Leather Cleaner recommend

TortoiseAWD said:
What in the name of science are you talking about? Pure water has a pH of 7 *by definition*. If you're not talking about pure, neutral water, then say so instead of being vague. You're either a) not talking about pure water, b) unclear on what pH means, or c) doing a tap-dance to say that a leather-safe solution should have a pH of 3 - 5, in which case you're no longer talking about pure water.



pH of pure water

pH Definition

Why is pH = 7 the neutral point?



A pH of 3 - 5 is roughly equivalent to the acidity of orange juice. I'm no chemist, but I do recall my high school science.



Tort
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By the way where do you get your pure water?



Have you ever take a pH reading of "your pure water" yourself?



Instead of passing on secondhand information, which is not yours!



We are professional that practice not just talk!



By the way I calibrate my pH meter before I take readings, and mind you I need more than two pH meters to confirm my readings.



I do practice pH...You known what I mean?



And the name of science is "Leather Chemistry".



What ever a leather chemist practice I practice too - the tannery chemist!



Another reference:



When comes to color - by definition "White" is not a color - check it out - Google it!



By practice in leather refinishing "White" is a color.



Because we practice "Leather Chemistry".
 
Roger Koh said:
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By the way where do you get your pure water?



Have you ever take a pH reading of "your pure water" yourself?



Instead of passing on secondhand information, which is not yours!



We are professional that practice not just talk!
Click to expand...



Feh. Done with you. That "secondhand" information is freaking chemistry, math, and physics. I will happily agree that not all water has a pH of 7 because it is not pure. Tap water ranges (in general) between 6.5 and 7.5. Pure water, again BY DEFINITION has a pH of 7 otherwise it's no longer pure water.



BTW, most science is built on second-hand information. We stand on the shoulders of giants. In this case, his name is Søren Peder Lauritz Sørensen. If you have problems with the scale he invented, you can take it up with him.



Is leather chemistry some special branch of chemistry that gets to make up its own definitions?



Tort
 
Hmmm.. There's not really any need to ask questions about a scientific fact that has been known for a long, long time: the Ph of pure water is 7.0.



Muddying the waters (pardon the word play)with questions about where you get your pure water from is not at all relevant. What *is* relevant is that the Ph of pure water is 7.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Hmmm.. There's not really any need to ask questions about a scientific fact that has been known for a long, long time: the Ph of pure water is 7.0.



Muddying the waters (pardon the word play)with questions about where you get your pure water from is not at all relevant. What *is* relevant is that the Ph of pure water is 7.
Click to expand...





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I can proof you wrong anytime, anyplace too!



Don't yo have a convention go to - and proof it there!



As I said looser pays the bill!



What I need is two or three well calibrated pH meters.



Scientific instruments tell no lies!
 
This is like someone arguing that 2 + 2 = 5 . . . for sufficiently large values of "2", of course.



Where do you get your water, pure or not? If it has a pH of 3 - 5 coming out of the tap, your municipality has some real problems with water treatment.



350px-PH_scale.png




If you want to argue that a safe cleaning solution for leather (NOT pure water) has a pH in that range, I'll take your word for it; I'm not a "leather chemist".
 
TortoiseAWD said:
This is like someone arguing that 2 + 2 = 5 . . . for sufficiently large values of "2", of course.



Where do you get your water, pure or not? If it has a pH of 3 - 5 coming out of the tap, your municipality has some real problems with water treatment.



If you want to argue that a safe cleaning solution for leather (NOT pure water) has a pH in that range, I'll take your word for it; I'm not a "leather chemist".
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I am putting a challenge to you, as I said looser pays the bill in any convention in any city.



Let the coordinator get the supplies from that particular city too.



1. 2 to 3 brands of pH meter.



2. A minimum of 7 brands of distilled water as stated in the chart.



Let’s have a panel of judges, calibrate the meters and go read all seven brands of distilled water.



If the average is 7 you win and I pay the bill, how about that?



With all your convincing supporting scientific facts, you will be there for a trill!



What do you think?





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Um, you claimed a pH of 3 - 5 first. Seems like the burden of proof is on you; feel free to cite *any* scientific source that says the pH of pure water is in the range of 3 - 5. Take tap water from any tap in North America . . . if you can hit anywhere near 5 with your calibrated meters and panel of judges, I'd be shocked. I'd also say the pipes in your city aren't long for this world due to the corrosion potential of a solution that acidic.



Good lord, man, this is high school science. pH measures the amount of hydrogen ions in solution on a logarithmic scale. Pure water is a reference point used by the creator of the scale that's considered neutral (neither acidic nor basic). As Supe said, if your water sample doesn't measure 7, it isn't pure. Brand X distilled water doesn't measure 7? Well, then, by golly, it contains impurities.



Tort

(fighting violent internal struggle not to abuse moderator powers)
 
Roger Koh said:
----







Water can be so… good!



Water can be so… bad!



It depends on the pH of the water!



It also depends on its purity or the solids that it carries!



So, a leather-safe pure water should have a pH value of 3 - 5.





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
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This was what I said:



"So, a leather-safe pure water should have a pH value of 3 - 5".





I can also proof it anywhere, anytime - preferably in a convention where the losers pays the bill.



You can bring all the high-end fashion brands of leather wears, where it says: "D0 Not Wet Clean" or "Dry Clean Only"!



Why? Non leather-safe water damages leather!





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
I haven't seen anything like this since Slick Willie was grilled on the Monica affair. Define ph ... define water?



C'mon ya'll this ain't cold fusion engineering, it's wiping down leather seats in cars. Every company has their fans and they're all the best, others are second or crap.



Most people ruin interiors beyond hope and expect miracles in a bottle or us to make it like new. You can't always do that , although Jake is the exception there!



Can we all agree that there are differences in "professional" opinion and it's up to you , the consumer to make a choice.
 
TortoiseAWD said:
This is like someone arguing that 2 + 2 = 5 . . . for sufficiently large values of "2", of course.
Click to expand...



That is *the* funniest thing I've read in a long time. :lol:lol:LOLOL



Kinda like arguing the Earth is round as a ball...



But where do you get your balls from???



Sorry.... couldn't help it.
 
JuneBug said:
Can we all agree that there are differences in "professional" opinion and it's up to you , the consumer to make a choice.
Click to expand...



I suppose you're right. My inner-science-geek is all worked up, though . . . it's like the freezing and boiling points of water. pH is a man-made scale that uses pure water as the neutral measuring point of 7, very much like Celcius and Farenheit temperature scales are based on the boiling and freezing points of water at one atmosphere.



Off to my Flat Earth Society meeting (and to boil water for my coffee @ 75' C) . . .



Tort
 
:dig:rolleyes::geez



Seems this thread which started off harmless is just a bunch of "experts" digging holes bigger than they can stand in.



Fatliquor a car seat? Sure, you want me to remove the skins off my Porsche just to condition them? Holy crap.:LOLOL:argue:hm Ah... I'll pass.

Deanski
 
Has anyone compiled a list of vehicles which came from the factory with coated leather?





I did an 1989 M3 today that made a "miracle recovery" using Leatherique products. I actually shocked myself.



Clearly not coated seats. Or, were the seats so worn that the coating was completely gone???? (too much mental masturbation...)
 
Man this thread is really out to confuse people. First they say condition it with oil. Then they say condition it with water. AND NOW you got people trying to reinvent the PH scale.



Roger is an EXPERT PROFESSIONAL though! If he says 3-3.5=pure water than, damnit, that's pure neutral water.
 
Dsoto87 said:
Man this thread is really out to confuse people. First they say condition it with oil. Then they say condition it with water. AND NOW you got people trying to reinvent the PH scale.



Roger is an EXPERT PROFESSIONAL though! If he says 3-3.5=pure water than, damnit, that's pure neutral water.
Click to expand...





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"If he says pH 3 - 5"



then "That's Pure Leather-Neutral Water".



Because the average pH of leather is 4.



So for leather the neutral pH is 4, do you get it?





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
See now your changing your definition after the fact.



Your original statement was "leather safe pure water."



The water ca,nt be pure if it had a ph of anything other than 7.



This is pointless though since I get what you mean now.



Thanks for clarifying.
 
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