Looking at getting first buffer, and could use some purchasing advice...

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06bmw3

New member
I've been thinking about finally purchasing an electric buffer/polisher, but I could use some advice on what to look for. Although I'm a little nervous about damaging the paint due to inexperience, from reading up on the two it sounds like I probably should go for a rotary buffer rather than an orbital polisher (and be careful as I learn).



With the above being said, can anyone give me some suggestions as to what I should look for in a buffer (i.e. specs and features) to ensure that it serves me well? If I can get one inexpensively that will do everything I need, that's great, but I generally prefer to buy quality and buy it once.



Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
 
I'd check out the new DA polisher that HD offers. Rotary polishers are not used very often by very many pro or enthusiast detailers.
 
06bmw3- Welcome to Autopia!



I'd stick with random-orbital ("RO") machines. I can't imagine any reason why you would want/need a rotary; I haven't touched either of mine in ages. If you got a rotary, you'd probably need the RO to do the final polishing anyhow (due to rotary-induced "holograms", which look terrible).



The short-list: 3D/HD, Griot's Garage 6" RO, Meguiar's (eh, I forget their model#). Of those three, I have the Griot's and I'm 100% satisfied with it, to the point that I hardly ever use any of my other polishers (and I have a scad of 'em to choose from).
 
Bought the HD Starter kit and couldn't be happier, has everything you need to dive into the world of buffing.
 
David, sorry, but any volume shop uses rotary buffers for heavy correction and follows up with the dual action type.

I know that a ton of people here think that rotaries are a thing of the past, but that is just not so.

The dual action type is fine for the enthusist, just too time consuming for volume shops on many jobs.

Grumpy
 
Agree with Accumulator and Dan--the new 3D Polisher is powerful and well designed, but you can't beat the GG6 for a weekend detailer--the lifetime warranty protects you from having to buy a new unit if something happens 3 or 4 or 5 years down the road. One of our sponsors, Detailers Domain, has a nice package that includes the polisher, a 5" backing plate and mix and match 10 pads. Then you can pick the polishing products of your choice.



I wouldn't worry about damaging the paint--just started with mine in the past few months and there is a learning curve, but haven't caused any damage. The pads in the DD kit have recessed velcro which adds an additional margin of safety when working near protruding objects. Make sure you watch allot of "How To" videos.
 
Without a doubt, the best way to finish up is with a dual action for that final polish.

That said, what I could never understand when I was teaching the classes at AI is how so many "detailers" would take a rotary buffer to the "whole vehicle" and cut/buff the heck out of it!

Which then required even more time to go over it and polish out all the swirls/holagrams the rotary put in areas that should never have been buffed with the rotary.

We always taught to "diagnois" the finish and indentify those few or many areas on most vehicles that required some "heavy correction" work before they started to wail away on it.

So we taught, do the "bad, heavy corrections" that they identified and then follow up "fine polishing"of those areas and the rest of the vehicle with a dual action.

One of the main concerns that many would want to gain experience and knowledge regarding, were those vehicles which had set on a lot too long, or the owners had not taken care of and had deep acid rain etches, etc.

These folks were under the gun to get the vehicle done, the corrective measures taken in a limited amount of time due to the labor time being allowed.

Please keep in mind as one reads this, we did not have enthusists in the PrepExcellence Classes, but people sent by their dealerships, large detail shops or full time professional detailers who wished to improve their abilities and processes.

"Time is money" and doing un-neccessary processes or work, costs labor time which equals MONEY!

Hope this makes my stance on the use of rotary buffers a bit clearer, and "no, they are not for use by the inexperienced or weak of heart."

Grumpy
 
Ron Ketcham said:
.. "no, they [rotary polishers] are not for use by the inexperienced ...."
Click to expand...

And many/most non-professionals won't ever do enough polishing to really ever graduate from "inexperienced" to "experienced" unless they make this stuff their new hobby.



For the time/effort required to become a rotary-meister, most people could simply (and easily!) just polish a lifetime's worth (and then some) of family/friends' cars with a RO, and do it without ever experiencing the kind of "oops!" that's apparently so common with a rotary.
 
Ron Ketcham said:
David, sorry, but any volume shop uses rotary buffers for heavy correction and follows up with the dual action type.

I know that a ton of people here think that rotaries are a thing of the past, but that is just not so.

The dual action type is fine for the enthusist, just too time consuming for volume shops on many jobs.

Grumpy
Click to expand...



I would venture to say that your are right as far as what the majority of high volume shops are using machine wise. But, on the other hand they have a tendancy to not stay up on the latest in technology. Mostly because the chemical companies and their sales reps that service them aren't in the know either. But, depending on the shop's criteria with respect to workflow and quality, a DA can be and is a valid time saving replacment for a rotary. Especially in a body shop environment.



Most high volume shops that cut paint with a rotary/wool pad/compound will need to follow with 2 refining steps(with a rotary or DA) if they want a finish that will *stay* buffer trail free. If you were to use a DA it can and would eliminate the need for 3 total steps and the chance for swirls to ever be created/come back. Yes, 2 passes with a DA won't level defects as quickly as 2 passes with a rotary/wool, but with a couple more concentrated passes it's just as good. Not to mention no sling.



I did high volume work for 10 years and look back all the time to reflect on how much time I would have saved if I had a high powered DA with today's polishing compounds. And that's the reason why my rotary hasn't been touched for a while as well. Because I usually don't charge my clients by the hour, I want to complete the job as fast as possible all while knowing that the final finish I create is there to stay. If I could do the same level of work faster with a rotary, then I personally would be doing it. This is not to say that the DA is the end of be all of tools. It's just what I personally prefer using.



And one last thing, while Meguiar's was creating their DA Microfiber system, they had several auctions testing it and as a matter of fact are still using it today. I know the bean couters over there wouldn't be using it if it wasn't saving them time and giving them good results.
 
Okay, so you guys don't think getting a DA/orbital instead of a rotary buffer will limit what I can do with tasks like scratch removal, or at least it should not be purchased as my only buffer?



As far as specific tools go, there were a couple of votes for the Griot's 6" but no mention of Porter-Cable. What do you guys like about the GG over the comparable P-C buffer?
 
06bmw3 said:
Okay, so you guys don't think getting a DA/orbital instead of a rotary buffer will limit what I can do with tasks like scratch removal, or at least it should not be purchased as my only buffer?



As far as specific tools go, there were a couple of votes for the Griot's 6" but no mention of Porter-Cable. What do you guys like about the GG over the comparable P-C buffer?
Click to expand...



The Porter Cable is by far the "weakest" DA in the current field of offerings. There isn't really anything wrong with the machine, but if you're only going to purchase one DA, I'd make it something more potent like the Meg's G110v2, GG6, or HD DA. That way you'll have the highest degree of versatility. Forced rotation machines like the Flex 3401 can be nice (though honestly I haven't used mine in quite a long time) but they do come with the drawback of not being able to work into tight spots quite as well as a traditional DA equipped with spot correction pads can.



At the end of the day, it's all a matter of personal preference and developing your own buffing style based on those preferences.
 
If I had to live with just one machine it would be the BO6040 Makita. The forced rotation with the right pad and polish can cut most the scratches you'll see and leave very little swirl and since it also has random orbit, it will do everything any of the other machines will do.



In point of fact, I never use my Makita in other than forced rotation and I don't leave a cobweb, mar or swirl.



Robert
 
06bmw3 said:
Okay, so you guys don't think getting a DA/orbital instead of a rotary buffer will limit what I can do with tasks like scratch removal, or at least it should not be purchased as my only buffer?
Click to expand...



Most of my vehicles have *VERY* hard clear, which BTW I actually *like*, and I've only had to get out the rotary *once* in the last however-many years (that was for something I wouldn't recommend somebody else try anyhow).



So yeah, if it oughta be done at all, you can do it without a rotary. You can take the paint right down to bare metal if you try hard enough ;) But seriously, you can get so aggressive with a random orbital that you gotta watch you don't overthin the clear and precipitate premature failure.



As far as specific tools go, there were a couple of votes for the Griot's 6" but no mention of Porter-Cable. What do you guys like about the GG over the comparable P-C buffer?
Click to expand...



The newest "XP" model PC is a lot better than their older models, but after the way Barry Theal's XP broke (he was lucky he didn't have to get the car repainted) there's no way I'd ever recommend one. And the Griot's and Meguair's polishers have more oomph anyhow, along with better warranties.
 
Time 2 Shine said:
Two questions. Whats your budget (if there is one) and what are your plans when you do get a polisher?
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$100-200 would be fine. I'd rather not get into $300+ for the one machine at this stage unless there's good reason to.



I'm planning to use the polisher primarily on my daily driver 325i. It's in mostly in great shape, but has been the victim of acid rain and bird bombings over the years which I'd like to correct. There are also some scratches and other blemishes which I think I might be able to fix, or at least improve through polishing without getting in over my head. If all goes well, there are a couple other cars in the family which might benefit from a little polishing work too. Beyond that, if it's a DA that I go with, I'd use it for applying wax also.
 
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