Hey everyone, so far I'm purchasing a cordless drill for my mobile headlight restoration, setting aside my pc for full details as power is an issue when it comes to mobile headlight cleaning. So far I been wet sanding by hand, from 800g, 1500g to 2000g. After that I use my megs ultimate compound as the last polishing step. The polish worked really well for a few headlights, but on others, it did just ok. My question is, is wet sanding by hand better or sanding with a drill? Also, what polish is better then uc to use for headlights
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More Mobile Headlight restorartion ?'s
- Thread starter jyu1210
- Start date
Richard Grasa
New member
I always sand by hand unless they are really bad, then I use a 3M kit with the little round sanding discs on my drill. The 3M kit is nice because it comes with everything you need to do it with a drill, but is a little pricey. I don't think there is really any advantage or disadvantage doing it by hand or machine, besides the machine being faster. I prefer to do it by hand because it helps prevent any accidental damage, say if you hit a corner with the drill the wrong way and the drill jumped and the sandpaper hit the paint or something. I've never used UC on headlights, I've only used M105 which works awesome.
Darkstar752
New member
Have you tried just sanding with 1500->2000 and then the PC? It should work out fine, I usually use my Griot's Garage DA on headlights as I worry about my rotary producing too much heat.
I wetsanded then used my pc with uc to polish the headlights off. It worked really well for a few headlights I've done, but on a honda civic headlight it just did fairly well. Do you guys just wet sand and use uc and thats it? I already ordered my m105 for some correction detail and I'll be using that as my headlight polish. I'm also planning on using mothers plastic polish after the m105 to give it a more clearer look, good idea?
hacadacalopolis
New member
Headlight restoration also has its alternatives to repair then just polishing.
There are coatings, and paint protection films that give it the protection and can utilize a brand new look- which customers will be amazed by
If you cannot fix what polishing can do there are other options:
If a manufacturers coating has break throu i will offer a clear coating to restore a gloss and protection.
I use Glasweld Gclear hardcoat- polycarbonate can be sanded up to 1500grit for clear coat applicaiton.
Check this vid out, a guy using epoxy clear to get rid of some light pitting etc...
The Best in Headlight Restoration in Action - YouTube
There are coatings, and paint protection films that give it the protection and can utilize a brand new look- which customers will be amazed by
If you cannot fix what polishing can do there are other options:
If a manufacturers coating has break throu i will offer a clear coating to restore a gloss and protection.
I use Glasweld Gclear hardcoat- polycarbonate can be sanded up to 1500grit for clear coat applicaiton.
Check this vid out, a guy using epoxy clear to get rid of some light pitting etc...
The Best in Headlight Restoration in Action - YouTube
imported_Automania1
New member
hacadacalopolis said:Headlight restoration also has its alternatives to repair then just polishing.
There are coatings, and paint protection films that give it the protection and can utilize a brand new look- which customers will be amazed by
If you cannot fix what polishing can do there are other options:
If a manufacturers coating has break throu i will offer a clear coating to restore a gloss and protection.
I use Glasweld Gclear hardcoat- polycarbonate can be sanded up to 1500grit for clear coat applicaiton.
Check this vid out, a guy using epoxy clear to get rid of some light pitting etc...
The Best in Headlight Restoration in Action - YouTube
The you tube video is an incredible system, that provides a flawless coating..it can also be sanded and polished
hacadacalopolis
New member
Yes, he is basically using an extremely high solids epoxy clear coat.
the film build is quite thick around 10- 15 mils.
I have done several garage finishes like this.
Check this out I didnt even know that TOGWT had a blog basically about what i am talkin about>
TOGWT: Paint Densities (Hard and soft paint)
The paints used on concrete are essentially linear polyester urethanes(2k)
Hardness is very similar to IMRON Polyurethane enamel.
the film build is quite thick around 10- 15 mils.
I have done several garage finishes like this.
Check this out I didnt even know that TOGWT had a blog basically about what i am talkin about>
TOGWT: Paint Densities (Hard and soft paint)
The paints used on concrete are essentially linear polyester urethanes(2k)
Hardness is very similar to IMRON Polyurethane enamel.
Matt Cardoni
New member
Great info ray6. Are you referring to the Infinity 4.1 from Deltakits? I was considering giving it a try but haven't seen much in the way of reviews outside their forum.
Yes. We've been using it for a few months and are very happy with it, but it does take getting used to. It is thinner than polys but will still fill in 3000 grit scratches. Since it cures in about 5 minutes, we apply a second coat. We are currently warranting the coating for 2 years. We're only using about 3 ml. of coating on our standard test lights (2 coats/96 Ford oval) so the actual cost per headlight is less than 50 cents, but we don't use paper towels and other dealers using paper towel technique are reporting consumption at double this amount.
We are currently running UV exposure tests on it but won't have solid results for another 2 months, but so far it has exceeded 4 different polyurethane coatings and 1 factory coating. This is good stuff.
ray6
We are currently running UV exposure tests on it but won't have solid results for another 2 months, but so far it has exceeded 4 different polyurethane coatings and 1 factory coating. This is good stuff.
ray6
If you're going to do this professionally, I wouldn't go the drill way. I did when I started, buying an expensive DeWalt right angle cordless drill.
Expensive when you add extra batteries and remote charger so you can recharge in your car
Gets very hot, cannot use continuously
Not fast enough for polishing
Noisy
Heavy with battery
Not designed for continuous work
A regular drill would be worse if it is not right angle. They are difficult to control and accidents will happen.
The best I've found and use now are a D/A from Metabo and one from Groit's garage. We use them both. We also use a portable battery pack and inverter for powering them when no AC is available (rare). Either of these devices draw under 200 watts at medium speed.
If you're going to be doing this all day long, you'll hate the cordless drill approach.
ray6
Expensive when you add extra batteries and remote charger so you can recharge in your car
Gets very hot, cannot use continuously
Not fast enough for polishing
Noisy
Heavy with battery
Not designed for continuous work
A regular drill would be worse if it is not right angle. They are difficult to control and accidents will happen.
The best I've found and use now are a D/A from Metabo and one from Groit's garage. We use them both. We also use a portable battery pack and inverter for powering them when no AC is available (rare). Either of these devices draw under 200 watts at medium speed.
If you're going to be doing this all day long, you'll hate the cordless drill approach.
ray6
Here's an article I wrote about headlight restoration for another forum you might find interesting:
Headlight Restoration 2.0
I'd like to share some information about headlight restoration. Although I work for a headlight restoration supplies manufacturer, the products my company distributes are not available to the retail public, so you really can't buy these products unless you are in the restoration business, and in any case I'll keep it generic.
History
Starting in 1989, auto manufacturers started switching from glass sealed beam headlights to plastic headlight modules. Part of the change was pressure from the U.S. government on getting rid of the glass. Slow speed collisions with pedestrians were producing extensive injuries not due to the physycal impact per se, but more with cuts from broken glass. Another push was that manufacturers were being pushed to produce greater mileage, which requires streamlining, including headlights.
The plastic used for the outside covers of headlight assemblies is polycarbonate, trade name Lexan (also called bullet proof glass). Polycarbonate is tough and flexible and difficult to break.
Tali lights, turn signals, etc. are made from acrylic. Totally different material. Acrylic is a petroleum based product; polycarbonate is derived from natural gas.
If someone talks about acrylic headlights, be suspicious.
If you hit a piece of acrylic with a hammer it will shatter. If you hit polycarbonate, it will bend, and maybe crack. This is why it is used.
Although polycarbonate is a great material for forming complex shapes like headlights, it has two major faults. First, it will break down with UV exposure. Secondly, it is very porous so any water that gets into the polycarbonate can freeze causing micro cracks.
In order to protect the polycarbonate from moisture and UV exposure, the headlight is coated at the factory with a protective finish. This finish is a sealer, but mostly a UV adsorber. It is applied using closely controlled procedures such as electrostatic, dip, spray, etc. It consists of first a primer then the protective coating.
It is the breakdown of this coating you see as milky or yellow. The coating is doing it's job.
The UV adsorption works by convertying UV light to heat. As the molecules heat up, they eventually break their bonds with other molecules and are no longer connected. This connection is called cross-linking.
A general rule of thumb is that because the UV coating has a finite capacity to adsorb UV, the more coating (thicker) the longer the life. So this brings up an important point. If the new coating you're applying is very thin, how long can it last?
If it's just for your own headlights, there are many kits available from dozens of manufacturers, but almost all suffer from the same issue; they don't offer a real replacement coating to replace the one you removed.
Actual headlight restoration is a two step process; remove the old protective coating and replace it with a new one. The replacement coating is where nearly all D.I.Y kits and over the counter products fail. Without a new permanent coating, all your hard efforts in cleaning off the old coating are wasted time. You'll have to do it again, only this time you're down to the raw polycarbonate and the clean up is harder to do.
Headlights are very thick, about .1 to .25 inches thick depending on size and use, but nearly impossible to actually sand through.
Off road vehicles will have a thicker protective coating.
Some headlights have 3 tips on them that are used for headlight alignment.
When people say they want to do headlight restoration, I first ask, is it for your own use on your own car or do you want to do it as a service for a fee? There is a big difference. If you want to restore your own headlights, you can buy a kit, use toothpaste, rubbing compound, sanding, etc. It's all the same results, get the old coating off. What differs between processes is how long will it take you and how fine a finish will you get?
Will this procedure make your headlights look like new? Probably, if you get all the old coating off and don't leave any sanding scratches (and the headlight was restorable in the first place, no cracks or internal moisture). But here's the problem. You got the old coating off. You either hand sanded, machine sanded, chemically stripped, used compound, toothpaste,grandma's secret salsa recipe, etc. Now what? If you're willing to keep a layer of good quality wax on your headlights and wax after every carwash, your headlights will probably look like new forever. If not, you need something more permanent.
On the otherhand, if you are offering headlight restoration as a service for a fee, the D.I.Y. kits and procedures are a waste of time. Sure, many of the kits will get the coating off, but are nothing more than a box of abrasives and compounds and maybe a drill attachment.
Many include some sort of secret sauce (called a shine restorer, sealer, protectant, UV coating, final coat, etc.) are nothing more than some sort of synthetic wax/polish with a limited lifetime.
Headlight restoration is becoming a huge market. All plastic headlights will deteriorate with time so virtually nearly any car manufactured after 1989 is a potenial customer, even some trucks that use plastic headlights. They will all break down, sooner or later. Since there are over 120 million vehicles in the U.S., you can imagine how big the market is and it is growing each year.
A key point in deteriorating headlights is the unspoken safety issue. Cloudy headlights are a major safety hazard as countless studies have shown.
There is a growing network of "pro" headlight restorers out there. By pro I mean they restore headlights correctly by removing the old coating and replacing it with a new, long lasting one. Products and procedures may differ, but the end results are similar; a like new looking headlight with a real, long lasting protective coating, usually with a warranty of 1 to 3 years. We know this because we sell products to them every day. There aren't many, but the numbers are growing.
The field applied new coating can never match the original, because you can't duplicate the factory coating in the field, and even if you could (primer, cure, coat, cure with UV, IR) it would be cost prohibitive.
The reason you're not familiar with these products is they are not produced for the retail market and aren't available over the counter. If you are interested in restoring headlights as a business, you should consider the following:
Separate headlight restoration into 2 parts; remove the old coating, replace it with a new one.
Removing the old coating-
Can be done with a chemical strip, abrasive, razor blade, or a combination.
Goal: Remove the old coating in the shortst time and at the lowest cost.
Most pros don't use rotary devices like electric drills. They are hard to control and can cause damage. Battery operated drills are the worst because they were never designed for this task. You'll need extra batteries, probably a car charger, etc. so it can get expensive. Instead, pros will hand sand (usually in combination with a chemical stripper) or use a small R/A sander/polisher (3" is best) available from Metabo, Groits and others.
If sanding, abrasive quality does matter. More expensive abrasives are usually cheaper in the long run because they last longer. One of the best is 3M, but overpriced in my opinion. Others are Abralon, Norton, Mirka and Indasa. It may be difficult to buy these products locally, but redily available on the internet.
Applying a new coating-
There are probably 15 to 20 coatings available, all with advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on your application limits, customer expectations, cost and market. Different applications are wipe on or spray on.
All coatings need to be cured after application. This is done in different ways. Some are 2K, curing by chemical reaction, similar to fiberglass resin. Some cure by UV exposure, either from UV lamps or direct sunlight. Many cure by oxygen absorption, such as polyurethanes (MinWax/mineral spirits is an example).
A few manufacturers are Delts Kits, Dvelup, Speedokote, Momentive, Brite Lites, Semtec, Medallion, etc. They each have their pros and cons.
If you want to do headlight restoration as a business, do your research. What's the competition in your area? Do they offer a written guarantee? How much do they charge? A pro job will probably sell for $40-160 depending on the application. Doing multiple cars on a lot is much different than doing a Lexus for a high end detailer.
When someone advertises a restoration for $30-40 and they come to you, I wonder how they make money or are they the buff and run type (sand/polish/add wax/run)?
In choosing a system and product line, you don't have to buy someone's system, although this may help when starting out. But you do have to develop the skill set and get the proper tools.
In considering a process, ask yourself the following questions:
Am I going to be mobile? If so, I must carry a bodacious air compressor to use pneumatic tools such as furnished in 3M's pro kit (it also doesn't have a real protective coating). If I'll be sanding with an electric sander, I'll need to carry a generator or an inverter hooked to my vehicles battery. Inverters are problematic because car batteries are not designed for this kind of load. You really need a deep cycle battery like the type used on boats and golf carts.
Does the coating require spraying? If so, I'll have to tape and mask the headlight. If it's windy or dusty, you'll have problems. If it's indoors, like in a shop, I'll need a resperator. Spray coatings are available, but fairly expensive when you consider that that 6 oz. can for $48 really only contains about 2 oz. of usable material; 2 oz. is propellant and spraying is about 50% efficient at best.
Do I need UV lamps to cure? UV lamps are expensive with short lifetimes and will require power. Sunlight may be used, but what about cloudy days?
Will the coating cure fast enough for my customer? If you're doing jobs on a lot you usually aren't concerned with cure time. Some of thebest coatings air cure, but take 30 to 60 min. to cure. Some 2K coatings will cure in less than 5 minutes.
What kind of warranty (if any) will I offer? You beter have a pretty good idea how long your coating will last before issuing a warranty. Your warranty has to be worse case, such as a PT cruiser (horizontal surface) in Florida (strong UV) parked facing south and outside 24/7. In Florida you would probably warrant it for 1 year. In Oregon, with all other factors being equal, it would probably last 5 years.
Referrals-
What most restorers find over time is that a large percentage of new customers come to them by referrals from previous customers. A satisfied customer is your best (and free) salesman.
So, if you've read this far, you are to be congradulated in your interest level.
If you're looking into headlight restoration, your best bet is to start at the keyboard and research. Try different products and procedures. One way to learn your art is to do restorations for free to friends and family. Also consider doing restorations for non-profits such as Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc. You can learn on their cars and deduct your going rate on your taxes. There are additional markets such as government fleets, taxi companies, trucking fleets, etc.
We have a customer that does restorations for all state vehicles in his state including emergency vehicles (like light bars on police, fire and ambulences). These are made of acrylic, but are even easier to restore than polycarbonate.
ray6
Headlight Restoration 2.0
I'd like to share some information about headlight restoration. Although I work for a headlight restoration supplies manufacturer, the products my company distributes are not available to the retail public, so you really can't buy these products unless you are in the restoration business, and in any case I'll keep it generic.
History
Starting in 1989, auto manufacturers started switching from glass sealed beam headlights to plastic headlight modules. Part of the change was pressure from the U.S. government on getting rid of the glass. Slow speed collisions with pedestrians were producing extensive injuries not due to the physycal impact per se, but more with cuts from broken glass. Another push was that manufacturers were being pushed to produce greater mileage, which requires streamlining, including headlights.
The plastic used for the outside covers of headlight assemblies is polycarbonate, trade name Lexan (also called bullet proof glass). Polycarbonate is tough and flexible and difficult to break.
Tali lights, turn signals, etc. are made from acrylic. Totally different material. Acrylic is a petroleum based product; polycarbonate is derived from natural gas.
If someone talks about acrylic headlights, be suspicious.
If you hit a piece of acrylic with a hammer it will shatter. If you hit polycarbonate, it will bend, and maybe crack. This is why it is used.
Although polycarbonate is a great material for forming complex shapes like headlights, it has two major faults. First, it will break down with UV exposure. Secondly, it is very porous so any water that gets into the polycarbonate can freeze causing micro cracks.
In order to protect the polycarbonate from moisture and UV exposure, the headlight is coated at the factory with a protective finish. This finish is a sealer, but mostly a UV adsorber. It is applied using closely controlled procedures such as electrostatic, dip, spray, etc. It consists of first a primer then the protective coating.
It is the breakdown of this coating you see as milky or yellow. The coating is doing it's job.
The UV adsorption works by convertying UV light to heat. As the molecules heat up, they eventually break their bonds with other molecules and are no longer connected. This connection is called cross-linking.
A general rule of thumb is that because the UV coating has a finite capacity to adsorb UV, the more coating (thicker) the longer the life. So this brings up an important point. If the new coating you're applying is very thin, how long can it last?
If it's just for your own headlights, there are many kits available from dozens of manufacturers, but almost all suffer from the same issue; they don't offer a real replacement coating to replace the one you removed.
Actual headlight restoration is a two step process; remove the old protective coating and replace it with a new one. The replacement coating is where nearly all D.I.Y kits and over the counter products fail. Without a new permanent coating, all your hard efforts in cleaning off the old coating are wasted time. You'll have to do it again, only this time you're down to the raw polycarbonate and the clean up is harder to do.
Headlights are very thick, about .1 to .25 inches thick depending on size and use, but nearly impossible to actually sand through.
Off road vehicles will have a thicker protective coating.
Some headlights have 3 tips on them that are used for headlight alignment.
When people say they want to do headlight restoration, I first ask, is it for your own use on your own car or do you want to do it as a service for a fee? There is a big difference. If you want to restore your own headlights, you can buy a kit, use toothpaste, rubbing compound, sanding, etc. It's all the same results, get the old coating off. What differs between processes is how long will it take you and how fine a finish will you get?
Will this procedure make your headlights look like new? Probably, if you get all the old coating off and don't leave any sanding scratches (and the headlight was restorable in the first place, no cracks or internal moisture). But here's the problem. You got the old coating off. You either hand sanded, machine sanded, chemically stripped, used compound, toothpaste,grandma's secret salsa recipe, etc. Now what? If you're willing to keep a layer of good quality wax on your headlights and wax after every carwash, your headlights will probably look like new forever. If not, you need something more permanent.
On the otherhand, if you are offering headlight restoration as a service for a fee, the D.I.Y. kits and procedures are a waste of time. Sure, many of the kits will get the coating off, but are nothing more than a box of abrasives and compounds and maybe a drill attachment.
Many include some sort of secret sauce (called a shine restorer, sealer, protectant, UV coating, final coat, etc.) are nothing more than some sort of synthetic wax/polish with a limited lifetime.
Headlight restoration is becoming a huge market. All plastic headlights will deteriorate with time so virtually nearly any car manufactured after 1989 is a potenial customer, even some trucks that use plastic headlights. They will all break down, sooner or later. Since there are over 120 million vehicles in the U.S., you can imagine how big the market is and it is growing each year.
A key point in deteriorating headlights is the unspoken safety issue. Cloudy headlights are a major safety hazard as countless studies have shown.
There is a growing network of "pro" headlight restorers out there. By pro I mean they restore headlights correctly by removing the old coating and replacing it with a new, long lasting one. Products and procedures may differ, but the end results are similar; a like new looking headlight with a real, long lasting protective coating, usually with a warranty of 1 to 3 years. We know this because we sell products to them every day. There aren't many, but the numbers are growing.
The field applied new coating can never match the original, because you can't duplicate the factory coating in the field, and even if you could (primer, cure, coat, cure with UV, IR) it would be cost prohibitive.
The reason you're not familiar with these products is they are not produced for the retail market and aren't available over the counter. If you are interested in restoring headlights as a business, you should consider the following:
Separate headlight restoration into 2 parts; remove the old coating, replace it with a new one.
Removing the old coating-
Can be done with a chemical strip, abrasive, razor blade, or a combination.
Goal: Remove the old coating in the shortst time and at the lowest cost.
Most pros don't use rotary devices like electric drills. They are hard to control and can cause damage. Battery operated drills are the worst because they were never designed for this task. You'll need extra batteries, probably a car charger, etc. so it can get expensive. Instead, pros will hand sand (usually in combination with a chemical stripper) or use a small R/A sander/polisher (3" is best) available from Metabo, Groits and others.
If sanding, abrasive quality does matter. More expensive abrasives are usually cheaper in the long run because they last longer. One of the best is 3M, but overpriced in my opinion. Others are Abralon, Norton, Mirka and Indasa. It may be difficult to buy these products locally, but redily available on the internet.
Applying a new coating-
There are probably 15 to 20 coatings available, all with advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on your application limits, customer expectations, cost and market. Different applications are wipe on or spray on.
All coatings need to be cured after application. This is done in different ways. Some are 2K, curing by chemical reaction, similar to fiberglass resin. Some cure by UV exposure, either from UV lamps or direct sunlight. Many cure by oxygen absorption, such as polyurethanes (MinWax/mineral spirits is an example).
A few manufacturers are Delts Kits, Dvelup, Speedokote, Momentive, Brite Lites, Semtec, Medallion, etc. They each have their pros and cons.
If you want to do headlight restoration as a business, do your research. What's the competition in your area? Do they offer a written guarantee? How much do they charge? A pro job will probably sell for $40-160 depending on the application. Doing multiple cars on a lot is much different than doing a Lexus for a high end detailer.
When someone advertises a restoration for $30-40 and they come to you, I wonder how they make money or are they the buff and run type (sand/polish/add wax/run)?
In choosing a system and product line, you don't have to buy someone's system, although this may help when starting out. But you do have to develop the skill set and get the proper tools.
In considering a process, ask yourself the following questions:
Am I going to be mobile? If so, I must carry a bodacious air compressor to use pneumatic tools such as furnished in 3M's pro kit (it also doesn't have a real protective coating). If I'll be sanding with an electric sander, I'll need to carry a generator or an inverter hooked to my vehicles battery. Inverters are problematic because car batteries are not designed for this kind of load. You really need a deep cycle battery like the type used on boats and golf carts.
Does the coating require spraying? If so, I'll have to tape and mask the headlight. If it's windy or dusty, you'll have problems. If it's indoors, like in a shop, I'll need a resperator. Spray coatings are available, but fairly expensive when you consider that that 6 oz. can for $48 really only contains about 2 oz. of usable material; 2 oz. is propellant and spraying is about 50% efficient at best.
Do I need UV lamps to cure? UV lamps are expensive with short lifetimes and will require power. Sunlight may be used, but what about cloudy days?
Will the coating cure fast enough for my customer? If you're doing jobs on a lot you usually aren't concerned with cure time. Some of thebest coatings air cure, but take 30 to 60 min. to cure. Some 2K coatings will cure in less than 5 minutes.
What kind of warranty (if any) will I offer? You beter have a pretty good idea how long your coating will last before issuing a warranty. Your warranty has to be worse case, such as a PT cruiser (horizontal surface) in Florida (strong UV) parked facing south and outside 24/7. In Florida you would probably warrant it for 1 year. In Oregon, with all other factors being equal, it would probably last 5 years.
Referrals-
What most restorers find over time is that a large percentage of new customers come to them by referrals from previous customers. A satisfied customer is your best (and free) salesman.
So, if you've read this far, you are to be congradulated in your interest level.
If you're looking into headlight restoration, your best bet is to start at the keyboard and research. Try different products and procedures. One way to learn your art is to do restorations for free to friends and family. Also consider doing restorations for non-profits such as Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc. You can learn on their cars and deduct your going rate on your taxes. There are additional markets such as government fleets, taxi companies, trucking fleets, etc.
We have a customer that does restorations for all state vehicles in his state including emergency vehicles (like light bars on police, fire and ambulences). These are made of acrylic, but are even easier to restore than polycarbonate.
ray6
Here are 2 more videos on different techniques on headlight restoration.
Water based
SINTEC 4 STEP - YouTube
Solvent based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBtl68SlcBc&list=HL1340757828&feature=mh_lolz
ray6
Water based
SINTEC 4 STEP - YouTube
Solvent based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBtl68SlcBc&list=HL1340757828&feature=mh_lolz
ray6