Money talks

Jean-Claude

Jean-Claude

Keeper of the beautiful
MONEY



This is a subject that most will not openly and frankly discuss with their clients. There are different reasons. Some detailers feel that giving a price is enough and knowing the why's or how's to not getting an appointment set up is part of the biz.



An example...

A new potential client calls you up for the first time. You spend 20+ minutes on the phone discuss all the awesome stuff you do and how what you offer will make his car's life better. Everything is going awesome and then you get that dreaded question...how much will it cost? Your butt puckers a little because you know you offer something more than is available just anywhere but you hate giving that price because you know you cost more than practically everyone else around. You give your price, you hear that line we all hate to hear "I'll call ya back when I am ready."



..you never hear from him again.



A few things:

1. He called you today because he is wanting something "today". No one goes looking for engagement rings unless they want one.



2. He obviously liked what you offered. The results he has seen on your website or a forum, he knows the products are the best and thus he wants it. (or at least did)



3. The price seemed to run him off but he didn't say that so how can you still get his business?



The matter is that you kept money a taboo subject. 9 out of 10 people do not feel comfortable telling you that you are "too much". Sure, some guys do business on a premise that either they take it or leave it. If you're like me, you can fit a package together that will keep the customer happy with the cost and you will be happy because you got to keep busy another day.



If the example I gave you sounds all too familiar, you were not comfortable with your price yourself. You need to have pride in your work and know it's worth what you charge, or you need to get out of business.



This is really a 2-part fix for this issue.

1. Be proud of your work and know that the prices you offer are actually lower than they should be. When you give a price, be proud of that price.



2. Make the subject of money a matter of fact type situation. If they act put off, ask them. Don't wait for them to tell you, because in most of the cases they will not. "Hey John, please don't take this the wrong way, but you seemed a bit put off when I gave you the price. May I ask you how you feel about the services I offer and the price I gave you?" You ask and he will tell you. 10 out of 10 times, if you ask if the price is right, they will let you know. His response will give you the chance to let him know that you're the same buyer is he now. You shop around when you are looking for a TV or a car. You're a consumer too. "John, I'd really like to earn your business. If the high level of customer attention, service and end results I give are what you're looking for, what is it that you think they are worth?"



Some folks will give some stupid numbers. In some cases, there will be nothing you can do to gain their business short of giving away what you do. That's not what this is about, this is about getting a few more clients a month because you dug down and got the money subject out in the open. You can adjust the time you put into a job or back off certain steps(as you will tell him) and save a client a few bucks.



Most folks want a deal. Sometimes shaving $25 off a $350 detail is all it takes. If you can't get the client to admit that money is the only thing "not right", you can't save him from using someone else. I will tell you 10 out of 10 times I will shave a few bucks off a detail to get a new client. A few bucks isn't a big deal. If they are one of those clients that wants half off, then it's time to start backing off the time and level of attention his car gets(again, let him know he pays less he gets less).



Jean-Claude
 
I agree with Ivan. Very well written and many guys are likely about to experience this, are currently going through this, or have gone through this. I know I was much more hesitant about asking for what I see now is a fair amount of money for the work I would be doing. If you want to sell quality service, you must learn to talk money and evaluate your services and clients properly.
 
I had a situation with a co-worker, she wanted a detail on her mom's SUV, I gave her a list of services and why they were needed, an estimate of how long for each step and my hourly rate. que the crickets.....................Then, the next day she emailed back and said she had to leave early to take her son to the doctor and wanted to schedule the detail ASAP. I'm stoked! I thought she was turned off bout the price.
 
I'll give you a bit of the other side of the equation - the consumer side. I spend quite a bit of time detailing my own car, and I understand that it can take me quite some time to do a careful detail, even if you are not doing paint correction along with it. Many people don't.



You want how much to do what?!?!?!? Sticker shock abounds. The average person uses the local auto wash, which takes about 5 minutes per car along with a wipedown afterward is the standard you are being compared to. OK, give it 15-20 mins per car to wash being generous... how much longer could it take, and how much can that cost? They just don't get it.



I would suggest that when you discuss the job being contemplated, that you clearly describe what is going to be done but as importantly, how long it takes to accomplish it. Depending on the level of expertise involved in the work (wash, correction, what level of interior work, etc) I think it is a bit easier to come to a conclusion about whether the price is reasonable or not. Anybody can do a quick calc in their head to give them a sense of what the price is per hour of work. The effort expended is very high compared to what most people think is involved in performing these services - probably because the most they have ever done themselves is a quick wash and spray wax. If you quote three or four hundred, and I think it is two or three hours work... it probably does not compute.



Just my 2 cents - probably what it is worth, but hope it helps!
 
Black99miata said:
I would suggest that when you discuss the job being contemplated, that you clearly describe what is going to be done but as importantly, how long it takes to accomplish it. Depending on the level of expertise involved in the work (wash, correction, what level of interior work, etc) I think it is a bit easier to come to a conclusion about whether the price is reasonable or not. Anybody can do a quick calc in their head to give them a sense of what the price is per hour of work. The effort expended is very high compared to what most people think is involved in performing these services - probably because the most they have ever done themselves is a quick wash and spray wax. If you quote three or four hundred, and I think it is two or three hours work... it probably does not compute.



Just my 2 cents - probably what it is worth, but hope it helps!
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Absolutely. That would have to be part of that 20 minute conversation so many of us are familiar with.
 
As a consumer (perhaps a little more knowledgeable than your average client) I would of course appreciate an explanation of services. However, when you receive a cold call asking how much some service will cost it seems that it would be difficult for you to know the answer without inspecting the vehicle prior to giving a quote. It seems that a good answer might be to quote an hourly rate explaining that as a professional your work is not only first rate but you are also more efficient than an amateur and explaining an average range of time to perform a service based on the individual car's need and condition.



If presented with acutal labor charges it would make it easier for your clients to determine the level of correction that they are willing/able to afford on the front end. Product costs and/or overhead can easily be built into hourly rates for those jobs that entail more than just a basic wash of the exterior and/or interior cleaning.



Just my $0.02 although I probably have no business posting in this thread.
 
A lot just want to negotiate. It's everywhere right now. The consumers know we need the work. Knowing this, the shop us more or just say no.......until we counter offer.



Yeah, I'd like to make my initial price offered, but if I have to take a hit of 50.00 off, I will.



My old used car manager had a great line.....

"Half a tater is better than NO tater!"
 
I agree to a point. At 51, my back has had several "issues' and I know better than take on any job that comes along. I'll work on the price if it's not extremely labor intensive. But, a trashed truck or big SUV - no, it's not worth bustin balls for 10+ hours for a cheap price. Secondly, I educate my customers on what work is needed, time involved and price per hour. I'm looking for the customer that can tell the difference between me and the tunnel of swirls and will pay for quality. Lastly, never debate an idiot, any guy that claims his scratched up, swirl bucket is fine cause the dealer washes and "simonizes" ain't worth your breath.



It's just as important to size up the customer as it is to inspect the car.
 
I agree with you Junebug.... your client has to appreciate the quality of services you provide or your price will always be too high.
 
but if you constantly charge $350-500 for a paint correction detail and someone wants it done for $275 and you accept the job, you still have to put forth the same effort to get desired results otherwise your name goes to junk as poor quality....THEN, where is your value of service at if you are always working for less????



sure there is the stigma of work more so more people will tell more people, but what about working less and making more? 10 jobs at 200 each over a week doesnt equal 1 job at 2000 done in 3 days! There are more days off with less jobs which equals more free time to market and advertise and LIVE LIFE



I for one would rather work on a single car for the 1500-2000 over 3 days and enjoy the 4 days off to recoupe and relax a bit (ok, who am I kidding, I dont ever relax if I can help it). It serves two purposes for me: 1 - higher quality outcome, higher quality clients. 2- more time off to attract more of those types of clients.



It really depends on your business structure though I guess...volume or one off!!!
 
I spoke of 2 different scenarios.

One where you adjust your "full $350 detail" by $25'ish. The other where you adjust it a notable amount and adjust some of the services to reflect it. If your client wants that full detail but wants to save $75, tell him you can still give him what he really wants at the right price but he will have to live without leather(or whatever) getting detailed for now so you can get the price right for him.



The main idea is that you openly discuss the money issue so you can both get what you want. It's not about giving away your knowledge and time beyond a reasonable amount(even though chances are everyone here gives away something to a client without charging). It's about adjusting your client's attitude about discussing money so that you can get to the root of why they are not using you. What you decide to do with that info is up to you. You can let them walk over $10 or $150. Or you can hook 'em by getting that price right and the services to match.



toyotaguy said:
but if you constantly charge $350-500 for a paint correction detail and someone wants it done for $275 and you accept the job, you still have to put forth the same effort to get desired results otherwise your name goes to junk as poor quality....THEN, where is your value of service at if you are always working for less????



sure there is the stigma of work more so more people will tell more people, but what about working less and making more? 10 jobs at 200 each over a week doesnt equal 1 job at 2000 done in 3 days! There are more days off with less jobs which equals more free time to market and advertise and LIVE LIFE



I for one would rather work on a single car for the 1500-2000 over 3 days and enjoy the 4 days off to recoupe and relax a bit (ok, who am I kidding, I dont ever relax if I can help it). It serves two purposes for me: 1 - higher quality outcome, higher quality clients. 2- more time off to attract more of those types of clients.



It really depends on your business structure though I guess...volume or one off!!!
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Choosing the correct price for YOUR individual market and business model is dependent on so many factors. Some things are out of your control, such as where you live and how much the median household income is. Other things you can control, such as who your target market is, how you position your product, and how well you market it. If your detailing service has a unique selling position; such as high quality, convenient, and professional service, you can charge a premium.
 
toyotaguy said:
but if you constantly charge $350-500 for a paint correction detail and someone wants it done for $275 and you accept the job, you still have to put forth the same effort to get desired results otherwise your name goes to junk as poor quality....THEN, where is your value of service at if you are always working for less????
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Yeah but your name doesn't "go to junk" after ONE single detail that isn't at full quality. Not even after a dozen non-Autopian details. It takes quite some bad work to gain a bad name. I know we Autopians always talk about how quickly you can get a bad reuptation, but unless you're in a town of 2000 people, or you did something bad enough to show up on the local news, one detail that a customer isn't happy with isn't going to ruin you. And, if the customer is aware that they're not getting a complete Autopian detail, then they shouldn't feel that they got poor quality anyways.
 
yeah, I was mainly talking about giving away your services like i know someone else who does just to gain jobs...rumor has it "just talk him down and he will still do the job for half the price because he needs the money bad". Thats the rep you DONT want!



IDK, I shoot for either just a one step to enhance the gloss and create a better looking car, or shoot for 90%+ on every car. I dont like doing two step jobs when it needs a heavier start with a middle clean up and a final polishing to get the look I am after, so for me, its usually a 3 step on all the cars I touch. Then again, all my stuff is usually in the 10-12 hour range...no wonder why I am always beat!
 
Quoting prices on the phone for detailing a car is extremely RISKY. Once quoted, it's very difficult to re-quote another price.

When you finally see the actual car....OMG! lots of crappy problems, you either hv to swallow it and proceed, or reject the car which means your scheduled day is gone. If you're lucky, the customer would be willing to fork out more. All depends on the type of customer you service.



In a nutshell, JC's area of concern depends on:



1. Your nature of business. Do you service everyone, or only high-end clientele/cars? If you hv to do "normal" cars belonging to non-enthusiasts who knows crap-all about detailing, then you obviously have lots of explanation to do to justify your price.

That's why, I avoid these bread and butter customers.



How do you operate?

If you own a shop, is it a "normal" shop or a high-end looking outfit? This is one of the main determinants of how high you can price your services. If you are a regular mobile detailer or you do it at home, then most non-enthusiasts might not be willing to pay too much unless they are your regular customers and accustomed to your great work.



2. How's your business performance?

If you're doing well, you don't need to act desperate and start slashing your prices. Your feet are well planted on the ground.

If things are not going well, and you're desperate for business, then you'll have to accept all kinds of jobs as long as it helps to put food on the table. In this case, price haggling will be frustrating.



My style is:



No price-discussions on the phone.

We're not selling oranges by the streetside:tongue:

I always meet personally with customer. Ask to see the car first.

Point out the problem areas and explain the steps to "fix" them.

Go on to explain the extensive labour involved. It's like home renovation.

Explain other competitors' prices - as a ballpark/guideline



Give customers a price range. eg: from 350-3000.

Don't go straight to the final price.

I tell the customer, it's like renovating his home.

How EXTENSIVE does he wanna do it??

What does he want it to look like?

How much time does he have?

Does he wanna camouflage the problems, or does he want to ADDRESS the problems? It's a totally different process and price.

Suggest a practical and sensible process.

....And then give him/her a FIRM price.



Do the job to impress.

If the customer cannot meet my budget, I would rather not do his car. Why??? If you try all kinds of shortcuts in order to meet his budget, the results might not impress him, and you'll never know what he'll say about you to his friends. Words will go around....trust me. Ever heard of horror stories about tuners who mess up other people's cars, resprayers who did a "bad job" etc?? Hey, you don't know the full story. How much were these guys paid in the 1st place? But it doesn't matter anymore cos the bad rumours are already flying around about "that guy".

You slogged like crap on that car, get paid a pittance, and you are not even impressed yourself...merely passable:cry1:



Generosity is not Flexibility

Ok, if you really need the business badly, and start giving small discounts or other small "freebies", it might appear harmless. But in the long term, this thing will come back to haunt you. Later, he'll want that same "package", and he might mention your generosity to his friends who want the same. Once you start getting into the habit of small discounts and giving freebies...the consumers will hold back and wait patiently for that "moment" again. And they'll squeeze you again...because they know you're easy to squeeze.



The notice in the zoo always say "Don't Feed The Monkeys".



My standard approach is: I can certainly give you a discount...only when you bring in a 2nd car. The work involved is just too extensive, and I can't go below this level. Be firm. You're the pro. It's your business to make money.



I have used this approach on many potential customers who make inquiries, and they return weeks or months later to me requesting for ANOTHER round of detailing cos their "generous" detailer (cheap job) couldn't give them what they want, or created new problems. I switch on the metal halides, point the new problems to them, explain that I hv even more work to do now.....and then, I unsheath my "ultra sharp pricing knife":happy:



Once their problems are solved, and the car looks stunning, they become my loyal customers and will never haggle price with me ever again.

Lesson learned...the expensive way.
 
gigondaz said:
Quoting prices on the phone for detailing a car is extremely RISKY. Once quoted, it's very difficult to re-quote another price.

When you finally see the actual car....OMG! lots of crappy problems, you either hv to swallow it and proceed, or reject the car which means your scheduled day is gone. If you're lucky, the customer would be willing to fork out more. All depends on the type of customer you service.



In a nutshell, JC's area of concern depends on:



1. Your nature of business. Do you service everyone, or only high-end clientele/cars? If you hv to do "normal" cars belonging to non-enthusiasts who knows crap-all about detailing, then you obviously have lots of explanation to do to justify your price.

That's why, I avoid these bread and butter customers.



How do you operate?

If you own a shop, is it a "normal" shop or a high-end looking outfit? This is one of the main determinants of how high you can price your services. If you are a regular mobile detailer or you do it at home, then most non-enthusiasts might not be willing to pay too much unless they are your regular customers and accustomed to your great work.



2. How's your business performance?

If you're doing well, you don't need to act desperate and start slashing your prices. Your feet are well planted on the ground.

If things are not going well, and you're desperate for business, then you'll have to accept all kinds of jobs as long as it helps to put food on the table. In this case, price haggling will be frustrating.



My style is:



No price-discussions on the phone.

We're not selling oranges by the streetside:tongue:

I always meet personally with customer. Ask to see the car first.

Point out the problem areas and explain the steps to "fix" them.

Go on to explain the extensive labour involved. It's like home renovation.

Explain other competitors' prices - as a ballpark/guideline



Give customers a price range. eg: from 350-3000.

Don't go straight to the final price.

I tell the customer, it's like renovating his home.

How EXTENSIVE does he wanna do it??

What does he want it to look like?

How much time does he have?

Does he wanna camouflage the problems, or does he want to ADDRESS the problems? It's a totally different process and price.

Suggest a practical and sensible process.

....And then give him/her a FIRM price.



Do the job to impress.

If the customer cannot meet my budget, I would rather not do his car. Why??? If you try all kinds of shortcuts in order to meet his budget, the results might not impress him, and you'll never know what he'll say about you to his friends. Words will go around....trust me. Ever heard of horror stories about tuners who mess up other people's cars, resprayers who did a "bad job" etc?? Hey, you don't know the full story. How much were these guys paid in the 1st place? But it doesn't matter anymore cos the bad rumours are already flying around about "that guy".

You slogged like crap on that car, get paid a pittance, and you are not even impressed yourself...merely passable:cry1:



Generosity is not Flexibility

Ok, if you really need the business badly, and start giving small discounts or other small "freebies", it might appear harmless. But in the long term, this thing will come back to haunt you. Later, he'll want that same "package", and he might mention your generosity to his friends who want the same. Once you start getting into the habit of small discounts and giving freebies...the consumers will hold back and wait patiently for that "moment" again. And they'll squeeze you again...because they know you're easy to squeeze.



The notice in the zoo always say "Don't Feed The Monkeys".



My standard approach is: I can certainly give you a discount...only when you bring in a 2nd car. The work involved is just too extensive, and I can't go below this level. Be firm. You're the pro. It's your business to make money.



I have used this approach on many potential customers who make inquiries, and they return weeks or months later to me requesting for ANOTHER round of detailing cos their "generous" detailer (cheap job) couldn't give them what they want, or created new problems. I switch on the metal halides, point the new problems to them, explain that I hv even more work to do now.....and then, I unsheath my "ultra sharp pricing knife":happy:



Once their problems are solved, and the car looks stunning, they become my loyal customers and will never haggle price with me ever again.

Lesson learned...the expensive way.
Click to expand...



By far one of the most informative posts in this thread, thank you!
 
This is a really good thread.

I thinks its always good to get other people's insight on how

they handle things like this.



To add my two cents:

I know what services I have that I'm willing to compromise

my price on. I think its important not to give too much

away when it comes to more labor intensive services...

especially considering how much of this business is word of

mouth. But when it comes to normal services, I'm usually

willing to compromise.
 
I think some are missing the point.



Short of knocking off some small amount of money to satisfy a client's urge to "get a deal"/save money over "retail". If you drop the price you tell them you're dropping the price but you're also not doing everything that was originally noted.



Sales 101:

There are 4 things that will keep someone from using you or will get you more business.



1. Do they feel comfortable with your company?

In other words, are you a fly by night/new company? Do you have a bad or good reputation? Those types of things are what will dictate the answer.



2. Do they like you?

Sure, you have a business and a reputation, but when they met you over a phone call or in person, did they like you? Or, where you obnoxious, brash, annoying, short with them, ect...? People buy from people they like. If you're not likable it doesn't matter what you do, you're not getting their business.



3. Is what you're selling what they want?

You had a 20+ minute conversation about all the awesome stuff you do. But are they looking for what you offer? If you only offer fast/cheap work but they are looking for that "autopian touch"(or visa versa), they will move on.



4. This is the point. Is the price right?

If everything else is exactly what they want, it will always come down to the price being right. Again tho, most of the time they will not offer this bit of info and you need to tactfully get them to say it. The truth is, there are ways to get the price right. It will mean they don't get everything, but it can be done. And again, I use the example of saving them $75 on that full detail he's dying to get by telling him that you can save him that money but he will have to do without a leather detail.



It's pretty straight forward. If you want someone's business and they want to save money, save them money not by cutting down on quality deceitfully, tell them they will have to back off somewhere and chances are you can snag a few extra details you'd otherwise lose in a month.
 
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