Mastered rotary polishing?

R

RAG

New member
Just when I think I've completely mastered paint polishing with the rotary, I learn something new... or something else stumps me.



Basically, 2 days ago I buffed out a BMW 330i with the three step buff process using the rotary - compound, then polish twice and then yesterday I buffed out a VW Phaeton (luxury car reportedly assembled in the Bently plant)...use the identical process - both were jet black. The BMW paint was very soft and the Phaeton paint was relatively hard (I used the same compound/process on both and after the compounding step the BMW was much more "torn up" with rotary marks). However, the BMW was crazy-easy to finish down halogram-free with the rotary whereas the Phaeton was the most difficult to finish down (without halograms) I've EVER worked on (I eventually broke out the PC and did a quick 1-pass polish job to erase the very slight pattern that remained). Usual logic says soft black paint is much harder to finish without halograms thatn hard black paint...but not in this case - something else in the composition of the paint undoubtably plays a factor.



Any thoughts?
 
I wish I knew what it was---I have had the exact same results when dealing with different hard/soft paint.



As you know--I *always* follow up with the PC. Even though it can indeed reduce the gloss achieved by the rotary on some paints, IMO it is better than risking holograms. My technique is not on the same level as yours though--obviously that changes things.
 
Have you tried using a finishing pad with the rotary? I think you will find it will take out the holograms. Other wise you my have to work the polish longer with the polishing pad with slower passes. What finishing polish are you using?
 
DSVWGLI said:
Have you tried using a finishing pad with the rotary? I think you will find it will take out the holograms. Other wise you my have to work the polish longer with the polishing pad with slower passes. What finishing polish are you using?
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Sheez, your question implies that I may not have been using a finishing pad - I can't imagine otherwise...a firm polishing pad would be impossible to finish down on black paint without some halograms.



And per your advices, I polished a "test" panel several times, experimenting with a few different finishing pads, speed, and pressure...crimeny, I even tried "carrying" the buffer across the paint so there very little pressure...but no matter what I did, there was a very slight pattern left in the paint. And I use PO106FF primarily, but I tried PO85RD to see if it made any difference...it didn't.



I can finish down halogram free on 19 out of 20 black vehicles...this was just the "one" I couldn't...even though the paint was (seemingly) hard.



Thanks.
 
ebpcivicsi said:
I wish I knew what it was---I have had the exact same results when dealing with different hard/soft paint.



As you know--I *always* follow up with the PC. Even though it can indeed reduce the gloss achieved by the rotary on some paints, IMO it is better than risking holograms. My technique is not on the same level as yours though--obviously that changes things.
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Yeah, I just talked to Kevin Farrel (a well known expert) and he has experience the same phenomenon on occasion...even saying he's had trouble with black ceramiclear paint a couple times. In this case, he too reaches for the PC.
 
RAG, I know you have looked into finishing with the rotary a lot, so it's kind of sad news that you weren't able to solve this one :sadpace:



I really agree that the finish left by rotary is just a step above what can be achieved via PC. So whenever possible I will also finish down with the rotary. I haven't used Menzerna myself, but when using something like #82, I use "normal" pressure until the polish has broken down, and then lighten up the pressure for one or two more light passes. I take it you have tried this technique, but just to chime in with an idea :)



When they make cars with such finicky paint, they really should include buffing instructions with the car ;) Also would be interesting to know how they buff them at the factory..
 
Every car is different for the most part. I product combo I use on a black Mercedes, won't work the best on a black Corvette. The combo on the black Mercedes won't work best on a white Mercedes. Unless you try every combo out there, you might never find the easiest and most effective product. Keep searching and when you find it, make a mental note of write it down. Hope this helps.
 
DSVWGLI said:
I guess I shouldn't throw out the PC yet ;) .
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I kept mine even after stepping up to the Cyclo...and wouldn't you know it, I get better results with Poli-Seal via PC than Cyclo! Go figure...
 
It's several steps better than any of the Megs polishes (I have them all) - cuts more and finishes down better...well woth the extra dough. I've actually conducted several tests using the PC on black paint (on a bunch of different cars ranging from Mercedes, to BMW, to Honda, to GM), and found that FPII and PO106FF finish down substantially better (less micro-marring) than any other polish I've tried; Menzerna has also produced the best result via rotary too.



And the "start off aggressive and lighten up approach" does not work as well as one would think (at least not for me)...it's almost like too much of the abrasives are used up in the first few aggressive passes to allow the next couple "gentle" passes to completely erase the buffer swirls...of course it depends on the paint at hand...but if it's "tricky" black paint, I just go gently the whole way.





Zet said:
RAG, I know you have looked into finishing with the rotary a lot, so it's kind of sad news that you weren't able to solve this one :sadpace:



I really agree that the finish left by rotary is just a step above what can be achieved via PC. So whenever possible I will also finish down with the rotary. I haven't used Menzerna myself, but when using something like #82, I use "normal" pressure until the polish has broken down, and then lighten up the pressure for one or two more light passes. I take it you have tried this technique, but just to chime in with an idea :)



When they make cars with such finicky paint, they really should include buffing instructions with the car ;) Also would be interesting to know how they buff them at the factory..
Click to expand...
 
Strange I have done many dark coloured VAG cars with very hard paint and finished with a polishing pad and PO85RD3.02(IP) and PO85RE5.



Even with no preassure and a finishing pad the PO85RD gave buffer trails? Weird.
 
porta said:
Strange I have done many dark coloured VAG cars with very hard paint and finished with a polishing pad and PO85RD3.02(IP) and PO85RE5.



Even with no preassure and a finishing pad the PO85RD gave buffer trails? Weird.
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I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you've experienced the same phenomenon? Or are you saying that you didn't have much luck with Menzerna and a rotary?
 
Sorry for my bad english, but I have only had good experiences with Menzerna and never got any holograms even with RD3.02(intensive polish) and polishing/finishing pad. With rotaty on dark coloured cars with very hard clears like Audi or VW.



IE I have not experienced the same phenomenon.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Menzerna is where my cash goes for polishes. Simply nothing like them available.
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Yup. I don't really use PG or IP any more in favor of HTEC mixed with OP, but the 106FF is absolutely amazing in it's ability to remove more defects than any other finishing polish made, and yet simultaneously finish down niticable better - I give it a cut of "5" whereas most finishing polishes are in the "3" to "4" range. Now if someone could take Menzerna's abrasives and suspend them in a media more like OP, dust would be eliminated and then we'd really have the perfect polish.
 
I had had the same problem at times and had success finishing down with my rotary and grey pad. If that doesn't do I just use the white pad via pc and that usually takes care of it.
 
Ya, I've also moved to HTEC/HC for almost all correction, but still almost always finish with 106FF. I still use the PC to finish sometimes too, especially on hard paint.
 
Yeah, usually the quandry is that soft black paint can be really difficult to finish down on without halograms, but in this case (soft black paint) the PC tends to leave a fair amount of micromarring. In this case (the Phaeton) the paint was clearly hard, so the PC leaft no noticable micromarring (I inspected in both direct sun and under halogens).
 
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