes, mix of meguiar`s pro line products, MF`s etc. that I will be giving to him since I won`t have a use for the next 1.5+ years. I am intrigued by waterless washing though. My folks are on well water and it is a nightmare. My Dad mentioned going to the local coin-op to wash then driving home (6+ miles) before wiping down at home with a QD...but I convinced him otherwise. Any quick thoughts on the waterless route? Like I said the car is rarely not immaculate so there wouldn`t be lots of dirt or debris to remove. He is a very anal guy (military) so I think this could be relaxing for him lol.

I think the basics should be covered. I had plenty of experience using a PC years ago and I feel confident I can get him up and running with a DA i.e. GG6.
Click to expand...

For WW, there are several great options. But I`d recommend Wolfgang Uber.

Wolfgang Uber Rinseless Wash

Mix .5 oz with 24 oz of distilled water in a spray bottle. This one 16 oz container will last quite a while. Grab him a dozen or so plush edgeless microfibers and go to town.
 
boomdone said:
For WW, there are several great options. But I`d recommend Wolfgang Uber.

Wolfgang Uber Rinseless Wash

Mix .5 oz with 24 oz of distilled water in a spray bottle. This one 16 oz container will last quite a while. Grab him a dozen or so plush edgeless microfibers and go to town.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. WW seems like a perfect solution for their water quality issues and degree of dirt normally on his car. Time to do even more reading. I forgot how overwhelming this hobby can be!
 
bltoe12345 said:
Thanks for the feedback. Guz, I will take a look at that thread. TheDetailer, very good points.

I have a two bucket setup with grit-guards, soap, mitts, sonax wheel cleaner, wheel brushes, mix of meguiar`s pro line products, MF`s etc. that I will be giving to him since I won`t have a use for the next 1.5+ years. I am intrigued by waterless washing though. My folks are on well water and it is a nightmare. My Dad mentioned going to the local coin-op to wash then driving home (6+ miles) before wiping down at home with a QD...but I convinced him otherwise. Any quick thoughts on the waterless route? Like I said the car is rarely not immaculate so there wouldn`t be lots of dirt or debris to remove. He is a very anal guy (military) so I think this could be relaxing for him lol.

I think the basics should be covered. I had plenty of experience using a PC years ago and I feel confident I can get him up and running with a DA i.e. GG6.
Click to expand...

For the well water, you can purchase a CR spotless water filtration system if you really wanted to.

I personally don`t use Waterless wash regimens. I don`t like them. That is just my 2 cents though, many people have used them and have had awesome results.

I would recommend a rinse less wash though, I would use 2 buckets. Fill one bucket with clean water, then fill another bucket with microfiber towels or a wash mitt and the recommend amount of shampoo. And just wash it one panel at a time making sure to clean the microfibers/wash mitt frequently in the rinse bucket.
 
Ronkh said:
Pretty close to PBMG
Click to expand...
Yeah Stuart isn`t far at all. I often pass through on the way to WPB. I`m not that familiar with their operations though. Are they open to the public? Shop on site?

TheDetailer718 said:
For the well water, you can purchase a CR spotless water filtration system if you really wanted to.

I personally don`t use Waterless wash regimens. I don`t like them. That is just my 2 cents though, many people have used them and have had awesome results.

I would recommend a rinse less wash though, I would use 2 buckets. Fill one bucket with clean water, then fill another bucket with microfiber towels or a wash mitt and the recommend amount of shampoo. And just wash it one panel at a time making sure to clean the microfibers/wash mitt frequently in the rinse bucket.
Click to expand...

I`ll start looking into rinseless options. I doubt he would be interested in going with a water filtration system but rinseless may prove to be a good compromise.
 
bltoe12345 said:
Yeah Stuart isn`t far at all. I often pass through on the way to WPB. I`m not that familiar with their operations though. Are they open to the public? Shop on site?




I`ll start looking into rinseless options. I doubt he would be interested in going with a water filtration system but rinseless may prove to be a good compromise.
Click to expand...

You can use Uber for both rinseless and waterless washing as an FYI.
 
The Menzerma line is great and you have microfiber pads so I would try 400 on the microfiber pads and finish up with 3500. Do a test spot to see what works, but that MB clearcoat is tough and I`m pretty certain this combo will work out very good.
 
You mentioned the Megs MF cutting pads, yes? I`d say go with Megs D-300 compound on that hard MB paint. It`ll correct like crazy, and doesn`t take 8, 10 or more passes to do so. The trick though with MF pads is KEEP THEM CLEAN. Do a section, grab your air hose (with the blowing attachment) and blow outside in, inside out. Do that clockwise, then counter-clockwise. It`ll clean the pad, cool the pad, and stand the fibers back up. :)

I don`t really like working with MF pads without air. Some do, I`m just not one of them. ;)

Megs D300 is pretty awesome stuff.... easily my go-to from Megs these last 3 years. (Whether that be MF or foam pads.) Also they have D-302 polish that`s stupid easy to work with, along with D301 Finishing Wax. The thing with D301 is it`s a finishing product that adds a bit of protection. You might... or might not want that. (Depending on what LSP you plan on using.)

One neat way to use the MF pads is buy the Meguiar`s Microfiber Correction Kit that comes with 2 cutting and 2 finishing pads, a bottle of D300 and D301, a DEDICATED 5" backing plate that is designed to work with the Meguiar`s pads (it`s a Velcro thing) and they even throw in a fancy lil` Meguiar`s detailing apron. I liked it so much the first time I found it I bought TWO kits. LOL

Actually... if your Dad likes his local coin wash, (and doesn`t use the stupid brush) it`s certainly an option.

Of course that is AFTER the car has been corrected, and you have a nice LSP on it. Chances are the coin wash has a decent water filter (rather than the well water down your way that is so rough with calcium and lime).

Were he to want to go the rinseless route, that`ll take distilled water OR if he`s got a dehumidifier he can use that water. It`ll also take a couple dozen GOOD microfiber towels. I`d say at least 360, 400 or 500 gsm towels. Get one of those 51oz pump sprayers and put your rinseless mix in that. Then put 2~3 gallons in a bucket with a grit guard, THEN put at least a dozen towels in that mixture. Start at the top, and with LIGHTLY moving the towels across the surface. I`m so OCD I don`t even go in circles, straight lines only, back to front, or front to back. One towel goes down and back on one side then turn it over and down and back on the other. (Half a towel). I`ll use 2~3 towels for the hood, 2~3 for the roof, 3~4 for each side, 1 for the trunk, 1 for the front, another for the rear bumper(s). You can use the back of a towel to do the glass, mirrors, grills, lights, etc. but not the paint.

The problem there however is you have to dry with something. That means rubbing the surface for most folks. If I have to dry something I`ll just lay the drying towel of choice on the surface and lightly pat and rub the *back* of the towel, rather than dragging the towel all over the paint.

OTOH.... if the paint has been corrected and a coating applied, you can dry it with a leaf blower REALLY easily. Blowers can be had for well under $90 out the door. I`d look more at the max CFM rather than the max air speed. Of course the max speed WITH the max CFM is your best pick. ;) I can dry a crew cab short bed with a blower in minutes compared to half an hour with towels. :D

Being as you said you`re taking him the buckets and grit guards that`s a good start. Might could throw in a $179 electric pressure washer (were it not for well water) and a foam cannon and he`d be having fun in a hurry. :) Speaking of foam..... Megs Hyperwash is AWESOME in a foam cannon. I use that, Mr. Pink, Honeydew, and sometimes DG 901 exclusively. For a coated vehicle that`s just dusty from driving, a quick spray to get the dust, a foaming to pull the dirt, another spray, then a sheeting rinse and you can get away without ever putting a mitt to paint. ;) When it`s a bit more dirty.... nothing that black paint is gonna like better than Merino mitt, or say a Wookie`s Fist to keep the swirls at bay. (I don`t know how I ever got by without those little sheep giving their lives for us car nuts.) :p

Yup... you never remember just how much OCD`ness is involved in this hobby. :D
 
bltoe12345- There are a lot of topics here, from washing to correction...some general thoughts follow, I can probably be more specific if you get back with specifics.

Note that I got my late father into detailing when he was in his 70s and I`ll be basing my response in part upon how that went. IMO you`r absolutely correct in that it`s important to *NOT* make this so overwhelming/complicated/difficult that he doesn`t want to stick with it.

I can`t help much with WW as the closest I come to that is using Garry Dean`s Infinite Use Detail Juice, and I only use that after thoroughly cleaning the car via water-centric means first. IF he does the coin-op first that might be a viable approach *IF* you can get him to use lots of MFs and *NOT* try to speed up the process or try to make it more "efficient" (scare-quotes intentional ;) ) than it is when done properly. Hoping his Mil background helps here...You might research the Garry Dean Wash Method, which I think would be good, but Garry might come across such that your father won`t relate to him very well...so *you* learn it and then explain to dad.

On the polisher/products and LSP (and this is just IMO/IME)..I`d absolutely:

-Get the Boss15 instead of the GG6 (which I have/use/like for what it is). Using the GG6 wil frustrate him IMO
-Get NON-dimishing abrasive products (e.g., the Meg`s Ultimate Compound) to take abrasive breakdown/proper work-time out of the equation. Thus no Menzerna. I`m pretty sure Menzerna`s stuff would be frustrating for your dad
-Expect to need something like the UC and not just the HD Polish
-Forget about Autopian appearance standards, which leads me to...
-Use something like FK1000P that`s easy enough to use, lasts for ages, protects incredibly well against birds/etc., sheds dirt *great* during the wash (or even in rain), and "looks shiny" to normal people

And explain to him how you need to keep the clear thick, so "polishing out the scratches all the time" should not be in the cards.

Eh, there`e probably more I oughta be posting but I have stuff going on here and am distracted :o
 
Lots of info on this thread, and I couldnt browse through all of them. Just check if your car uses ceramiclear clear coat. If it does, I wouldnt do much pass a light polish on it to maintain the harder shell.

Personally I usually advise against trying more than a light polish if you are inexperience in paint correction (which I am not sure of), and like some recommended, just pay a pro to set up the canvas and get a coating!), then just maintain it with great technique/products.

maybe get a water filtration system
a bucket or 2 (Gritguard optional since there is lots of debate about this)
Good soap quality soap of your choice, or ONR...
good quality cloth/wash media (microfiber, wash mits, glass, all purpose, a few soft brushes...etc)
a GREAT wheel cleaner like the Sonax Full effect or Plus to be used once or twice a year the dust is real on these cars
All purpose/degreaser (meguiars stuff is fine here)
Some type of sealant.. I prefer wolfgang on non coated cars. you can also grab a wax if you like...
A blow dryer if you can...
a shop vac
and that should cover most of the maintence stuff and give you some options for spills or splatters...

You can check what clear coat you have by looking at the paint code, if it starts with a C then it has it, if it doesn`t its same as any other car (for the most part).

Ceramiclear is approx 0.2 mils thick on the top surface of the clear coat, the actual clear coat underneath is softer... you may have this odd moment when you are polishing out the ceramiclear, and you break through it and suddenly you get lesser results because it may act differently. you can compound out 0.2 mil in no time chasing some swirls with improper technique.
 
Raymoche said:
Lots of info on this thread, and I couldnt browse through all of them. Just check if your car uses ceramiclear clear coat. If it does, I wouldnt do much pass a light polish on it to maintain the harder shell.

Personally I usually advise against trying more than a light polish if you are inexperience in paint correction (which I am not sure of), and like some recommended, just pay a pro to set up the canvas and get a coating!), then just maintain it with great technique/products.

maybe get a water filtration system a bucket or 2 (Gritguard optional since there is lots of debate about this)
Good soap quality soap of your choice, or ONR... good quality cloth/wash media (microfiber, wash mits, glass, all purpose, a few soft brushes...etc)
a GREAT wheel cleaner like the Sonax Full effect or Plus to be used once or twice a year the dust is real on these cars
All purpose/degreaser (meguiars stuff is fine here)
Some type of sealant.. I prefer wolfgang on non coated cars. you can also grab a wax if you like...
A blow dryer if you can... a shop vac and that should cover most of the maintence stuff and give you some options for spills or splatters...

You can check what clear coat you have by looking at the paint code, if it starts with a C then it has it, if it doesn`t its same as any other car (for the most part).

Ceramiclear is approx 0.2 mils thick on the top surface of the clear coat, the actual clear coat underneath is softer... you may have this odd moment when you are polishing out the ceramiclear, and you break through it and suddenly you get lesser results because it may act differently. you can compound out 0.2 mil in no time chasing some swirls with improper technique.
Click to expand...

While I totally agree with the jist of your message, thought I might touch on a couple of points. (Highlighted in red above)

Not sure if you have a multi-layer, multi-thousand dollar film thickness gauge, but I`m betting not. What I`m thinking is.... you`re referring to a thread on Autogeek from 2013, as well as a conversation that Mike Philips had with Dr. Ghodoussi at Optimum. Right?

Actually..... ceramiclear isn`t a 2-layer clear, not at all. It just happens to be formulated to where something happens as it`s curing. This is what Dr. G was referring to in the below quote.

From Dr. Ghodoussi...
After the "cerami"clear top coat is sprayed, the nano particles of Fumed Silica (SiO2), which are synthetically engineered, migrate to the top 0.2 mils of the clear coat as it is curing.

If you remove this potion of the clear layer of paint, the paint under it will be much softer and will not polish out or react the same way the nano particle portion did or would.

So while the clear is shot as a single layer, the way the silica dries it migrates to the top, thus forming that `hard` crust over the softer clear below.

Not that it *can`t* be polished, just that it`s CERTAINLY NOT something someone that hasn`t had a lot of experience with it would want to do. That is not unless they are prepared to end up with a $8,000~$10,000 invoice for a paint job handed to them. :blink:


But that`s not what confused me about your post.

Perhaps I`ve fallen asleep, was aboard a Time Ship, and it`s the 80`s again. :unsure:

Where exactly is "debate" on Grit Guards and them not being necessary? I can assure you, washing without them (most tend to use TWO in a single bucket to amplify the overall design) isn`t something one would want to do.

Do they tend to float?
YUP.
Can you fix that?
YUP.
Are 2 better than one?
YOU BETCHA! :D

Fixing the `floating` problem is simple. Drill a small hole in each of the lower fins about 3/16" and insert a pointed fishing weight and hot glue it in place. Then to put 2 in a bucket, drill a couple more smaller holes in the fins and just zip tie the upper one to the bottom one, with the fins turned at 45° to the one below/above it. You can try as best you can to get the trash in the bottom to swirl up into your wash media with this setup and it`ll not happen.

Well.... sure.... if you are TRYING to get mud in your wash media you can, but you shouldn`t be trying to, AND you shouldn`t be laying your mitt(s) in the bottom of the bucket(s) anyhow. Simply slosh, rinse, slosh rinse, hang on the side of the bucket(s).

And as one thread I remember from years ago, one guy tried to say the Grit Guards were not necessary, but he was still rinsing the mitt in the rinse bucket (getting it wet) then rinsing and squeezing it out OUTSIDE of the bucket.

I actually do pretty much the same thing, just that I use 2 grit guards in both my soap as well as my rinse bucket(s). I`ll hit the rinse bucket with my mitt(s), slosh them around just a bit, then wring it out, outside the bucket.

I can ASSURE YOU, that if you do this method.... your soap is so clean you can put a lid on it and use it for your next wash. Then for the third wash you don`t need `wheel soap`, as you just dump your `clean` soap into your wheel bucket. ;)

Not that we`ve not all seen this video..... but it does go to show just how well Grit Guards work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4RGoQ6c50w
 
IME, taking off too much clear will often (?usually?) result in what`s left being softer. The overthinned (by others) clear on my `93 Audi is virtually BMW Jet Black-soft in many areas while other areas that still have plenty of clear remain typically Audi-hard.

Something to ponder for this thread- what are the *REAL* chances that this Benz is gonna stay marring-free? We`re not talking about an Autopian here. The thought "maybe add some Black Hole to the regimen" came to mind after I thought about it for a while. My father was the kind of guy who *really* worked at doing things right, but even with me helping/advising him, his vehicles always ended up with marring that would`ve driven me nuts.

What does bltoe12345`s father *enjoy*, or at least not mind, doing with regard to this stuff? What`re the realistic expectations when it comes to what he`ll do and how he`ll do it? Lots of (IMO utterly critical) subjective stuff to consider and this particular subject might be very different from most of us here.
 
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