Menzerna's New 106FA (pic)

[ptaylor_9849]

With no disrespect to the original poster. If paint correction was as easy as making one pass with a PC, then there would be no need for this forum to exist and professional detailers would not be necessary. Justin, I think your friend isn't telling you the whole story. Either that or Renault paint is softer than anything I've ever seen.

 

[justin30513]

With no disrespect to the original poster. If paint correction was as easy as making one pass with a PC, then there would be no need for this forum to exist and professional detailers would not be necessary. Justin, I think your friend isn't telling you the whole story. Either that or Renault paint is softer than anything I've ever seen.

You're right. Totally. He's not my friend personally though. I just found this post that he took the time to do and put some of it up here.



I guess one of my qualities is that I assume that everything is true until I find out further. I believe him as do I with every post on here. I did find out the other day that some say you can enhance photos with photoshop to give a car more gloss. This is just detailing!



LOL!

 

[mbkintner]

I found that the Menzerna polishes work better with the LC pads more than the Edge pads..do not know why..if it is the foam composition or what...I was doing a little playing with Intensive polish 3.01 and used a green edge pad and seemed to get no where..used a green CSS pad and it cut first pass...strange finding....



I held off on one of my orders to see if the Intensive polish 3.02 and 106 FA was coming in to the vendors in Europe..seems like Menzerna is very behind in getting their products shipped...I called Menzerna USA to get some info on some products...as to product releases and product info ..better off talking to a bag of rocks..



Al

Al,



What specific problems were you having when using Menzerna with the Edge pads? I've been bouncing back and forth between buying the 5.25" CCS pads from Danase or the Edge system and pads. Lately I've been leaning towards the Edge system and had intended on using these with Menzerna and Optimum polishes. Now you've got me worried.



Mike

 

[AL-53]

It all depends how you define a pass..If I work a panel for say 6 minutes with a polish..and wipe it down to check...I called that 1 pass ..now if it needs more correction..thats starts the second pass...never know what a product does till you use it your self...and this polish being new..it may have well did the correction as shown...



I use menzerna alot and it does work best..



my last order





Products ordered

SKU Product Tax Item price Quantity Total



18 Menzerna Final Finish (PO85RD) 1 L €19.95 x 2 €39.90

SKU310 Menzerna Final Finish PO85RE5 €14.95 x 3 €44.85

SKU301 Menzerna Final Finish PO106FF €16.95 x 2 €33.90

SKU278 Menzerna Intensive Polish PO85RD3.01 - 500ml €14.95 x 4 €59.80

Subtotal: €178.45

Shipping cost: €49.43



Total: €227.88





and another order..as you see I did ask about the 106FA



Hello Alan



Prices pretty much as is .. postage has changed a bit, not much .. I only have the PO106FF and not the 106FA



so it works out at EUR73.00 for the 3 Litres (1500ml PO106FF, 1000ml PO85RD3 IP & 500ml PO85RD) + EUR51.50 P & P = EUR124.50 GROSS for everything delivered. (2 boxes).



I will have to mix things up slightly as PO106FF is a bit heavier and hard to scrape under the 2kg weight limit, but will put the litre in with 500ml of PO85RD.



Then put the 500ml of PO106FF with the 1000ml PO85RD3 etc. Same thing in the end.



Regards,





Is menzerna worth it and do the job...YES



Al

 

[ptaylor_9849]

Justin, please don't feel that people are attacking you personally. It's just that your original post would have many believe that if they simply make one pass using 106FA, they may achieve similar results. I have used Menzerna polishes for years and I have NEVER had results like that with just one pass. Please know that most of us here are eager to learn from others and we are all searching for that magical recipe that will provide the best results with the least amount of time, effort and investment. As I stated before, I had a mark on my hood that I put there accidentally with the edge of a microfiber polishing cloth. This was not a scratch it was simply marring. I spent three hours on that area with my PC on speed six and a 6.5" yellow LC CCS compounding pad with 106FF. Many, many, many passes later it didn't budge and please know that my hood was no where near as bad as the car in your photos. Hopefully, people aren't attacking you personally, they are just not getting the same results your friend claims he got and that is what is raising eyebrows.



Respectfully,



Patrick

 

[01bluecls]

Like I said Im not here to start wars and I say I know everything. It just seems very far fetched, that is all. If a PC and 106FA can pull results like that ALONE, then I will sell my rotary and all my polishes and just use that combo. I did read the original thread linked and he did mention using IP in some areas. Im basing my opinion off of my personal experience. I have done MANY SOFT paints and PC always seems to leave some micromarring that may not show on photos or be able to see more then a foot away.



Also, what leaves me to believe is the original poster has much to gain since the person seems to retail all the products he uses in the thread. Making people believe that 106FA is easy to use, and his results can be achieved by those pics, he stands to make a lot of sales. I have seen a lot of work posted on this forum and I cant remember ANYONE posting before and after pics like that from a single PC step with a light polish and polishing pad. That is why I am skeptical of the facts that are presented. Now if, the results acheived were from a rotary, more aggressive poilsh, or multiple passes with the PC I would not be having this conversation.



I may be wrong about the whole thing, but something just doesnt add up :nixweiss



If I am wrong, I apologize.

 

[01bluecls]

Justin, please don't feel that people are attacking you personally. It's just that your original post would have many believe that if they simply make one pass using 106FA, they may achieve similar results. I have used Menzerna polishes for years and I have NEVER had results like that with just one pass. Please know that most of us here are eager to learn from others and we are all searching for that magical recipe that will provide the best results with the least amount of time, effort and investment. As I stated before, I had a mark on my hood that I put there accidentally with the edge of a microfiber polishing cloth. This was not a scratch it was simply marring. I spent three hours on that area with my PC on speed six and a 6.5" yellow LC CCS compounding pad with 106FF. Many, many, many passes later it didn't budge and please know that my hood was no where near as bad as the car in your photos. Hopefully, people aren't attacking you personally, they are just not getting the same results your friend claims he got and that is what is raising eyebrows.



Respectfully,



Patrick

Very well said...



Justin Im not attacking you directly or indirectly. I just feel ALL the facts are not being represented, intentionally or not.

 

[imported_DieselMDX]

Just to let you guys know I found a connection for Menz 85rd in USA, I will be making a thread when i find more info but if you are interested PM me because they probly will go fast.

 

[01bluecls]

Why is there a Makita rotary in the last picture when he says he did it via PC? I see that he used the PC on the Detailing World site but I think he may have had some help from Mr. Makita...

Good catch! ... Im sure the tool is not just lying around, you can see there is polish build up on the pad and im sure someone isnt going to lay a buffer one foot away from the car when its not going to be used.

 

[01bluecls]

I re-read my posts and it seems I may be coming off as "not nice" but here are notes why I feel there is deception behind CleanYourCars thread over at detailing world.



1. He is a vendor that sells ALL of the products he uses. He has sales to gain convincing people the this new polish is the best easy to use polish that can achieve amazing reults from PC alone. (Look at the detailing market as a community and I would say 90% or more use the PC)

2. Pictures in his thread easily shows the name of the product (Porter Cable, Polycharger, SuperSpray) Kind of like putting a BMW in a movie.

3. There is a Makita buffer RIGHT NEXT to the car in a picture with a pad on it and polish build on the pad. He states in the thread he only used the PC, with no mention to using the rotary.

4. Results that he has achieved are stunning none the less, but by his process that he states alone... I dont think so.

5. He states he removed 6-8 microns...using PC light polish and polish pad...again I dont think so. I have used EC with a rotary @ 1500 rpms with multiple passes and have not removed that much. I assuming the microns he is mentioning is the same as the ums my paint guage reads. There are two readings most paint gauges give, um and mils. If im wrong about this I apologize in advance.



Im sorry if im posting a lot about this issue. I feel like it is blatent deception.

 

[porta]

:welcome to last year....

Sorry, I must be stupid but I don´t know what you mean?

 

[steck]

With no disrespect to the original poster. If paint correction was as easy as making one pass with a PC, then there would be no need for this forum to exist and professional detailers would not be necessary. Justin, I think your friend isn't telling you the whole story. Either that or Renault paint is softer than anything I've ever seen.

i was just thinkin that !!

 

[justin30513]

Very well said...



Justin Im not attacking you directly or indirectly. I just feel ALL the facts are not being represented, intentionally or not.

Understood. Do you all really thing that this couldn't be done? I done similar myself with OHC.........

Full post soon.

 

[01bluecls]

Justin - OHC is an aggressive compound and you probably used a cutting pad more than likely. I still see defects in on the hood of your pics. Cleanyourcar's pics has ZERO defects and he didnt use any compound or cutting pad....big difference. You dont still believe his post is accurate after everything I presented do you??

 

[imported_Dave KG]

Hmmm, this thread developped very interestingly didn't it....



If I may just add to this with my experiences of the Menzerna polishes and from them I wouldn not be entirely surprised if that level of correction coould be achieved with one set of passes (where I define as pass as moving the machine once across the panel, and a set the set of passes to break the polish down)...



First of all, we have to remember (as many obviously do) that paints very in hardness from not just manufacturer to manufacturer, not even model to model, but car to car! I have detailed two Renault Clios - one with very hard paint, the other very soft...



Now, I quite frequently do machine polishing demonstrations to folk, mainly with the PC in the UK, so many will see the results I achieve up close and personal as I demonstrate them. I use the Menzerna polishes for my demonstrations, and both myself and those I demonstrate to are amazed by the correction that can be achieved by correctly working a light abrasive polish, espeically on softer paints... Indeed I would go as far as to say this is not restricted to Menz polishes, try Meguiars #80 as well, work it thoroughly (takes a good 5 minutes over a small work area of about 18" sqaure to fully break it down) and you may just be surprised by what it removes... And before anyone cries "fillers", wipe it down with IPA... thats what I did and there was no evidence of fillers in the product. Indeed, on a black Audi A4, marring was removed with #80 using a polishing pad and thorughly working the polish - this was on a demonstration day by for the owner of the car who had just bought the PC.



The results above may seem very hard to believe but I have seen correction of this level with lighter abrasives myself, worked by myself on demonstration days and details. Not on all paints obviously, but softer paints are very easy to correct. Indeed I do feel that there is a tendancy amongst some detailers to get too aggressive too quickly with polishes, moving to compounds when actually thorughly working a light abrasive is all that is needed. I always use the less is more principle when polishing - achieve the defect correction required, but with the least possible aggressiveness.



I am here quite frankly a little disappointed in the way that the credibility of a poster here has been called into question in the way it has been done... I do undertand that seeing correction like this achieved with a light abrasive is hard to believe, but it is possible with correct working of light abrasives on soft paint, I have done it myself... And no, I dont work for or sell Menzerna myself, and its not always the Menzerna that surprises me - good old #80 has far more correcting power in my eyes than people give it credit for.

 

[01bluecls]

Im not saying a PC cannot correct. Im saying cleanyourcars post just doesnt add up. Why is the Makita right next to the car in the pic?? I also use Menzerna and have used Powergloss, IP, FPII, and 106FF. I have used Optimum polishes and have all three. I have used the PC and the Rotary. I have polished ultra soft paint that would marr wiping an LSP off with a clean high quality mf with nothing caught in the mf. I also use the least agreesive method when approaching paint, but since Im familiar with a lot of different paints I tend to know what corrections will be needed with what paints to some degree.



Why did I post all that? I safely say my experience in detailing tells me that something is wrong with his story. DaveKG im not attacking your comments. I just would like more "proof" of a polishing pad and this 106FA pulling results like this on other vehicles and from other detailers.





I would like people to post pics of the SAME level of defects cleanyourcar's pics has and show me afters of results from a final polish and polishing pad by PC. I can go through 100 of threads where cutting pads and more aggressive polishes were used that didnt produce the 50/50 shots you see.



Maybe i'm over reacting a little, but until things are proven, in my eyes credibility is hard to perceive in cleanyourcar's thread.

 

[Dave Pickett]

KG, I dont have enough experience to comment on the credibility of the correction, but I do agree on the capabilities of #80, its my favourite product.



I think there is a trend on DW for us all to believe that the latest product is the be all and end all and we all have to dash out and buy it (boutique waxes being the current favourite, when most of us know its the polishing and prep stages that give most of the gloss!!!)



Personally I hvae far too many products and am trying to use up my surplus and revert to mainly megs products which I know and understand, I believe in Mike Philips mantra



"find something you like and use it often"



I have been tempted by menz products on the back of various write ups, but their product codes put me off, what a nonsense!!!!



guess we are all guilty of chasing perfection!!!

 

[crew219]

I think Dave KG is correct . . .there is a discrepancy between what the OP considers a pass and what we consider a pass. There is no way with ANY polish that a single pass (once over with the pad) will break down the polish enough to achieve that amount of correction. However, with one set of passes (working in a single application of polish), I can certainly seeing the PO106ff achieving this finish. A week ago, I did spot work on a black acura TL with the same polish and was able to achieve similar correction with one application of polish, being worked over in the same area for about 2-3 minutes.



Dave

 

[01bluecls]

I think Dave KG is correct . . .there is a discrepancy between what the OP considers a pass and what we consider a pass. There is no way with ANY polish that a single pass (once over with the pad) will break down the polish enough to achieve that amount of correction. However, with one set of passes (working in a single application of polish), I can certainly seeing the PO106ff achieving this finish. A week ago, I did spot work on a black acura TL with the same polish and was able to achieve similar correction with one application of polish, being worked over in the same area for about 2-3 minutes.



Dave

Im not at all arguing the definition we consider "one pass," you can see in my first post in this thread I noted that a single pass was not one motion left to right but instead a working of the polish.



Im surprised that many of you so far feel this way. Still, no one is addressing my concern of the makita in the pic. Im sure I leave my makita laying around with a pad and polish build up on it right next to the car if im not using it!



I would really like the opinions of some of the pros on this forum such as Superior Fine, Picus, G35stilez, Tdekany and many of those who have proven their polishing capabilities.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Chris, it's possible that the rotary was used on the back section of the car (spoiler) and he decided to give it a go with something less aggressive? For me not having worked with the paint or the polish I can't say that it is or isn't possible.