Leather Question BMW Nappa

[Swanicyouth]

There seems to be a lot of guys on here that know a lot about leather. My

Question is regarding my low mileage 2008 BMW M Roadster with 35k miles with Black Nappa Leather. There is some wear on the left drivers bolster(see pic)

I think i figure out what is causing this and I would like to fix it. The rest of the leather is in very good shape. I've done some research and compared some products on line. Since the damage is light, my concern is I don't want to make

It worse by dyeing to a shade of black that won't match.



Just for the heck of it, I tried some black leather shoe polish and some Harley Davison Black Leather Polish. Both products are "too black". The shoe polish is also too glossy. The seats are black, but are "satin sheen" and look slightly anthracite.



These are my current ideas:



1) I contacted Swissvax USA to see if the could recommend an exact color of there Leather Healer. They gave me 2 choices for BMW black. one they said looks more anthracite. So, I'm tempted to go with that product. However, there are caveats. First of all, it's expensive. The Leather Healer is $90. They recommend their leather sealant and cleaner. Another hundred bucks at least. The leather pad you need o prep is another 10 bucks. Now we are talking over $200 plus shipping. Then they sell another solution to add gloss or matte for around $50. Now we are talking over $250.00 plus shipping, which I would be glad to pay if I knew it was going to be a correct match. For that I could pay a profession to touch up the bolster. Either way there is no guarantee it will

look good either way. If I knew of a person who did good work I would just pay them to fix it. Unfortunately I don't. I have only found 2 write ups on the Swissvax Leather Healer. Both say Swissvax gave th the exact color. All I see on there website is like 6 different shades of black. Again, when I contacted them via email they didn't seem too sure.



2 my second idea was to use Furniture Clinics Scuff repair kit. This is a much cheaper option and comes from the UK. I have read good things about it. The reason I choosing this over other USA available kits is because it comes with a gloss and a matte solution. Also, I heard, some of the USA dyes look like paint.



So, any advice, suggestions, or experience with any of these kit or any input I'd greatly appreciated.

 

[togwt]

There are a few decent leather pigmentation suppliers- Swisswax, Leatherequi, Furnture Clinic, etc



SURFLEX (Color-Plus) – a flexible surface pigment (colorant) for leather and vinyl; unlike lacquer-base preparations, which close the pores and shorten the life of leather, this product is water-based and leaves the pores of the leather finish open. This enables you to hydrate (transpiration and evaporation of moisture) your leather to keep it soft and supple after you have re-colored it.



Leather Magic Leather Recoloring Kit - restores and renews the colour of finished and Micro Pigment (Semi-Aniline) leather. This kit allows you to recolor worn and faded leather easily. The pigmentation (colour) provided is a water- based material that is designed to be highly compatible with leather. The finish provided will be long lasting and will give you many years of service. Available in custom colours; provide them with the colour information and they will custom match it for you.







“Leather Pigmentation (Colour) Renovation” - http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopi...ather-restoration-renovation.html#post1479003



I hope the information in this article is of some help to you. If you have any further questions please let me know

 

[Swanicyouth]

Thank you for all the great advice. Last night I ordered the Furniture Clinics scuff repair kit, their hard filler in black, and their recommended sand paper. I went with this kit for a few reasons:



1. Price. You only get a small amount and I only need a small amount. Everything with shipping from the UK was under $70. I didn't want to pay hundreds for Swissvax



2. Kit comes with tint to lighten color, others don't.



3. Kit comes with matte and gloss solution others don't.



4. I read some good reviews on this product compared to others. I've read others look like paint.



5. The filler comes in black. The seats are black. Others only offer white fillet.



Hopefully I can get the black color tinted right. It's not jet black, it's more of an anthracite.

 

[Roger Koh]

There seems to be a lot of guys on here that know a lot about leather. My

Question is regarding my low mileage 2008 BMW M Roadster with 35k miles with Black Nappa Leather. There is some wear on the left drivers bolster(see pic)

I think i figure out what is causing this and I would like to fix it. The rest of the leather is in very good shape. I've done some research and compared some products on line. Since the damage is light, my concern is I don't want to make

It worse by dyeing to a shade of black that won't match.



Just for the heck of it, I tried some black leather shoe polish and some Harley Davison Black Leather Polish. Both products are "too black". The shoe polish is also too glossy. The seats are black, but are "satin sheen" and look slightly anthracite.



These are my current ideas:



1) I contacted Swissvax USA to see if the could recommend an exact color of there Leather Healer. They gave me 2 choices for BMW black. one they said looks more anthracite. So, I'm tempted to go with that product. However, there are caveats. First of all, it's expensive. The Leather Healer is $90. They recommend their leather sealant and cleaner. Another hundred bucks at least. The leather pad you need o prep is another 10 bucks. Now we are talking over $200 plus shipping. Then they sell another solution to add gloss or matte for around $50. Now we are talking over $250.00 plus shipping, which I would be glad to pay if I knew it was going to be a correct match. For that I could pay a profession to touch up the bolster. Either way there is no guarantee it will

look good either way. If I knew of a person who did good work I would just pay them to fix it. Unfortunately I don't. I have only found 2 write ups on the Swissvax Leather Healer. Both say Swissvax gave th the exact color. All I see on there website is like 6 different shades of black. Again, when I contacted them via email they didn't seem too sure.



2 my second idea was to use Furniture Clinics Scuff repair kit. This is a much cheaper option and comes from the UK. I have read good things about it. The reason I choosing this over other USA available kits is because it comes with a gloss and a matte solution. Also, I heard, some of the USA dyes look like paint.



So, any advice, suggestions, or experience with any of these kit or any input I'd greatly appreciated.

How long would you like to keep after refinishing?



Roger Koh

[email protected]

 

[Swanicyouth]

How long? A long time. I'm just hoping to touch it up a little better. I'm open to suggestions. The rest of the seat is fine. This is from the seat belt getting jambed behind my back and the seat while driving, as I dont always wear it. Everone one of those little lighter notches is from when the metal seat belt end was jambed between my back and the seat. Now I dont do that. I'm hoping to follow the Furniture Clinics method, scuff down the area, fill with black crack filler, scuff flat, add light layers of coulorant, re-color if too dark with lighter tinted dye, and then adjust gloss or matte. I'm hoping not to remove too much of the factory dye as the only damage is on the area shown on the whole seat

 

[Roger Koh]

How long? A long time. I'm just hoping to touch it up a little better. I'm open to suggestions. The rest of the seat is fine. This is from the seat belt getting jambed behind my back and the seat while driving, as I dont always wear it. Everone one of those little lighter notches is from when the metal seat belt end was jambed between my back and the seat. Now I dont do that. I'm hoping to follow the Furniture Clinics method, scuff down the area, fill with black crack filler, scuff flat, add light layers of coulorant, re-color if too dark with lighter tinted dye, and then adjust gloss or matte. I'm hoping not to remove too much of the factory dye as the only damage is on the area shown on the whole seat

You have to rethink of your approach to your problem if you want the leather to look good for a long time.



Could you show some better picture why you want to use the filler?



Please show the stitching holes as well.



A close-up picture of the creases too.



I will then able to identify and suggest alternative approach to your problem.





Roger Koh

[email protected]

 

[Swanicyouth]

You have to rethink of your approach to your problem if you want the leather to look good for a long time.



Could you show some better picture why you want to use the filler?



Please show the stitching holes as well.



A close-up picture of the creases too.



I will then able to identify and suggest alternative approach to your problem.





Roger Koh

[email protected]

Thanks for your help. I was modeling my repair approach from the YouTube video from Furniture Clinic on how to fix leather scuffs using their scuff repair kit and their filler product. So, I bought everything used in the repair video. It looks like their scuff is worse than mine, so I'm not even sure if I need the filler. I just picked it up because it's coming from the UK and I wanted everything I could possibly need.



Here is the video:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8lPMxEe4A&feature=youtube_gdata_player



And here are some other pictures

The "damage" looks worse in the pictures than it does in person. I really just want to touch it up and not refinish the whole leather panel, just like the guy did in the FC video. FC also sells an air brush kit and colorant to refinish a whole panel. I thought I would try the touch up method first since I have zero experience in this and don't really want to sand down a whole leather panel on my seat. But, again, I'm just going by the video and FC's good reputation.



I bought the kit in the video with the black colorant, the recommended sand paper, and the same filler they use in the video (just in the color black). I plan on mimicking the guy's work in the video. However, I suspect the black in the kit may be "too black", so I plan on trying to color match it the best I can on a separate piece of spare black leather and practicing this whole process on that piece until I get a good result and the color correct. The BMW "Black Nappa" is not "jet black", but looks anthracite to me. That was one of my main reasons with going with this kit, was the ability to lighten or tint the leather lighter. Other companies just offer black, and I suspect it would be "show polish" or "jet" black.



Any advice is appreciated! Thanks.

 

[Roger Koh]

[/QUOTE]



So you are doing on this small scuff area only, and not the entire panel?

 

[Swanicyouth]

Yes, just that part has the scuff. It's from the seatbelt getting stuck behind my back there, the metal part. I didn't realize it was happening. That is why there is a scuff there, but the rest of the seat looks fine. That little part has accelerated wear. The rest of the seat has no scuffs, etc...

 

[Roger Koh]

Yes, just that part has the scuff. It's from the seatbelt getting stuck behind my back there, the metal part. I didn't realize it was happening. That is why there is a scuff there, but the rest of the seat looks fine. That little part has accelerated wear. The rest of the seat has no scuffs, etc...

See the above picture circle in red, you will see that the leather is over-stretched and out of form.



The damage area is a structure problem you need to bring it back to shape, before you do the color refinishing.



Recommended structure repair process:



1] Hydrate it with a leather-safe hydrator to relax and return the leather to shape, thereafter fatliquor replenish to return to suppleness and strength when dry.



2] When dry thereafter, a leather impregnator is recommended to further tighten and strengthen the leather structure.





Recommended process for the refinishing:



1] An adhesion promoter is to ensure the colorcoat will stay strong without peeling or cracking.



2] Color application.



3] Topcoat application (with optional 5% crosslinker)



4] Rub-resistant Protection with a buttery feel – to reduce friction rubs.





Note:



Fillers is never recommended in this situation – it cause unnecessary loading to the leather structure and is prone to cracking.

The objective of such repair is to restore a strong leather structure that will keep in shape with very fine light coating (its too heavy when you try to sponge it - recommended to use fine air brushing), so that the leather does not look too plastiky.

The thicker the color coating the more ugly it looks.

Another tips for topcoat is having a very fine coating that is tough against abrasion by adding a crosslinker to the mix usually not more than 5%.



So if you want your leather to look good and last, don’t you?



Don't mess up and don't think of doing this problem too often - do it right the first time!



Problems like this always think thrice and do it once for keep!





One more note:



Never sand direct onto the leather, the more you sand the rougher the surface becomes; it is only use on the finishes.

A leather impregnator is used instead to smoothen and strengthen leather grains.





In addition, if you are going to mimic what you see, then you may have to go beyond what you did not see, in order to produce the result that you see!





Roger Koh

[email protected]

 

[Swanicyouth]

See the above picture circle in red, you will see that the leather is over-stretched and out of form.



The damage area is a structure problem you need to bring it back to shape, before you do the color refinishing.



Recommended structure repair process:



1] Hydrate it with a leather-safe hydrator to relax and return the leather to shape, thereafter fatliquor replenish to return to suppleness and strength when dry.



2] When dry thereafter, a leather impregnator is recommended to further tighten and strengthen the leather structure.



I'm not sure what an "impregnator" or "hydrator" are. I have several leather conditioners and LM Vital. Is "hydrating" something I can do with those, if not, what should I get?





Recommended process for the refinishing:



1] An adhesion promoter is to ensure the colorcoat will stay strong without peeling or cracking.



I think FC include this with their re-coloring kits, but not with the touch-up kits.



2] Color application.



got that



3] Topcoat application (with optional 5% crosslinker)



The matte or gloss is their topcoat



4] Rub-resistant Protection with a buttery feel – to reduce friction rubs.



For protection I'll be using G Techniq L1 or Ultima Interior Guard +. I also had several other "leather conditions", but from what I read these dont do much on coated leather. I have Prima Nourish, BMW Leather Lotion, LM Vital, PB Leather Stuff, and Lexol Leather Conditioner.



Note:



Fillers is never recommended in this situation – it cause unnecessary loading to the leather structure and is prone to cracking.

The objective of such repair is to restore a strong leather structure that will keep in shape with very fine light coating (its too heavy when you try to sponge it - recommended to use fine air brushing), so that the leather does not look too plastik



I can skip the filler. Just bought it in case. Also, I can probably get a small air brush set-up at a local Arts & Crafts store. Or, could I use a refillable paint sprayer where you add the paint to the bottle and the propellant is separate?



This stuff:

The thicker the color coating the more ugly it looks.

Another tips for topcoat is having a very fine coating that is tough against abrasion by adding a crosslinker to the mix usually not more than 5%.



I can propable get a small air brush kit locally. I think FC sells their dye as ready to go and they don't reccomend adding stuff to it (crosslinker)... Maybe it's in there already?



So if you want your leather to look good and last, don’t you?



Don't mess up and don't think of doing this problem too often - do it right the first time!



Problems like this always think thrice and do it once for keep!





One more note:



Never sand direct onto the leather, the more you sand the rougher the surface becomes; it is only use on the finishes.

A leather impregnator is used instead to smoothen and strengthen leather grains.



I can skip the sanding.





In addition, if you are going to mimic what you see, then you may have to go beyond what you did not see, in order to produce the result that you see!



Are you saying Furniture Clinic's video is misleading? Could you clarify?



Roger Koh

[email protected][/QUOTE]



Thanks again!

 

[Roger Koh]

I'm not sure what an "impregnator" or "hydrator" are. I have several leather conditioners and LM Vital. Is "hydrating" something I can do with those, if not, what should I get?



In hydrating we are talking about leather-safe pH specific products and not just water as often mention in this forum; non leather-safe hydration equals “water damages” with stiffness and shrinkage as experience by this thread: http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/142248-um-oops-i-made-my-leather-seats-worse.html



You will need a product that is pH specific from 3 to 5.

Therefore, the product is acidic with very high surfactantcy able to penetrate the leather structure and relax the uneven tension.

The leather can be soaked up to 72 hours without sign of water damage, allowing you to stretch and massage the leather structure back to shape.

This process plumps the leather to its fullness so that creases or wrinkles could be manipulated and reduce or diminished.

This hydrating is a preconditioner for fatliquor replenishing besides relaxing the leather structure; it charges the protein leather fiber ionic positive (+ve).

Fatliquor are ionic negative (-ve) charged, fatliquor replenishing in this manner is accomplished through a process of hydrogen bond, unlike stuffing oils that is not stable and may affect the ongoing refinishing of the leather (that may result in adhesion problem). Leather rejuvenating is done, as seen in these pictures.



#1 Fatliquor is replenished after hyydrating to relax it.

#2 A paper rag/towel is used as a reservoir to contain the fatliquor and is covered with a plastic cling wrapper to control evaporation - this technique ensures the fatliquor gets into the leather structure.

I think FC include this with their re-coloring kits, but not with the touch-up kits.

Adhesion promoters have a few functions. Primarily is to secure a good foundation with the leather crust to even out and eliminate leather surface absorbency prior to a colorcoat application; so that the colorcoat does not separate by filtering the solid to the top and separating the binder component that tends to sink into the porous leather crust. Secondary is acting as a go in between the leather crust and the colorcoat for a strong adhesion (a good test is to use a 2-inch Scotch tape, stick it and pull test). Bear in mind that, the position you are repairing is a high stress area.



For protection I'll be using G Techniq L1 or Ultima Interior Guard +. I also had several other "leather conditions", but from what I read these dont do much on coated leather. I have Prima Nourish, BMW Leather Lotion, LM Vital, PB Leather Stuff, and Lexol Leather Conditioner.

There are conditioners that are for the leather structure and there are conditioner designs just for the finish. Using the wrong types would have their problems to go with it.

What you want is a rub-resistant protection that reduces friction rubs, with a buttery-feel that is available in leather-scented or scentless.



I can skip the filler. Just bought it in case. Also, I can probably get a small air brush set-up at a local Arts & Crafts store. Or, could I use a refillable paint sprayer where you add the paint to the bottle and the propellant is separate?

The best recommendation is using a Paasche Model H airbrush or equivalent, next is the Badger S250 or equivalent, especially targeting small spot.



I can propable get a small air brush kit locally. I think FC sells their dye as ready to go and they don't reccomend adding stuff to it (crosslinker)... Maybe it's in there already?

A crosslinker when added into the topcoat has to be used within a day, otherwise it gels up.



Are you saying Furniture Clinic's video is misleading? Could you clarify?

There is a different what you see and what you are going to do.

To do a “reverse repair” is easier and any first timer can do it right.

To do a “forward repair”, I myself have difficulties even though I know what I am doing, unless . . .



If you are mimicking the repair, which you see, you should be doing in this sequence.



1] Refinish the entire panel of the booster.

2] Stimulate the damage.

3] Repair accordingly, what you see, and then I guarantee you will get the perfect match.



In reality, you should mimic a “forward repair”; that is exactly what you want; just only, the red circle area.



Not a “reverse repair”, do you think so?





Roger Koh

[email protected]

 

[Swanicyouth]

Just an update as I plan on posting the finished image when it's done... But, apparently Furniture Clinic can't seem to get my order to me for whatever reason. I was told it was shipped, received no shipping or tracking info. So, I waited 2 weeks for something - and NOTHING. I believe I actually paid for overnight shipping too if I recall. Three emails later to them - no response at all.



So, I filed a dispute with them on PayPay. Then, suddenly, they "appear". Someone actually does work there. They say they were waiting on ME, to tell them what color kit I wanted. However, when I ordered the kit I specifically remembered ordering it in Black. It was in their drop down menu. So, through the Pay Pal dispute I told them that. Four days later - still no shipping or tracking info.



For anyone thinking of ordering any leather care products from Furniture Clinic in the UK. STAY AWAY. BAD NEWS.