M95: Heavy Filling/Masking Potenital Alert

[Todd@RUPES]

Just thought I would post up...



Black C6 Corvette with heavy, deep swirling. M95 and an LC Yellow Pad reduced swirling by 90-95 percet with some deep rids remaining after two passes. I was very impressed with the finish left behind (too impressed). I wiped the car down with prep-sol x2 and alcohol and saw VERY light returning of some pad marring.



I pulled it out in the sun and let it sit for 2 hours....



The results where horrific as the paint regressed in the sun to the point of looking absolutely terrible. FWIW, Rydawg had warned me of this months ago.



I just read a review on MOL and it scared me as M95 made the paint go from horrid to nice, but unforutnately I think that in 2 months the paint (based on my experience and the poster stating that it is "M80 on steroids") will look terrible. Apparently the OP stated that on a DA the paint looked flawless. Given my experience with this product, that seems to be a reasonable assumption, but I would guess in 2 months time it will look very hacked up.



Take it FWIW, I just don't want to see anybody get burned by thinking they are producing quality results. Remember it is a compound with a cut rating of 12, so please finish it with correct procedure.

 

[Junebug]

I don't get how anybody can do a one step with 95? Maybe 84 but 95? nah, definitely needs a polishing step.

 

[David Fermani]

Remember it is a compound with a cut rating of 12, so please finish it with correct procedure.

:tribe:

X 1000

 

[Holden_C04]

IMO compounds should always be followed up with a polish, even M105. Nevertheless, perhaps M95 requires a different polishing procedure than the one you were using?

 

[Holden_C04]

Was that a flat yellow pad or a ccs yellow pad?

 

[n737nc]

#1-Not all paint reacts the same. So what may not have worked for you, CAN work for someone else.



#2-The results are real. Take it for what it's worth.



Holden, this was used with a new washable Meguiar's yellow pad. Not a CCS pad.



Todd, are you trying to put me down with this post, or Meguiar's? Cause I thought that was looked down upon here at Autopia

 

[n737nc]

I don't get how anybody can do a one step with 95? Maybe 84 but 95? nah, definitely needs a polishing step.

And this wasn't a 1 step process. It was actually 3 steps.....but Todd conveniently forgot to leave that part out.



95 on wool via rotary

95 on black foam via rotary

then 95 on DA





I love it when someone only tells PART of the story to try and make someone else look bad. Good job Todd:2thumbs:

 

[n737nc]

Here are the before after pictures Todd was referring to...

 

[Lumadar]

Just thought I would post up...



Black C6 Corvette with heavy, deep swirling. M95 and an LC Yellow Pad reduced swirling by 90-95 percet with some deep rids remaining after two passes. I was very impressed with the finish left behind (too impressed). I wiped the car down with prep-sol x2 and alcohol and saw VERY light returning of some pad marring.



I pulled it out in the sun and let it sit for 2 hours....



The results where horrific as the paint regressed in the sun to the point of looking absolutely terrible. FWIW, Rydawg had warned me of this months ago.



I just read a review on MOL and it scared me as M95 made the paint go from horrid to nice, but unforutnately I think that in 2 months the paint (based on my experience and the poster stating that it is "M80 on steroids") will look terrible. Apparently the OP stated that on a DA the paint looked flawless. Given my experience with this product, that seems to be a reasonable assumption, but I would guess in 2 months time it will look very hacked up.



Take it FWIW, I just don't want to see anybody get burned by thinking they are producing quality results. Remember it is a compound with a cut rating of 12, so please finish it with correct procedure.

You did a 1 step with a Lake Country Yellow pad? :shocked



I read the thread you were referring to, and I read your thread. The ONLY thing they had in common was #95...every other possible variable was different.



Although I am sure your intentions are good (Giving fair warning) I think you also need to be careful about fairness in your assessment. It struck me as incredibly "apples and oranges" and not even close to fair.



You didn't use the same pads, process, or paint as the other user and yet you are making claims as to what their car will look like? that seems a bit far reaching IMO.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

You did a 1 step with a Lake Country Yellow pad? :shocked



I read the thread you were referring to, and I read your thread. The ONLY thing they had in common was #95...every other possible variable was different.



Apples and oranges anyone?

I think you missed my point. My point is that M95 will can leave the paint looking nice but it is a compound with a cut of 12. Even numerous wipedowns with different products failed to reveal the true nature of the paint. However a couple of hours in the sun quickly showed that M95 can/will mask its defects, and quite heavily.



I'm not saying that this happens all the time, but the potenital is there. I know that it isn't designed as a "filler" nor does it have "fillers" in it, but this is a side effect of the products used as carriers in the polish. Various reasons and factors can cause masking issues, and M95's seems particularly stubborn.



So all I am saying is that M95 has the potential to fill/mask/whatever.

 

[Lumadar]

I think you missed my point. My point is that M95 will can leave the paint looking nice but it is a compound with a cut of 12. Even numerous wipedowns with different products failed to reveal the true nature of the paint. However a couple of hours in the sun quickly showed that M95 can/will mask its defects, and quite heavily.



I'm not saying that this happens all the time, but the potenital is there. I know that it isn't designed as a "filler" nor does it have "fillers" in it, but this is a side effect of the products used as carriers in the polish. Various reasons and factors can cause masking issues, and M95's seems particularly stubborn.



So all I am saying is that M95 has the potential to fill/mask/whatever.

Gotcha. Well, M95 is probably high in oils as it has a very long working time (reportedly) so that *might* be what you experienced.



What boggles me is that you say you did a wipe down and it still looked fine, and only after sitting in the sun did it start to show? That's odd.



Do you have a DA, and Meguiar's pads available? I would be curious to see what your final results would be attempting to recreate the full scenario that you made a reference to and reporting back.



I'm sure we would all like to see that :xyxthumbs

 

[David Fermani]

And this wasn't a 1 step process. It was actually 3 steps.....



95 on wool via rotary

95 on black foam via rotary

then 95 on DA

So, you're advocating using a compound as a multi-process finishing polish? Is this something that Meg's endorces too? I have a hard time believing that this is possible without the help of some great fillers (oils). I think it's wishful thinking to believe an abrasive product can cut that good/quick AND leave the finish that nice. Isn't there a reason Meg's recommends it being used with a rotary (matched with a wool pad I believe) and not a DA? Maybe the DA aids in masking the defects by not breaking down the carrier oils like a rotary does? Again, I'm interested to know what Meg's position on this is?

 

[Todd@RUPES]

#1-Not all paint reacts the same. So what may not have worked for you, CAN work for someone else.



#2-The results are real. Take it for what it's worth.



Holden, this was used with a new washable Meguiar's yellow pad. Not a CCS pad.



Todd, are you trying to put me down with this post, or Meguiar's? Cause I thought that was looked down upon here at Autopia

]#1-Not all paint reacts the same. So what may not have worked for you, CAN work for someone else.

Absolutely

#2-The results are real. Take it for what it's worth.

Nick, please elaborate on what steps you took to ensure this? As I said, even wipedowns with solvents and alcohol did not reveal to true nature of the paint. Only several hours in the sun.



If I didn't have the luxury to pull it out in the sun I would have proceded to meduim polish and final polish. Several weeks or months later the car would have likely had a return of the defects.

Todd, are you trying to put me down with this post, or Meguiar's? Cause I thought that was looked down upon here at Autopia

Nick I wouldn't try to put you down because I don't know you. I didn't mention your name because it wasn't important, because it wasn't about you. It was about the fact somebody used a DA to finish M95, and there is a reason that Meguiars doesn't recommend this. The pictures are impressive, but likely (in my experience testing products over and over) that is not the true result.



As far as putting down Meguiars? I guess every product manufacturer (including ones I use often) must feel I put them down often. I like most of Meguiars professional line products (not their consumer stuff for the most part). I am only sharing my experience.

 

[n737nc]

I'm not advocating anything. Just letting you guys know my position on this. I am not a rep for Meguiar's, nor do I have any affiliation with them other than their products work for me.



Take a look at the pictures, then read your sig...



Nick

 

[n737nc]

You're right Todd, it's a crappy job on that car



This was a multi step process. Rotary/wool, rotary/foam, then DA/foam. Todd, your results turned out the way they did BECAUSE YOU USED THE PRODUCT WRONG!!! And now you come on here and blame the product?



There is a term we use in the airline industry.....Pilot Error!

 

[David Fermani]

I'm not advocating anything. Just letting you guys know my position on this.

If it's your position, why aren't you advocating it? Is there any doubts in your mind that no swirls are being masked?

your results turned out the way they did BECAUSE YOU USED THE PRODUCT WRONG!!!

Technically, didn't you use the product differently than the way it was designed and suggested by Meg's?



According to Mike Phillips:

M95 is NOT recommended for use with a DA Polisher and was primarily designed for use with a rotary buffer

Maybe you invented a new way/process that even the Meg's people weren't even aware of.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

You're right Todd, it's a crappy job on that car



This was a multi step process. Rotary/wool, rotary/foam, then DA/foam. Todd, your results turned out the way they did BECAUSE YOU USED THE PRODUCT WRONG!!! And now you come on here and blame the product?



There is a term we use in the airline industry.....Pilot Error!

Nick I think you still think I am attacking you; I told you that I have nothing against you at all. If it makes you feel better I honestly didn't look at the screen name of the person who posted the thread so I had NO idea it was you.



I understand it was a multistep process, you said the results are real, and I asked you how what steps you took to ensure this? Saying that you just know means nothing, because as you said, every paint is different. So unless you have done that exact process on that exact car before and observed the difference 3 months later or let it sit in the sun for several hours or day on the car previously, how can you know?





I used the product wrong? Please expain how so? Or are you just saying this because you are all upset and feeling like typing in capital letters? Again, please stop making inuendos and suggestions, and firing back at me. I don't know who you are, didn't know it was you that posted the thread, and I am sorry if you feel like I was putting you down.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Maybe you invented a new way/process that even the Meg's people weren't even aware of.

Actually the person I spoke with that does independent testing for Meguiars suggested that Meguiars is VERY aware of the problem, and which is why they (Meguiars) are consistent in suggesting that the product should be used according to specifications.

 

[gmblack3]

Yea Todd you should of used it with a PC. :doh



Why should you listen to Mike Phillips when you have all of these experts to tell you what to do? :secret



Can someone send me some M95 so I can get done with this Benz in a few hours? :think2

 

[gtpaul]

I've found under the lights, M95 with Orange CCS/Flex leaves a bit of marring. I resolve this with 106FF but would never be comfortable with finishing down M95 with any pad.



PowerGloss with Blue Pad anyone?