Lets talk diesel trucks

Im a big fan of the older Ford trucks with the 7.3 engine. If your looking to buy, most people dont want to go that old, but IMO they are the best trucks on the road. I prefer the older diesels over the post 08 trucks with emissions. In fact, clean, rust free, stock Fords with the 7.3 can sell as much as Fords with the 6.4 diesel that was put in 2008-2010. Pretty well any clean, pre emssion diesel will sell for crazy money now days. The 6.0 Ford doesn't sell quite as hot because of there known problems.

Dodge had the 5.9 diesel for a number of years. Great engine, but the trucks are not the same quality as Ford or GM. Dodge automatic transmissions are known for being junk also.

Chevy trucks with the Duramax are pretty good. The biggest problem with those would be injectors, and they can be really expensive to properly fix. They also probably drive the nicest... A more soft ride, which some prefer, but me when I drive a truck, I want it to feel like a truck.

If your looking to buy an older truck, the biggest thing you want to check for is rust. NEVER buy a truck without looking underneath. That is the biggest thing that gets covered up by dealers these days. They love to spray black goop on the underside to (try) cover it up. Most people dont look under trucks before they buy them, and if they do, they dont know what they are looking at.
 
I owned a '03.5 F250 6.0. before my Saleen. I bought it with around 80,000 miles on it and sold it around 160,000. It was the biggest piece of junk and I will never own another. The 6.0 is notorious for EGR problems, heads lifting, injector issues, and a number of other things. It looked good and was extremely quick for a large truck. I loved the sound of the turbo spool too. But I will never own another one unless it is a 90's model 7.3 single cab.
 
We run large diesel mack trucks and have a 2000 gallon fuel tank on site, I had the option of getting a diesel work truck for my self and opted for Gasser. I would say unless you need the massive pulling power of a diesel go gas. Diesel has is place in large (Class 6-7-8...) trucks and for towing trailers for landscapers or contractors with bob cats small excavators and other stuff... in 3500's even towing large campers or boats if you can afford it. But they are expensive as hell to fix engine+after treatment even just ordinary parts are $$$$$ as it is built to handle the massive loads these new 3500 trucks are spec'ed for, seems like every thing starts at a grand and most are 3-5K. Even the new smaller diesel trucks the Colorado or Dodge 1500 the repairs for the engine and after treatment systems are just to expensive for me rather the ease of gas.
 
Throwback to 2009. First picture was right after the lift and new tires. Second pic was the following weekend in Biloxi, MS. :rockon

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trashmanssd said:
We run large diesel mack trucks and have a 2000 gallon fuel tank on site, I had the option of getting a diesel work truck for my self and opted for Gasser. I would say unless you need the massive pulling power of a diesel go gas. Diesel has is place in large (Class 6-7-8...) trucks and for towing trailers for landscapers or contractors with bob cats small excavators and other stuff... in 3500's even towing large campers or boats if you can afford it. But they are expensive as hell to fix engine+after treatment even just ordinary parts are $$$$$ as it is built to handle the massive loads these new 3500 trucks are spec'ed for, seems like every thing starts at a grand and most are 3-5K. Even the new smaller diesel trucks the Colorado or Dodge 1500 the repairs for the engine and after treatment systems are just to expensive for me rather the ease of gas.
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Expensive for sure. That is the main reason I don't have another one. I just can't afford a $1000 repair every time something goes wrong.
 
I'm in the early stages of researching some trucks. I miss having mine and have been thinking about selling my GTO and getting back into a truck. My budget puts me in about a mid 2000's model. We're looking at possibly getting a travel trailer sometime in the next couple of years, so I've been looking at 3/4 ton trucks....I've always loved the look of the F-250's.

The 5.4 v8 is a nice motor (we have an expedition with that motor), but I gotta think it'd be a bit of a dog for a truck like that. Finding a v10 model in the truck configuration I want appears as though it's going to be quite difficult. And then there's the notorious 6.0......from what I gather it's a complete crap shoot what your gonna get stock, but after a few mods it can be a good motor.

I'm open to a GM or Dodge, but depending on where you're reading it seems like their diesels in thay year range have their own issues that don't make them that much better.
 
The 7.3 is the best motor ever made, and the 6.0 and 6.4 is possibly the worst. My pals 6.7 blew the motor last year on his 2012 and they had to remove the cab to do the motor. Probably a 20k engine replacement. No thanks.

The cummins is the best diesel on the road right now with the aisn tranny its a beast.

I purchased a new 3500 but went gas. The oil pans still rots out, and all repairs are 3x more then a gasser. There is no savings in the diesel anymore, thanks Obama.
 
House of Wax said:
I'm in the early stages of researching some trucks. I miss having mine and have been thinking about selling my GTO and getting back into a truck. My budget puts me in about a mid 2000's model. We're looking at possibly getting a travel trailer sometime in the next couple of years, so I've been looking at 3/4 ton trucks....I've always loved the look of the F-250's.

The 5.4 v8 is a nice motor (we have an expedition with that motor), but I gotta think it'd be a bit of a dog for a truck like that. Finding a v10 model in the truck configuration I want appears as though it's going to be quite difficult. And then there's the notorious 6.0......from what I gather it's a complete crap shoot what your gonna get stock, but after a few mods it can be a good motor.

I'm open to a GM or Dodge, but depending on where you're reading it seems like their diesels in thay year range have their own issues that don't make them that much better.
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I have an 03 plow truck with a 5.4 and its a slow piece of crap. Wouldnt mind but it also gets terrible gas mileage. If you can find a 6.0 that has been bulletproofed it will be a good truck, but only if it has been specifically bulletproofed.
 
That doesn't surprise me about your 03. I'm kinda surprised they even offered that motor in a 3/4 ton.

Seems like everyone's diesel offerings after about 02 need some money thrown at them to make them reliable from what I'm reading. Only drawback to the 7.3 is the rest of the truck around it is getting pretty old....I'll keep my eyes peeled though.

Thanks for the input guys, keel it coming
 
I had a 2003 Dodge with the 5.9 It was an amazing motor and fun to play with. As mentioned the tyranny was a weak link until I replaced it with a Goerend Brothers unit. Was cheaper than a replacement from Dodge but with a no questions asked 150k warranty. Much improved mileage and a ton of fun to drive. I would try to avoid the newer EGR models.
 
Xxboostin- beautiful looking truck. Doesnt surprise me that you had a lot of problems with it. 2003 and 2004 were the worst years for the 6.0. Although I dont think the later years were to much better.

house of wax. You could also look for a 06-07 Chevy or GMC with what they call the LBZ Duramax. Thats a good truck, good engine that runs real good, and good trans. Just expect to pay a lot for a truck like this because everyone else wants those to. The only problem with a truck like that could be the injectors. I assume a diesel mechanic could hook up to the computer and see if everything looks good. The other way to tell if the injectors are bad is hook the truck to a heavy trailer. It will go into limp mode if they are not good. Injectors will run you approximately $3-5k for these trucks.

if you decide to go with a 6.0, be careful when guys say they are bulletproofed. You dont know what for guy tore the engine apart. Some random guy that doesnt really know what he is doing? I guess request receipts, although you dont know if the mechanic really knew what he was doing either.

if you have some diesel truck mechanics in your area, I would talk to them. See what they recommend, and maybe they have connections for trucks for sale. Or maybe they can go with you if you go to look at trucks? They should know where the problems are, and might have equipment to hook up to the vehicle's computer
 
Yeah the GM trucks seem to be a bit out of my price range. I suspect I can find the 250's in my budget due to the reputation that the 6.0 carries.

Only other thought is to find a 250 that doesn't have an extensive history (by checking oasis reports, autocheck, etc....) and starting saving/planning for an EGR delete and bulletproof oil cooler/filter upgrade. Seems like once these are done and regular maintenance is kept up on, they're pretty good motors
 
My local diesel mechanic says once he works on the 6.0's they dont come back. So maybe he got them figured out? Like I said, check around for diesel mechanics in your area, maybe one specializes in the 6.0's. He would know what year to buy, know what to look for, etc. Or maybe they will steer you away from the 6.0 and more towards the 6.4. ( I dont know why). And like I said earlier, if your buying a truck that old, make sure you check for rust, in fact, I would highly consider getting the truck out of the area.
 
Well, after being gone for a while I come back and find this... I can talk diesels all day.

As a side note: I am a fleet diesel mechanic for a freight company and work on mostly Detroit Diesels (60 series and the DD13 mostly), but also Cummins, Volvo, and the few Cat engines left in the fleet. I was also a mechanic in the military which means I worked on the 6.2L, 6.5L, a lot of Caterpillars, Detroits, and occasionally a Mercedes diesel. I did own a early 2004 Duramax, and a 2005 Duramax and currently own a 2005 Duramax and a 1997 Powerstroke. Help my brother all the time on his '07 Duramax too.

I can't seem to find your price range so, a quick overview of the popular engines out there from the 90's until now.

Chevy
6.2L/6.5L (1982-2000): Good engines once a few design flaws are fixed (relatively cheap) but you're never going to see a lot of power.
Duramax LB7 (2001-2004.5): Great engine with one major flaw. This is the Duramax that gave the injectors their stigma. You'll be putting new injectors in every 100,000-200,000 miles.
Duramax LLY (2004.5-2005): The beginnings of emissions equipment for GM. The LLY introduced the EGR system but also brought the VVT. The VVT allows the computer to more easily command more or less boost. Also creates a lot more of an turbo whistle than the previous fixed vane turbo. Valve covers were also changed to allow easier access to the injectors, but that doesn't seem to be as much of a concern.
Duramax LLY/LBZ (Late '05-'07 Classic): Strengthened internal components and upgraded other features that most drivers will never notice.
Duramax LMM/LML/LGH/LMK (Late 2007+): My honest opinion, avoid them. If you're willing to pay for maintenance on emissions, they're great. I, however, am not.

A significant note about GM. They used a 5 speed Allison through model year 2005. They began using a 6-speed in 2006. If you test drive one and want to make sure it is a 6-speed it's pretty easy to tell. Take it for a test drive, the 5-speed will be at almost 2,000RPM at highway speeds (65MPH) whereas the 6-speed will hover around 1,500RPM. This makes a 3-4MPG difference in fuel economy. If you're lucky you can find one with the ZF6 tranmission, but good luck. I had one and lost it. Also of note, the transfer cases on the 4WD units are flawed, but it's not a major fix if you are mechanically able. (By fix I mean make sure it doesn't become a problem)

Ford
7.3IDI (1988-1994): The 7.3 IDI was straight from International and is an amazing engine. Some are turbocharged, some are not. None have intercoolers. They will last practically forever but, again, a weaker engine compared to newer diesels.
7.3L Powerstroke (1995-1997): Again, a great engine that will run forever. A rather weak engine for it's popularity, but still has enough power from the factory. There are a few design flaws and most are acceptable. However, if you choose a OBS 7.3, watch the fuel bowl. They can be resealed relatively cheap but full replacement is pretty pricey. You can upgrade to a full electronic fuel system for anywhere from a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars.
7.3L Powerstroke (1999-2003): Same as before with some great additions. Ford ditched the mechanical fuel system which allows for more power, smoother idle, and quicker starts and also eliminates that pesky fuel bowl. They also began using intercoolers which reduce boost levels but greatly improve performance. Another major improvement is the injector change which allows for greater performance.
6.0 Powerstroke (2003-2007): Contrary to popular belief, a great engine that produces good power and has potential for even more. The injectors on the 6.0 seems to be a hit or miss whether they last but the major flaw is the overheating issue. "Bulletproofing" a 6.0 removes the EGR cooler. The EGR coolers are prone to clogging, once they clog they overheat and causes the coolant to boil off. Without regular checking of your fluid levels, this can lead to the engine overheating.
6.4L Powerstroke (2007-2010): I would avoid the 6.4L. It's a decent engine but, due to the introduction of emissions, is not acceptable. Ford chose to use a post combustion injection to burn the soot deposits out of the DPF. This can (and has in multiple cases) lead to flooding your crankcase with fuel.
6.7L Powerstroke (2011-Current): Nothing bad to say except, again, emissions.

I won't comment on the Ford transmissions since I don't know a whole lot about what they used after 2003. The E4OD before that is an acceptable tranny but it was ultimately designed for a gas engine. It has it's flaws and doesn't last forever, but what automatic does? I would also try to avoid the TTB front axles in '97 and earlier 3/4 tons. They're a good axle, but too much maintenance. Also, old body styles will give you one rough ride. Let's just leave that at Ford got some of their suspension backwards.


I've got to get off to work right now so we'll have to leave Dodge off for the moment. If anyone found this helpful I will gladly post up my simplified version for Dodge later on today or in the AM. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If I can't find you the answer I can make an attempt at finding it for you, I know a few people that are great at the Cummins (never owned one because of body style/transmission) and a few others that are 10x better with the others than I am.

EDIT: It was pointed out to me that I forgot to mention something about the 7.3L Power Stroke. I am here to fix that. All 7.3L Powerstrokes (1995-2003) can leave you stranded if the Camshaft Position Sensor (CPS) fails. They really don't give you a warning that they're about to fail either, they just do. That means you could go out to start the truck to head to work for the day and have a no-start condition. The good news about them is, they don't fail frequently and they're extremely easy to replace. They run around $10.00 and requires one 10MM socket/ratchet or wrench. It's right on the front of the engine and easy to get to from underneath. You take one bolt out, unplug the sensor, and reverse for the install.
 
RDKC said:
Well, after being gone for a while I come back and find this... I can talk diesels all day.

As a side note: I am a fleet diesel mechanic for a freight company and work on mostly Detroit Diesels (60 series and the DD13 mostly), but also Cummins, Volvo, and the few Cat engines left in the fleet. I was also a mechanic in the military which means I worked on the 6.2L, 6.5L, a lot of Caterpillars, Detroits, and occasionally a Mercedes diesel. I did own a early 2004 Duramax, and a 2005 Duramax and currently own a 2005 Duramax and a 1997 Powerstroke. Help my brother all the time on his '07 Duramax too.

I can't seem to find your price range so, a quick overview of the popular engines out there from the 90's until now.

Chevy
6.2L/6.5L (1982-2000): Good engines once a few design flaws are fixed (relatively cheap) but you're never going to see a lot of power.
Duramax LB7 (2001-2004.5): Great engine with one major flaw. This is the Duramax that gave the injectors their stigma. You'll be putting new injectors in every 100,000-200,000 miles.
Duramax LLY (2004.5-2005): The beginnings of emissions equipment for GM. The LLY introduced the EGR system but also brought the VVT. The VVT allows the computer to more easily command more or less boost. Also creates a lot more of an turbo whistle than the previous fixed vane turbo. Valve covers were also changed to allow easier access to the injectors, but that doesn't seem to be as much of a concern.
Duramax LLY/LBZ (Late '05-'07 Classic): Strengthened internal components and upgraded other features that most drivers will never notice.
Duramax LMM/LML/LGH/LMK (Late 2007+): My honest opinion, avoid them. If you're willing to pay for maintenance on emissions, they're great. I, however, am not.

A significant note about GM. They used a 5 speed Allison through model year 2005. They began using a 6-speed in 2006. If you test drive one and want to make sure it is a 6-speed it's pretty easy to tell. Take it for a test drive, the 5-speed will be at almost 2,000RPM at highway speeds (65MPH) whereas the 6-speed will hover around 1,500RPM. This makes a 3-4MPG difference in fuel economy. If you're lucky you can find one with the ZF6 tranmission, but good luck. I had one and lost it. Also of note, the transfer cases on the 4WD units are flawed, but it's not a major fix if you are mechanically able. (By fix I mean make sure it doesn't become a problem)

Ford
7.3IDI (1988-1994): The 7.3 IDI was straight from International and is an amazing engine. Some are turbocharged, some are not. None have intercoolers. They will last practically forever but, again, a weaker engine compared to newer diesels.
7.3L Powerstroke (1995-1997): Again, a great engine that will run forever. A rather weak engine for it's popularity, but still has enough power from the factory. There are a few design flaws and most are acceptable. However, if you choose a OBS 7.3, watch the fuel bowl. They can be resealed relatively cheap but full replacement is pretty pricey. You can upgrade to a full electronic fuel system for anywhere from a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars.
7.3L Powerstroke (1999-2003): Same as before with some great additions. Ford ditched the mechanical fuel system which allows for more power, smoother idle, and quicker starts and also eliminates that pesky fuel bowl. They also began using intercoolers which reduce boost levels but greatly improve performance. Another major improvement is the injector change which allows for greater performance.
6.0 Powerstroke (2003-2007): Contrary to popular belief, a great engine that produces good power and has potential for even more. The injectors on the 6.0 seems to be a hit or miss whether they last but the major flaw is the overheating issue. "Bulletproofing" a 6.0 removes the EGR cooler. The EGR coolers are prone to clogging, once they clog they overheat and causes the coolant to boil off. Without regular checking of your fluid levels, this can lead to the engine overheating.
6.4L Powerstroke (2007-2010): I would avoid the 6.4L. It's a decent engine but, due to the introduction of emissions, is not acceptable. Ford chose to use a post combustion injection to burn the soot deposits out of the DPF. This can (and has in multiple cases) lead to flooding your crankcase with fuel.
6.7L Powerstroke (2011-Current): Nothing bad to say except, again, emissions.

I won't comment on the Ford transmissions since I don't know a whole lot about what they used after 2003. The E4OD before that is an acceptable tranny but it was ultimately designed for a gas engine. It has it's flaws and doesn't last forever, but what automatic does? I would also try to avoid the TTB front axles in '97 and earlier 3/4 tons. They're a good axle, but too much maintenance. Also, old body styles will give you one rough ride. Let's just leave that at Ford got some of their suspension backwards.


I've got to get off to work right now so we'll have to leave Dodge off for the moment. If anyone found this helpful I will gladly post up my simplified version for Dodge later on today or in the AM. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If I can't find you the answer I can make an attempt at finding it for you, I know a few people that are great at the Cummins (never owned one because of body style/transmission) and a few others that are 10x better with the others than I am.
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Awesome read, thanks for the input. Budget I'm looking at is somewhere around 12-15k.

From what I've been reading, part of the appeal with the 03+ Fords despite some engine issues is the transmission is supposedly pretty stout.
 
Good post RDKC. I have a 97 with the TTB, dont like it, but dont really want to go thru the trouble of putting a straight axle in.

and you say GM has always paired the Duramax with the Allison? I didnt know what trans the early ones had, or when they started with the Allison
 
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