Miracle turnarounds in no time

R

RAG

New member
Edit - sorry for the confusion...I'll blame the wife, as she rushed me out the door this morning before I got to finish/edit. My point was that I keep coming across posts where people claim they've made ugly paint perfect with just two passes of the buffer...basically, not many people accurately admin how long it takes to properly polishing paint. The problem is that all these NOOBs out there then don't understand why they can do it with as little effort.



Over the years on Autopia I've noticed one thing has not changed - people continue to post pictures showing results that don't underestimate the true amount of work it takes to remove swirls. You've all seen it, the black car that looked like a train wreck that was turned into perfection with a simple 1-step polish process that only took two passes. Also, I know pictures can be made to be deceiving.
 
RAG said:
Over the years on Autopia I've noticed one thing has not changed - people continue to post pictures showing results that don't underestimate the true amount of work it takes to remove swirls. You've all seen it, the black car that looked like a train wreck that was turned into perfection with a simple 1-step polish process that only took two passes. Also, I know pictures can be made to be deceiving.
Click to expand...





I'm confused? What exactly are you saying?
 
I think what he is saying that pics dont really convey what it really takes to turn a nightmare around. Simple one step procedures are great for well maintained vehicles, not swirls from hell. And a camera pic which reveals a noticeably improved difference, may not be speaking "the total truth".

I for one am guilty of it! But by no fault of my own, the camera just doesnt represent factual circumstances, nor reality when it comes to true correction(s) or significant improvements.
 
Gotcha!



I agree as well. Tomorrow I am planning on taking a trunk lid I have and showing pics of the polishing process with my polishes and a Cyclo and some rotary work but the pictures won't be able to tell how long it actually took me to get to the end.
 
you want people to work with one hand and take non-stop photos with the other? or perhaps a cameraman to document the whole detail. or maybe some close-up HD video? i don't get it?
 
I don't really understand what his point is either...but I have always taken pictures with a grain of salt.



A little bit of brightness and contrast adjustment can make any after picture look amazing. Whether the end result is truly impressive, or not.
 
I know what you mean there, not to point fingers but I saw a C&B recently that I absolutely did not believe. It looked like this guy did in 3 hours what would take me 10, and he wasn't using a rotary either.
 
Of course this will happen, but it all comes down to honesty. If you are pleased with the outcome, you can pat yourself on the back. At the end of the "day" or "detail" you will be the only one who really knows the type of hard work it took to transform the vehicle from A ----> B. Hell, if I am doing a correction and I am not pleased with it, I will do whatever it takes to get it to that level where I know the owner will be stunned. Of course, you have to see it to believe it ;)



Many of us know the hard work that goes behind every 10+ hour full correction.



Pictures are pictures, they always will be. Try to represent the pictures best to the "job" you completed, of course not everyone will be pleased.



-Martin
 
RAG said:
Over the years on Autopia I've noticed one thing has not changed - people continue to post pictures showing results that don't underestimate the true amount of work it takes to remove swirls.
Click to expand...



Did you mean to omit "don't"? If you did, it makes sense to me.
 
MartinD said:
Of course this will happen, but it all comes down to honesty. If you are pleased with the outcome, you can pat yourself on the back. At the end of the "day" or "detail" you will be the only one who really knows the type of hard work it took to transform the vehicle from A ----> B. Hell, if I am doing a correction and I am not pleased with it, I will do whatever it takes to get it to that level where I know the owner will be stunned. Of course, you have to see it to believe it ;)



Many of us know the hard work that goes behind every 10+ hour full correction.



Pictures are pictures, they always will be. Try to represent the pictures best to the "job" you completed, of course not everyone will be pleased.



-Martin
Click to expand...



This man speaks truth.
 
I agreed with themightytimmah, MartinD, I don't know how some folks do a detail in less than 4 hrs. If there is some new magic trick to this i wish someone tell me. I'll take about 9-13 hrs for one and for this old body of mine, i so beat from it. But when my customer see's it :drool: , it makes me very happly! ............
 
Ryan, now I understand what you're talking about. You are right.



It does take a lot of time and I know I've seen plenty of threads with sun shots or hologen shots showing the swirls before and then after shots with no sun or no hologens and it really isn't showing anything at all.



That's why I've started closely documenting my work, like on the 56 Bel Air I posted about, as well as setting up the camera on a tripod and leaving the hologens in the exact same position before and after so the correction is truely noted.



Josh
 
I have to agree too. I know that some cars are too far gone to be brought back with a one or two step process, especially when the lights are on the in the befores and not the afters. I can understand if the car is the sun at the start and clouds roll in before the car is done so you can't do sun shots, but if you use halogens in the befores, you should use them in the afters too.
 
No i'll agree with RAG, I posted about this not too long ago. I think he's trying to say (don't quote me) that he's dumbfounded how a lot of people post C&Bs saying that they detailed an entire car, (medium to heavy swirling/marring, etc.) with 1 or 2 passes.



TO make it more unbelieveable, when I posted about this, people were doing this with only a PC/UDM!!! How can you finish a car with ONLY a PC/UDM in under 3 or 4 hours?! It doesn't make sense, especially if you're doing it properly.



He then goes on to say that for those trying to get into detailing, it's unfair to them because they get a lot of equipment and chemicals based on what they've seen, and can't replicate the results...



I for one am guilty of the latter as I looked at numerous posts, obtained the same equipment (pc/udm) and chemicals (pb ssr, menz, etc) and tried to do EVERYTHING I saw... I was able to, but in nearly twice the time it took the original poster.



Just be honest when you post your links and take the pictures properly. If you used HALOGENs to diagnose the swirls, use it again when taking the final pictures after your correction.
 
I agree with most of the points made in this thread. It takes me 10+ hours to do a full detail (clay, buff x2-3, interior) using a PC or UDM on an average sized vehicle.



One person, G35stilez, however, does his work in no time at all and always includes full sun/halogen before and after pics, and his work comes out great every time.
 
I see what you mean RAG, it's kind of bad for the forum. I've seen many c & b's that are at the very least suspect. What many newcomers fail to realize is that it's ok to show what true defect removal was done, not everything has to look perfect. It is not an "easy" thing to do to perfect paint. It's bad representation to any pro out there, and definitely this forum, if they claim to be a true autopian.
 
I'm probably one of the few that finds a 3 step polish takes me about 14 hours, let alone 6-8 for the interior. If i am doing panel by panel correction it usually runs me 2 days or more on the paint. This is probably the primary reason i do not post many details online. 1 i don't have time to take pictures and process them from raw to sized jpgs . I am usually working 6 days a week as it is. Two, the photos do not often accurate portray what was removed or remains.



For instance i see people take photo's out side from 12 ft away showing the rotary burn they are about to fix. they get the car in the garage and all subsequent images are from under 2 ft. rotary burn can only be accurately shown at a distance. so why are they not taking a step back to 12 ft and showing the images again.



Another issue is halogens only show one portion of marring from paint. You really need several sources of lights that are over the complete kelvin spectrum. xenon, hid, sun gun, metal halide. with out that you really have no idea of what is remaining in the paint.



I have tried to mention my concerns in private conversations to folks, but it usually hits a brick wall of "i have been detailing for x years, blah blah."



I know some cars clean up 85-90% with one pass, they are few and far between. I know other cars that take me two days to deal with. often i think people get a little bit over confident and start to under work products. When you under work product, Nearly any product, it will do an excellent job at hiding a fairly large portion of the marring. This is a common theme i find with even products that contain no fillers. This gives people who are inexperienced with a product (500-1000 cars or more) a false sense of accomplishment.



My 2 cents in a world of 20 dollar bills.
 
Like I said already, I think that everything that is seen in the click and brag forum needs to be taken with a grain of salt.



Unfortunately, not everyone on here is equal in terms of their abilities. But...being an internet forum, the reality show on the pages that we see and the reality faced for these peoples customers are two different things. Obviously nobody wants to look inferior to someone else, so that in itself is motivation to show things a little bit better than they actually are.



VaSuperShine posted that not everyone can make everything perfect, and this is totally true. But at the same time, hardly anybody on here wants to highlight that they were unable to attain that perfection; mainly because they think that it makes them look bad. Unfortunately, most of the true pros on here probably respect those that show those imperfections when they occur more than those who always show a perfect finished product.



These cars are driven people, and they are driven by people who aren't detailers themselves. People who wipe off bird bombs with red shop towels, and think it is cool to wash their cars with dishwash soap in between times that we see them. S**T happens in between the times that we try and make something perfect, and as good as we all can be, sometimes we can't keep up. So show how bad things are when they are bad, it only helps to make things look that much better when you show how good they are.
 
Grouse said:
When you under work product, Nearly any product, it will do an excellent job at hiding a fairly large portion of the marring. This is a common theme i find with even products that contain no fillers. This gives people who are inexperienced with a product (500-1000 cars or more) a false sense of accomplishment.
Click to expand...





Very familiar take, nice to see you come around.
 
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