Necessary to clay bar if I`m going to use megs 105?

bennylava

bennylava

New member
Correct me if I`m wrong here, but Megs 105 is one of the most aggressive compounds out there. So I was wondering if its even necessary to clay bar if you`re going to be using such an aggressive compound. The car I`m going to be using it on has deep scratches, there`s no question that it needs 105. But wouldn`t 105 just eat away all those things that a clay bar removes? I don`t know if 105 can do it, but there does have to come a point where a clay bar would be pointless because everything the clay bar would remove, is just going to be swept away regardless. So I`m curious to know if 105 will do that.
 
bennylava said:
Correct me if I`m wrong here, but Megs 105 is one of the most aggressive compounds out there. So I was wondering if its even necessary to clay bar if you`re going to be using such an aggressive compound. The car I`m going to be using it on has deep scratches, there`s no question that it needs 105. But wouldn`t 105 just eat away all those things that a clay bar removes? I don`t know if 105 can do it, but there does have to come a point where a clay bar would be pointless because everything the clay bar would remove, is just going to be swept away regardless. So I`m curious to know if 105 will do that.
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The contamination on the paint will accumulate in the pad and ruin your compounding process/results. Best to make sure that that paint is surgically clean before introducing any type of machine work, if not you run the risk of having more uneven results across the panel.
 
^+1 That and do yo know exactly what else is on your paint? Those substances may also gum up the pad and cause more damage in the process.
 
BennyLava -
How have you been?
Have not seen you in a few years, hope your business is going good..

Having come from auto painting and compounding - Before - the Claybar was sold on the West Coast, I can totally agree with the good men who have posted above..

On new paint, of course it was not a problem, but compounding a vehicle that had "dirt embedded paintwork" so that it would match the smoothness, clarity, and gloss of the new spotted in paintwork would sometimes make more steps to clean out the pads, etc.,. than after the claybar was here and I immediately tried it out and loved it for what it helped remove, way back then in the 1980`s, around 37 years ago..

Yes, you should always use a media to remove as much embedded gunk out of paintwork, so the next step/s will yield quicker, even more improved results in less time..
I have used Meguiars 105, 101, 205, and always had great results with them and always claybar`d everything first...

Of course, you can always do what you want and not claybar/claytowel, etc., the paintwork and it will work out fine, but think how much faster and/or better it could be if you could have helped the end result by just doing an easy go around and be amazed at how much gunk you got out of the paint ahead of the correction phase...

Good Luck, Benny !
Dan F
 
If you believe the 105 is going to sweep away the contaminants, you should realize those will end up in the pad being swept around the paint. Not something you want to happen. With the new clay towels/sponges you can clay as you wash and it only adds about 15-30 minutes.
 
bennylava- The potential problem is that the contaminants will indeed get "swept away"...swept all across the panels marring them up even worse than they are now. Today`s products like M105 don`t seem to have the same (quite potent) chemical cleaners that compounds did back in the day.

I do stuff without claying/decontaminating all the time, *when I believe I can get away with it*. So I`m sure not dogmatic about the process; I aim to do what needs done, while *not* doing what doesn`t need done. Sure, this is Autopia so the best advice to give is "If in doubt, decontaminate." But it`s easy to spend somebody else`s time/effort that way.. I just run a cost:benefit analysis to determine whether I need to do stuff rather than always assuming "better safe than sorry".
 
Thanks for all the replies! I will go ahead and claybar it first. I was kind of hoping that I didn`t have to because its winter time. Maybe I can find some detail place that will do the clay bar lol. Then I`ll do all the follow up stuff. Although I always have a hard time trusting that they`ll do it right. How many times do you guys go over the car with the clay bar? Until you stop seeing nasty stuff in the clay? Is there a video that yall would recommend, that shows the proper way to clay bar, and perhaps recommends a quality clay bar?
 
BennyLava,

I am sure there are videos on how to claybar on YouTube..

Think of it this way - Paintwork is like your skin, it has lots of pores, and stuff gets stuck in those pores and has to be sheared off to make the pores clean and smooth again..

What you can do is get the ClayMagic Blue color Claybar kit at most auto parts stores, Grand Auto, Shucks, etc., and it usually comes with a spray bottle of claybar lube..

You want to wash the car really good first, then leaving the body of it wet, and the claybar is warm (you can drop it in a bucket of hot water to help with this, spray the lube on a panel, rub the claybar over it, in back-and-forth motions; you will hear this sound as the claybar is shearing off the gunk embedded in the top of the paint, then it will quiet and the effort to move it will be really easy now. Keep the area you are cleaning very wet throughout this process, so the claybar will move smoothly and not "stick" to the paintwork..
You have to experiment with how much to claybar on a spot.. If its really dirty, it will take longer, not so dirty, it will be shorter..

Now, with a clean dry towel, wipe off that spot, and with a clean dry hand, run your fingertips over that spot and it will be really smooth to the touch.. If it is not really smooth and you can feel it rough, then you have to do it again until you get it smooth..

Look at the stuff on the claybar after you do a spot.. Is it really full of gunk that sometimes is colored? If it is, that is usually a sign of going to the carwash and ordering the super-deluxe-colored-wax-gunk sprayed on the car... Remove it..

Run your fingertips over an area next to that smooth spot and you will feel the difference.. Those places around the spot you just made smooth is where you go work next..

As you use that side of the claybar, you will see all this gunk embedded in it that came off that spot you just rubbed it on..
You will need to knead that dirty spot into the claybar, or wash it off with claybar cleaner, to expose a clean side of the claybar to continue the process..

Repeat until you are all done with all the paintwork..

You can also get a claybar and/some claybar lube at the Store here on Autopia, look at the top and click Store, type in clay bar lube in the search box..

Good Luck !
DanF
 
Thanks dan. I figured someone would say youtube, but I have to say that I trust this place a heck of a lot more than youtube. Never fails I watch a video then come here and be told not to do that, that method is a mistake! lol

Figured someone here may be able to point out that proper youtube vid of how to do it correctly. But with your explanation I doubt I`ll need it.
 
Here you have a in depth video on claying. I will point out that there is many that`s claying as a routine with every wash. That`s why he goes hard on the claying. When used right a 2 times on a year and before a polish you are fine with the right technique.

DanF has a good description also.

https://youtu.be/A3-iTYjCkl8
 
SWETM said:
Here you have a in depth video on claying. I will point out that there is many that`s claying as a routine with every wash. That`s why he goes hard on the claying. When used right a 2 times on a year and before a polish you are fine with the right technique.

DanF has a good description also.

https://youtu.be/A3-iTYjCkl8
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SWETM ----
Thanks for your post ! Your advice is spot on..

I loved the video.. that guy is something else.. :)

Yes, many have talked about "micro-marring" for decades, it is always harder to see with the naked eye.

But, if one is going to correct the paint to absolute clarity that one can read the small print of a newspaper in the reflection, then I believe that there will be no micromarring (if there was ever any), left after the correction process..

AND - he uses DoDoJuice Born Slippy -- the absolute best claybar lube I have ever used !!!

Once I finally tried it out, I have never gone back to any other.. It is really that good for claybars or the SM Arnold rubberized towel I use..
Dan F
 
Heh heh, I`d be pretty amazed if the kind of clay-induced marring I worry about were visible in a YouTube, unless the poster bent over backwards to show it, which I suspect won`t happen as it might be interpreted as "look at how I messed up". Eh, ...[INSERT Accumulator`s usual disdain for what`s on the internet]

Hey, just thinking out loud/rambling again..maybe my learning style is, uhm...different...but-

Q: Gee, how did you learn to do that?!?

A: I sat and thought about it for a few hours, filling several pages with notes from my ruminations. Then I practiced until I attained mastery.

I might be in the minority here, but I can figure out processes like claying better by *thinking* than by watching somebody else do it (though I can imagine somebody with a different learning style learning from watching somebody else run a polisher, especially a rotary).

Analogy- learning trigger control by watching somebody else shoot...I had to *feel*, first-hand, the diff between "trigger PRESS" (good) vs. "trigger PULL" (bad). Watching someone else`s finger move back and forth doesn`t teach me much of anything (well, other than where/how to position that finger on the trigger, but I don`t need to see that either).

EDIT: Heh heh, figures...I no sooner posted the above than I ran across an article discussing "Mirror Neurons". Apparently, MRIs show that watching somebody doing something causes the same neural behavior as (physically) doing it yourself. Another of those "note to self" moments... :o
 
Did you watched at the video I posted accumulator?

Yeah you can watch and read how much you want but first hand experience is the best. Though when you have looked things out and start doing it your self. You can faster learn the way to do it since you can understand when things go wrong easier. Sure you wont trust everyone on the Web. But you take in that things you believe in and put it to use. Then you can learn your own little trix along the time you doing it. But be prepared and better have a experienced coach at your side I think is faster to learn new things you have never done before or know about when starting out.
 
I will watch the video when I get time, it is almost an hour long lol. But it seems well worth a watch. Stuff like that, is why I always ask around on forums. I knew there was something to watch out for. Most people will talk like a given thing is great, but you really don`t get down to brass tacks until you really dig deep. I want to know all the things that can go wrong, and how to do it right. As for personal experience, I like to combine study and doing it myself.

But clay barring with every wash? That goes against what I`ve learned here. The gist of my education from these parts, is that you really should only need to do 1 full correction. If you keep up the wax maintenance schedule, then you won`t need to do much else later on down the road. Since it will always just be the wax that is taking the beating, and not your clear coat. Thus claybarring every couple of washes would kind of defeat all that. I don`t imagine that a clay bar is real healthy for wax.

Reading the small print of a newspaper in the reflection... I like that. I want to be able to give a detail job that allows for that. If its not just an exaggeration that is. If its actually something that is possible.
 
SWETM said:
Did you watched at the video I posted accumulator?
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Nah, not gonna spend any time watching somebody else detail. That probably sounds [crappy] but I guess that`s just me. Honestly, and I bet this`ll sound awful too, I just never found anything detailing-related to be that challenging other than washing marring-free (which I figured out by thinking on it) and finishing out hologram-free with a rotary (which I don`t care about). Different strokes and all that...

bennylava said:
But clay barring with every wash? That goes against what I`ve learned here. The gist of my education from these parts, is that you really should only need to do 1 full correction. If you keep up the wax maintenance schedule, then you won`t need to do much else later on down the road. Since it will always just be the wax that is taking the beating, and not your clear coat. Thus claybarring every couple of washes would kind of defeat all that. I don`t imagine that a clay bar is real healthy for wax.
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While I hardly ever need to do any real decontamination, I do spot-clay as needed at ever wash. I do it very gently with the aim of "claying my LSP clean" and am able to do that without significantly impacting my LSPs let alone marring the paint. But again, that`s just me.

Reading the small print of a newspaper in the reflection... I like that. I want to be able to give a detail job that allows for that. If its not just an exaggeration that is. If its actually something that is possible.
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I`ve never tried doing that, and metallics like silver might factor in along with the texture (i.e., orangepeel) of the paint (along with individual diffs in vision), but I wouldn`t think that an unrealistic exaggeration. We`ve had people ask about "should you be able to [whatever] if it`s prepped right?" and the answer is basically always "yes".

Get your inspection lighting and technique (viewing distance and angle) right and see if there`s anything that needs improvement *to satisfy YOU*. Heh heh, it`s another case where I recommend not looking for problems that you don`t know you have ;)
 
Accumulator said:
I might be in the minority here, but I can figure out processes like claying better by *thinking* than by watching somebody else do it (though I can imagine somebody with a different learning style learning from watching somebody else run a polisher, especially a rotary).

Analogy- learning trigger control by watching somebody else shoot...I had to *feel*, first-hand, the diff between "trigger PRESS" (good) vs. "trigger PULL" (bad). Watching someone else`s finger move back and forth doesn`t teach me much of anything (well, other than where/how to position that finger on the trigger, but I don`t need to see that either).
Click to expand...

hehe...yeah, I learn by various means. Detailing, using a polisher specifically, I learned by watching YouTube videos! Junkman`s videos were about the best (for me, and at that time) with regards to arm speed and pressure on the machine. Putting machine to paint with trial and error gave me the experience necessary to start. And with more practice, I got better.

Using your analogy with the trigger pull, I must agree with you! Something like that, there was no way I would "know" the difference between "trigger PRESS and trigger PULL" - that one I had to experience for myself at the range. After numerous attempts.

Using a clay bar, that too was better learned by doing it myself. Changing my technique as I got more hands-on experience.


Accumulator said:
EDIT: Heh heh, figures...I no sooner posted the above than I ran across an article discussing "Mirror Neurons". Apparently, MRIs show that watching somebody doing something causes the same neural behavior as (physically) doing it yourself. Another of those "note to self" moments... :o
Click to expand...

:) I wouldn`t have guessed!
 
So I`m still learning to detail properly, and now I`d like to ask what comes after the Megs 105. Had to put that car on the back burner for awhile while I worked on 2 other vehicles that will make a lot more money than that one lol. But now that they are out of the way, its time to get in there and use the 105. But after the 105, what polish should I use? Trying to put the whole picture together in my mind. So far it goes something like this:

1. A good wash. But which soap is good for a dirty car? Already got the good wash towels from here.

2. Chemical decontamination.

3. Clay bar.

4. Megs 105.

5. Polish. But which one? Its just a pontiac, so standard GM clearcoat I guess.

6. Wax. I know there is a million waxes, but I`d like to get a good one that lasts (i dunno) 6 months? And is fairly easy to get off. Always nice when you don`t have to work too hard.

7. Done. Sell car.
 
bennylava said:
So I`m still learning to detail properly, and now I`d like to ask what comes after the Megs 105. Had to put that car on the back burner for awhile while I worked on 2 other vehicles that will make a lot more money than that one lol. But now that they are out of the way, its time to get in there and use the 105. But after the 105, what polish should I use? Trying to put the whole picture together in my mind. So far it goes something like this:

1. A good wash. But which soap is good for a dirty car? Already got the good wash towels from here.

2. Chemical decontamination.

3. Clay bar.

4. Megs 105.

5. Polish. But which one? Its just a pontiac, so standard GM clearcoat I guess.

6. Wax. I know there is a million waxes, but I`d like to get a good one that lasts (i dunno) 6 months? And is fairly easy to get off. Always nice when you don`t have to work too hard.

7. Done. Sell car.
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Don`t want to work too hard and plan to sell??

Then use a spray on wax. Spray on wipe off. Easy, fast (20 min or less) and it works really well too.

Tom
 
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