LSP face-off - Questions

[4u2nvinmtl]

After recently spending some time comparing FK1000-P on my Jeep to my friends KSG’ed Honda this weekend, I got to thinking about doing a long-term (3-4 months) comparison and durability test of some LSP’s this winter on my daily driven Jeep SRT8.

To make things fair I would; wash, clay, polish the panels using my PC (tangerine hydro tech pads), eraser wipe down, and apply the different LSP to be compared to matching panels on each site of the car (i.e. FK1000p front right fender VS KSG front left fender, etc.). All the LSP’s will be applied by hand unless people feel that machine application is more consistent (I personally don’t). I’d post pictures of each step for each panel (maybe videos too). As I know prep is everything, the key for a fair comparison will be good and consistent prep work. I was thinking of starting around late-November or early-December and ending late-February early-March with comparisons done before and after each weekly/bi-weekly wash with photos. My indicator of a failing LSP would be the lack of beading and sheeting after a weekly wash as well as the look and feel of the panel.

With that said, I’d like some feedback and opinions on how you would do a fair/unbiased comparison of LSP’s, what LSP’s you would like to see compared, how many layers would you apply, what panels you’d like them compare them on, what polish you’d use, and most importantly what would be your indicator that durability is falling off, etc.

List of LSP currently owned:

• BLACKFIRE Midnight Sun Paste Wax
• BLACKFIRE Wet Diamond Paint Sealant
• Chemical Guys 50/50 Connoisseur Paste Wax
• Chemical Guys Butter Wax
• Collinite Liquid Insulator Wax 845
• Collinite Super Double Coat Auto Wax
• Duragloss #105 Total Performance Polish
• Duragloss #111 Clear Coat Polish
• Duragloss #601 Polish Bonding Agent
• Finish Kare 1000P Hi-Temp Paste Wax
• Klasse All-In-One
• Klasse Sealant Glaze
• Meguiar’s D156 Synthetic X-press Spray Wax
• Sonus Ion Paint Coating
• Wolfgang Fuzion Paste Wax

Questions:

1. Are you satisfied with my prep process (wash, clay, polish, eraser wipe down, LSP), if not let me know why?
2. What polish would you like to see used to prep the panels; M205, Reflect, or SF4000?
3. What LSP or combination and number of layers would you like to see compared and on which panels (what V.S. what, and where)?
4. Are there any LSP’s I don’t own that you would like to see compared (if so I might pick them up)?
5. What’s your specific indicator that the LSP is failing/falling off?
6. What could I do in addition to maintain a fair and unbiased comparison of LSP's (if anything comes to mind)?

Note: If there’s not much interest I’ll keep it to FK1000-P VS layered KSG for my personal curiosity on fenders and rocker panels.

 

[valleyguy1]

Looking forward to your results.

How many layers of SG are you planning?

And, how fair is it to have multiple coats of SG to only one of FK1000p or Collonite 845?

 

[Accumulator]

4u2nvinmtl- Heh heh, you're gonna experiment with your SRT, huh? OK, to each their own

My advice- figure out a way to equalize start-times for all the different products; the tricky part is when some are layered/topped.

With some sections taking far more abuse than others, *that* will take a bit of consideration too.

 

[boxingfan30]

Looking forward to your results.

How many layers of SG are you planning?

And, how fair is it to have multiple coats of SG to only one of FK1000p or Collonite 845?

He said that we would make the call on all of the things we'd like to see...so tell how many layers you want to see.

 

[boxingfan30]

I would personally say 2 layers just for even coverage. I'd like to see the ksg, fk1000, and the 476S, though 105 was one of my top favorites for a long time, so that might be a good try as well.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

Looking forward to your results.

How many layers of SG are you planning?

And, how fair is it to have multiple coats of SG to only one of FK1000p or Collonite 845?

That's why I was asking for opinions

Typically I would apply 4+ layers of KSG or 3 layers of FK1000P or 1 layer of Collinite 845 to my Jeep. I currently have 3 layers of FK1000P on all panels except for the roof and 1 layer of Collinite 845 on the roof as a personal test. Also, I'd start with KAIO then layer KSG over it as it's a combo LSP just like I would Layer BFWD twice then layer BFMS over it twice for that wet ice over fire look.

Why? Because of a post I saw on another forum (if I recall correctly) that showed the thickness of waxes/sealants applied to a silicone wafer. The post also claimed that most wax/sealants get diminishing returns after the 2nd application with Klasse SG being the exception. I use 3 layers of FK1000P because that's what I currently have and what was recommended to me.

Basically whatever I compare I plan to layer a minimum of twice but you're right I should consider laying the LSP's the same amount of times, but at the same time I'm concerned that it could be counter-productive and lead to diminishing returns with some LSP such as Collinite 845 where I haven't noticed any benefit to layering.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

4u2nvinmtl- Heh heh, you're gonna experiment with your SRT, huh? OK, to each their own

My advice- figure out a way to equalize start-times for all the different products; the tricky part is when some are layered/topped.

With some sections taking far more abuse than others, *that* will take a bit of consideration too.

I already experiment with my SRT and I don't think a LSP experiment is going to hurt.

Very good point about the stat times. I'm thinking of doing two panels at a time I.E. Drivers door vs Passengers door OR I could prep all the panels depending on the number of LSP's and apply them all the same day and layer as cure times permit (Klasse would tend to be the first and last to be completed I guess).

As for your last point about one panel taking more abuse than the others I've already taken this into account by only comparing LSP from the same panel on the opposite side of the Jeep. I.E. passenger door VS drivers door, passenger front fender VS driver front fender, etc. (thus I won't be testing on the bumpers, roof or hood).

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

Current request:

• Two layers of LSP standard (no more no less)
  • KAIO + 2x KSG VS 2x FK1000P (drivers front fender vs passengers front fender, respectively)
  • DG601 + 2x DG105 VS 2x 476S (drivers rear fender vs passengers rear fender , respectively)

Is everyone ok with KAIO topped with two layers of KSG and Duragloss 601 topped with two layers of DG105 compared to other LSP's layered two times (with appropriate cure times taken into account, obviously)?

*If cure times are not specified in the product instructions I will assume 24 hours is sufficient to apply a second layer.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

As I'm new to Duragloss (picked up in my last order) I see some post say to mix the DG601 and DG105 together at one part 601 to four parts 105 or should I just layer? Opinions please...

Now's your chance for me to be your Guinea pig!

 

[valleyguy1]

If you're doing KAIO for the SG, wouldn't you also do that for the FK1000p? That way you're comparing apples to apples. The KAIO will add some additional strength for the SG.

 

[boxingfan30]

Current request:

• Two layers of LSP standard (no more no less)
  • KAIO + 2x KSG VS 2x FK1000P (drivers front fender vs passengers front fender, respectively)
  • DG601 + 2x DG105 VS 2x 476S (drivers rear fender vs passengers rear fender , respectively)

Is everyone ok with KAIO topped with two layers of KSG and Duragloss 601 topped with two layers of DG105 compared to other LSP's layered two times (with appropriate cure times taken into account, obviously)?

*If cure times are not specified in the product instructions I will assume 24 hours is sufficient to apply a second layer.

I'd just follow the instructions for what each LSP says to be fair to each, even if we have found better ways to apply it. Perhaps that would make it less confusing.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

If you're doing KAIO for the SG, wouldn't you also do that for the FK1000p? That way you're comparing apples to apples. The KAIO will add some additional strength for the SG.

Well, FK1000p doesn't come with a twin/AIO and I've always done KAIO before KSG (they came together). I think of it like epoxy imagine if we only compared one of the epoxy tubes without mixing them together vs Elmers white glue, the glue would likely win...

But I'll take this into account and do an extra set of panels with KAIO under and without KAIO for both KSG and FK1000P.

Updated current request:

• Two layers of LSP standard (no more no less)
  • KAIO + 2x KSG VS 2x FK1000P (drivers front fender vs passengers front fender, respectively)
  • DG601 + 2x DG105 VS 2x 476S (drivers rear fender vs passengers rear fender, respectively)
  • 2x KSG VC 2x FK1000p (drivers rocker panel VS passengers rocker panel, respectively)

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

I'd just follow the instructions for what each LSP says to be fair to each, even if we have found better ways to apply it. Perhaps that would make it less confusing.

Yes, I guess I could do more test panels, but some products may say apply additional layers as needed (I'd be layering until the cows come home). I figured 2 layers is fair for all products as almost everything can be layered. I'm also going for winter durability so layering is basically a must.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

I'm thinking of doing another panel set of Ion VS 845. I don't use 845 on my Jeep (save for the roof) but 845 has been performing well on my mothers car and it was done around the same time I did my FK1000P (one week apart).

I was kind hoping I'd like Ion topped with Fuzion so I could get durability and looks.

 

[boxingfan30]

I'm thinking of doing another panel set of Ion VS 845. I don't use 845 on my Jeep (save for the roof) but 845 has been performing well on my mothers car and it was done around the same time I did my FK1000P (one week apart).

I was kind hoping I'd like Ion topped with Fuzion so I could get durability and looks.

I have never used 845, once I heard that ONR actually kills it off fast, vs 476 and 915

 

[boxingfan30]

Yes, I guess I could do more test panels, but some products may say apply additional layers as needed (I'd be layering until the cows come home). I figured 2 layers is fair for all products as almost everything can be layered. I'm also going for winter durability so layering is basically a must.

I used to layer dg105 5 or 6 times, after about 3 it REALLY starts to look like a candied apple. It's very easy to apply and remove, but not terribly slick. I like powerlock because as I've said before, it's one LSP that water flies off of. I have not tried layering the dg and then applying PL over it however.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

I used to layer dg105 5 or 6 times, after about 3 it REALLY starts to look like a candied apple. It's very easy to apply and remove, but not terribly slick. I like powerlock because as I've said before, it's one LSP that water flies off of. I have not tried layering the dg and then applying PL over it however.

Thanks, I'll be sure to add Powerlock to my next order as I'm starting to detail more cars (1 or 2 per week) and I'm hoarding detailing products enthusiastically. I'm still detailing cars just for experience and not for financial gain because I'm honestly worried that doing it for income might take the fun out of it and add an additional layer of complexity with accounting, legalities and so on.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

I'm surprised that there's not more interest in a durability comparison of LSP's (maybe I just don't own the right ones or I lack reliability/credibility) <- feedback appreciated, even if negative

Note: I also plan to compare my polishes as I've never seen a comparison done side by side of SF4000 VS M205 VS Reflect, unfortunately I don't think my silver Jeep SRT8 will show the difference so I'm going to do my wife's friends Black Acura in dire need of a two-step in the coming weeks.

 

[Accumulator]

I'm surprised that there's not more interest in a durability comparison of LSP's...

I'd be interested if only to see how YMMV factors in. Like...I *know* how long certain considered-durable LSPs last for me, but that doesn't mean they'll last that long for others. I sure am curous about how the FK1000P lasts for you (Speaking of YMMV, I'm still scratching my head about how it attracts insects to your SRT!)

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

I'd be interested if only to see how YMMV factors in. Like...I *know* how long certain considered-durable LSPs last for me, but that doesn't mean they'll last that long for others. I sure am curious about how the FK1000P lasts for you (Speaking of YMMV, I'm still scratching my head about how it attracts insects to your SRT!)

The insect infestation seems to fall off after 3-7 days of curing.

I recently reapplied FK1000-P to the hood where it stopped beading after my mechanic touched it (LOL) and the flys came back in droves. It's been about a week and they are no longer interested. Honestly as I only plan to top the FK1000-P off every few months I now consider it a non-issue but it was a total PITA when I was out taking pictures. I was all set up with tripods and lighting and I kept fighting to whisk the flys off the paint. In the end, I did a lot of post processing (Photoshopping) to remove the insects from the pictures. It basically pushed me to improve my post editing photography skills and the photos came out look great regardless (kinda a pro rather than a con)

I'm currently more concerned about durability in the same areas Klasse failed me and I'm already noticing a drop off with the FK1000-P compared to how water behaved the first few weeks. Water doesn't bead or sheet as well on the rocker panels, lower parts of the doors, rear hatch, and oddly the front bumper. As my mechanic clearly had some effect on the LSP (not sure if he spilled something on the paint and tried to clean it) I'm going to disregard this until I can do a more controlled test. I have a hunch my pollutant heavy exhaust and oversized tires play a major role in my LSP degradation.

P.S. when my friend did his KSG application (post-compound) at my place the flys were interested as well just not to the same degree. Looks like the flys like LSP prepped paint or maybe just LSP on silver cars (his is an almost identical shade of silver).

Looks like I need to speak with an Insectologist who happens to be an enthusiast detailer... J/K