Meguiar's and the glaze/polish confusion

I

imported_Aurora40

New member
I have seen a fair amount of references to how Meguiar's blurs the terms "glaze" and "polish". However, I'm not really sure where that comes from. The accepted (and common-sense) definition is that a polish will have some abrasion and thus provides some polishing action. A glaze will not be abrasive, but will restore gloss through nourishing the paint. But if you look at Meguiar's professional products, they all conform to this.



Glazes:

#3 Machine Glaze

#5 New Car Glaze

#7 Show Car Glaze



Polishes:

#81 Hand Polish (ok, the abrasive is very light, but it is a polish)

#82 Swirl Free Polish

#83 Dual-Action Cleaner/Polish



The only weird ones are #80 Speed Glaze, but that's an all-in-one that protects too. So it isn't a polish either. It doesn't blur the line, it just has a dumb name. And the other is the Deep Crystal Polish, but that's the consumer line and they all are confusing as to what exactly they contain or do.



There are also some cleaners that I suppose could be called polishes, but I think it makes sense that they aren't. Plus, they usually contain the word "cut" or "compound" so it should be clear that they have some polishing ability. And they have more cut than the word "polish" seems to imply.



For some reason I started thinking about this when I was looking at my bottle of #7... :nixweiss
 
Wow! Glad I'm not the only person who is confused. I think Meguiar's classifies a "cleaner" as something that removes contaminants and paint defects and a "polish" as something that creates high gloss. What they should've done is name all the "cleaner" products "polishes" and all the "polish" products "glazes" But then there's the SWP and hand polish. At least the waxes aren't confusing, or are they? :nixweiss
 
Personally, I think Meg's is only hurting themselves with the many products they offer, their all very confusing. I dont use the stuff, ,but when I see it on the shelves or someone ask's me which one to use, I tell em try Mothers, they have all you need and nothing more.......I guess the Meadallion line is prolly more they way they should be marketing there consumer products, but its a lil late for that now ! Just another tidbit, I had a problem with there # 20 yesterday, and called them, no avail, they were of no help to me.....And what he had told me about the # 20, wasnt what i was lead to believe from the bottle........I just think theres too many options with the consumer line......
 
Okay, okay. Since I'm probably the one that complains the most about this issue and points it out the most often, I guess I should speak up.



I don't think I'm mistaken that generally most people regard the word "polish" to mean shining up a surface using abrasive action, and that "glazes" are generally products that fill in and hide imperfections, right? Well, I've never liked how Meguiar's tries to confuse the consumer using euphemisms and "DoubleSpeak" in their massive product lines. Here are several of the reasons why I think this:



1) On the Meguiar's website, the Products section divides much of their stuff into five separate steps in paint care. http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/Showroom_template.cfm?page_name=Meguiar's%20Product%20Showroom

Notice Step 3 is called Polishing. When you click it what do you find? Nothing but glazes and glaze-like products. Besides the swirl removers, there's not much there that people would look at and call a "polish".



2) Included in this category is the Deep Crystal System Step 2, called Polish. If you read the description they offer and on the bottle itself, you soon realize they don't mention anything that would imply a true polishing action. Despite this, they describe this as a "...pure polish..." whatever that means. :rolleyes:



3) Yes, some of their products are named right, like New Car Glaze, and Show Car Glaze, but here's exactly how they talk about their #7 Show Car Glaze: "For those of you who love a hand-rubbed finish, this superb glaze is guaranteed to give you that deep, wet shine prized among car collectors. This polish will outshine all other hand-applied polishes, glazes, waxes or sealants." So which is it??? A glaze, or a polish?



4) BSP Hand Polish is not a polish. It is a glaze. The aggressiveness rating is near the very bottom, and if you read the product description, it talks about all sorts of meaningless mumbo-jumbo about "rich nutrients" and "vital oils" but it doesn't mention anything about actually polishing out defects! Gimme a break Meguiar's....



5) BSP Dual Action Cleaner Polish IS a true polish, BUT the "polish" it refers to is not the cutting abrasives at all - it's touting its glaze content. It is "dual action" because it has both abrasives and glaze (not because it's forumlated for use with a Dual Action Polisher (PC)). Here's what it says on the back of the bottle: "Contains the perfect amount of abrasive cleaner and pure, rich polish to produce a customer pleasing deep gloss shine." Think of DACP as a really strong version of #9 Swirl Remover.



6) Repeated use of the term "polishing oils" - whatever the heck that is supposed to be. :rolleyes:



I know for me, when I was shopping for car care stuff in my pre-Autopia days the DCS Step 2 Polish confused me enough that I didn't want to get it, thinking that "Hey, this screwy system has TWO steps where you rub away the paint - no thanks!" I purchased the Mothers Ultimate system instead because, "Oh look - it has a glaze!" :up I know someone else who thought likewise and only bought Megs Steps 1 and 3.



While I'm up, I might as well complain about Megs #66 Quick Detailer, which is NOT NOT NOT a QD spray at all, but an aggressive cleaner wax! Some poor member here bought this gallon only sized junk by mistake, thinking it was QD spray. Should he have read it better before buying? Yes. Did Meguiar's HAVE TO name it Quick Detailer? NO. :mad:



(deep breath)



It seems that Meguiar's likes to call their abrasives "cleaners". I agree with tkr128 that they should re-name their "cleaners" to "polishes" and re-name their "polishes" to "glazes". This wouldn't be far out of line, as my bottle of 3M SMR for Dark Cars is properly called "Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirl Mark Remover", and the instructions keep calling it a glaze. But we know that SMR does contain some abrasives.



Which leads me to the next bit of clarification I'd like to make. And that's that some products combine a bit of both polish and glaze to give the final job some better gloss. These are products like BSP Swirl Free Polish, #9 Swirl Remover, DACP, and 3M SMR. So yes, it's possible for a glaze to have abrasive "cut" to it, so cut alone does not strictly define what is and what isn't a glaze. But I think anything less abrasive than a swirl remover should be considered a glaze because at that point it's doing more hiding/filling than it is actual polishing.



And this is why I think Meguiar's is in their own little self-contained universe. :down
 
right on the front of the bottle of #7, it says PURE POLISH. that is why i initially bought it in my pre-autopia days. how is it not confusing for a glaze to say pure polish on the front? :nixweiss
 
I disagree about how their cleaners should be called polishes. I expect a polish to have abrasives and nourishing oils. To polish something means to make it smooth and shiny. The cleaners really don't do that. They are much more aggressive and are essentially just abrasives and chemical cleaners. So I really don't think they should be called polishes. In my opinion it takes more than just abrasive to be a polish. It takes abrasive and something to add shine. To me, the name DACP makes perfect sense because it cleans crap off the paint and also polishes it by smoothing it and shining it. I don't think Cleaner/Glaze would be as appropriate.



Also, as far as the step being called "polish", they have to call it something. If they called it the "glaze" step, you'd be complaining that it includes SFP and Hand Polish (which is abrasive). I don't think they need 6 steps to have polishes and glazes. Those steps are just rough classifications of products (although I do hate how they always refer to a detail job as having 5 steps. I mean, it all depends on the job. It isn't like if you pick one product from each "step" you'll be good to go. I think that is the thing they should change, not the classifications).



I agree about the product descriptions, though. They use polish and glaze interchangably there. But really, everything about their descriptions is horrible. Every protectant delivers a "deep, rich, durable shine" and all the glazes/polishes do something for swirls while delivering the "ultimate" shine. It's practically impossible to differentiate products based on their descriptions. Sometimes you have to look for the tiniest little nugget in the description to get an idea of why they even make the product. Like New Car Glaze contains the phrase "with very little effort" in a big paragraph description. I would surmise that it is supposed to be easier to apply than #3 or #7. But it sure isn't obvious. All the rest of the description makes #3, #5 and #7 sound like the same damn thing. And why is Hand Polish the "gentlest way to achieve a perfectly smooth finish"? Do they mean the gentlest abrasive product? I mean, surely #7 is as gentle if not gentler. So I would submit that Meguiar's descriptions aren't crap because they blur polishes and glazes, but they are crap because they are just totally crappy. They blur everything. But the names make sense with only few exceptions (QD and SG).



And you are right. Quick Detailer is a horrible name for that product. As is Speed Glaze. It's moronic. They should call Quick Detailer something like Aggressive Cleaner/Wax. I don't know what they should call Speed Glaze, but something other than "Glaze". However, one look at the description for Quick Detailer and it is fairly obvious it isn't a QD spray. But yes, this is certainly a confusing name.



Meguiar's does have some excellent paint prep products, but they need to hire some people to write better descriptions for them. They also need to educate their customer service people more as to what the differences with the products are. It's a shame they seem reluctant to admit there is a problem. I agree they've got some problems. I just don't think they misuse polish and glaze in their product names. When it comes to Autopia, people rarely quote the description. If you are telling some noob dude he needs a polish and should try some 3M polish, then optionally follow it with a glaze and should try Show Car Glaze, you don't then have to explain how Meguiar's is screwy and misused the terms. The name makes perfect sense. You don't tell him to try Show Car Glaze because it contains "pure polishing oils", you tell him to try it because you've used it and it worked. You tell him what glazes will do or why he might want to try one, and then recommend glaze. No problems...



It isn't that I don't think Meguiar's has problems with their product terminology and differentiation. They certainly do. And their tech support compounds it. But I just don't think they are as bad as they get called sometimes. Sometimes they get referred to like they were the Anti-Autopia...
 
Interesting thread and commentary. Good input from you guys.



I've been using Meguiar's products since I was 13 (I'm 37). Life was more straightforward back then. Meguiar's was a more humble and helpful company too. Ahhh, how things change.....



I think one area where we get ourselves confused is mixing all the Meguiar's product lines toghether and then trying to decipher which product does what. Maybe if you'd look at each product within the context of its line, things would be clearer.



There's defintely going to be some overlap in their product lines which is likely due to how and who they market to. Meguiar's doesn't seem to engineer a completely new product for a particular line, they just reformulate some products and add it to that product line. So the diffs between a specific product in one line may be negligable compared to another product from another line. Make sense? (I hope).



I agree that some product names are misleading but I feel its incumbent on the purchaser to make sure of what they're buying. Read the product label, ask for help, call Meguiar's.....



One thing I think is kinda funny is that here we are, just a bunch of hard core individual enthusiasts, kvetching over the confusing variety of Meguiar's polishes, like we really need all that product. How much polish or glaze does any of us really need? How often are we really using a polish - once or twice a year maybe? I think that sometimes we get ourselves into trouble by desperately looking for that perfect product without really knowing what we want. We hear about a particular product (like DACP), we all run out to buy it, then get upset when it adds to the overall confusion of what to buy and use.



Anyway, that's more than my two cents on the topic. Have fun shopping for whatever polish you think you want/need/gotta have/been told to buy/whatever.
 
bretfraz said:
One thing I think is kinda funny is that here we are, just a bunch of hard core individual enthusiasts, kvetching over the confusing variety of Meguiar's polishes, like we really need all that product...
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LOL, you're right - it is kinda funny. :D (also the word "kvetching" is funny too)





One thing I forgot to mention above is that I don't think I've ever brought this up for no reason out of the blue, and only make a point of saying it if I think someone (typically a newbie) may have gotten sucked into Meguiar's definition of "polishing". I only hope I haven't been out of line or anything, and I just didn't want someone to get terminology mixed up or thinking that using some glaze would remove their swirls.



I'm probably being totally a--- about it, but I just like to stick to the dictionary definition of polish, which is (according to Merriam Webster) "to make smooth and glossy usually by friction." (Which is a synonym for "burnish", there are other definitions too.) So there's my personal requirement for a polish I suppose, abrasives.



I don't actually dislike Meguiar's by the way (I happily use some of their stuff), but their marketing seems kinda wacky to me. It's not a big deal anyway - I'm sure people will figure it out for themselves after a while. :)
 
I guess if you use Meg's exclusively, you use it for what it does, regardless of what the bottle says. I however agree, theres a problem with the descriptions they use to sell their products. I think versatility is one thing, i still have a problem with cleaner/wax ! I guess thats why i dont use Meg's much.......To each their own, weve brought up some very good points and opinions, thats what makes this forum addictive !
 
4DSC said:
One thing I forgot to mention above is that I don't think I've ever brought this up for no reason out of the blue, and only make a point of saying it if I think someone (typically a newbie) may have gotten sucked into Meguiar's definition of "polishing". I only hope I haven't been out of line or anything, and I just didn't want someone to get terminology mixed up or thinking that using some glaze would remove their swirls.
Click to expand...



I wasn't trying to accuse you or anything! :o It's just that it seems like in a lot of threads where polish or glaze is mentioned, inevitably someone will have to interject about Meguiar's. There is plenty to criticize them about, it just needs to be fair criticism.



Hey Patrick, what sort of problems do you have with Cleaner/Wax? Do you mean you don't like it, or you have difficulty with it? I don't particularly care for it, but it is real easy to use, and it does a decent job.



Bretfraz, did you shine up your bicycle when you were 13? You really ought to write them a letter about your poor experience with them. Especially since you've been a customer for so long. If they blow you off, at least you gave them a second chance and you can have no regrets about boycotting their products. Anyone can have a bad day, it's how they try to correct it that oftentimes separates the good companies from the poor ones.
 
Oh, about that definition. I looked up "polish" in the American Heritage dictionary and the definition couldn't be more different. Here it is:



Of or relating to Poland or its people, their language, or culture.



How about that? ;)



Actually, the applicable ones are:



To make smooth and shiny by rubbing or chemical action.

and the noun

A subtance containing chemical agents or abrasive particles and applied to smooth or shine a surface.



I think of polish as being abrasive too, but not just abrasive. It has to be something to bring out a shine. SFP and DACP do this, whereas something like Fine-Cut Cleaner or Compound Power Cleaner or some harsher stuff doesn't bring out a shine. They just clean off the crud. I don't think of them as polishes.
 
Aurora40 said:


Bretfraz, did you shine up your bicycle when you were 13? You really ought to write them a letter about your poor experience with them. Especially since you've been a customer for so long. If they blow you off, at least you gave them a second chance and you can have no regrets about boycotting their products. Anyone can have a bad day, it's how they try to correct it that oftentimes separates the good companies from the poor ones.
Click to expand...



Oh yeah, I used to wax my bikes before I was 13. One of my fave tricks was to use emory cloth and polish the spokes so they'll sparkle. Always used chrome polish on the rims (or maybe it was chrome glaze......or chrome cleaner......heck, I don't know, these darned terms are so confusing.....:p )
 
I have 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze and Swirl Mark Remover.



Is this really a glaze.



At least Meguiars is now putting an abrasive scale on their products now.
 
Aurora...I use the Meg's Cleaner/wax.......On my work truck, but it is the best looking truck in the yard !!

Course I cover it with a liquid carnauba too....I wouldnt dare use that practice on a clients car, nor my own....

Like i read earlier this week on one of these threads, were here because we like to think were a cut above normal, and like to provide a service to our customers, thats second to none.....Meg's just isnt for me, it doesnt meet my standards...that doesnt mean its bad, its just not for me....I will admit I used it in the beginning, and the results were what I was expecting, but I think there are many products that are far superior......And I chose to use those.
 
I personally do not find the terminology used in Meguiar's products confusing (w/ a few exceptions). According to the e-book, a polish in the "strictest" sense is something that improves surface gloss and a cleaner is something that removes surface defects and swirls. The caption goes on to say, "The lines are blurred however as many cleaners provide some polishing action and most polishes have some cleaning ability".



Hence, IMO a "pure" polish does not contain abrasives because its primary purpose is to shine up the paint...not remove surface imperfections (even though you can make a case that these two go hand-in-hand). But as you guys have already noted, most polishes contain a certain amount of abrasives (aka cleaners) and IMO, these products are actually combination polish/cleaners. In fact, there are only a few products out there that are pure polishes (Meg #7, Step 2, Meguiar's Hand Polish) and even fewer products out there that are pure cleaners. I guess my point is that because there are so many abrasive products labeled as "polishes" (which are technicaly cleaner/polishes), it's become commonplace to assume polishes should be abrasive. I think Aurora's on the right track.



Meguiar's Fine, Medium & Heavy cut cleaners are great at removing swirls & surface imperfections, but do not contain that many 'polishing oils'. DACP removes swirls about as well as FCC but it contains a lot more polishing oils. Meguiar's deep crystal system step one (cleaner) is used to remove surface imperfections, step two (pure polish) is used to bring out the shine, and step three (wax) is used to seal in all the prep work you've just done.



Not really sure what to make of 3M's terminology and their love for the term "glaze". I do love the way their products make my car look though.
 
That doesn't have some abrasives. You can feel them if you squirt out a little bit and rub between your fingers.



Personally, 3M "Glazes" seem to be a better polish than Meguiars #7, but Meguiars DACP is incredible. Much better than the Clear Coat Scrub of the consumer line at removing oxidation and small scratches. Looks very good under Blackfire.



3M's cleaner waxes seem to be the best all in one product that I've used.
 
Hrm, could someone tell me whether or not (after washing, before waxing) if using Meg's #7 Show Car Glaze after S100 paint cleanser would be beneficial?
 
Yeah, it would probably enhance the look. #7 has a lot of oils that give a real deep gloss. But, it might depend on what you put over it. If you put AIO or something over it, then you're probably wasting your time. #7 really doesn't do anything permanent to the paint like remove swirls. So you need something that will seal it in to the paint like a carnauba. Anything with a cleaner will remove much or all of it.
 
I would have to say "yes" if you have very light swirl marks, and like Aurora said, it depends on what your covering it up with....What color car is it ?? The cleaner will assist in removing some, but the glaze does a much better job. Im not familiar with Meg's products, so i cant speak on its capabilities. Any need for a SMR ?
 
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