Leather Cleaner recommend

Just your generic Woolite in a blue/white bottle. Cut with a ratio of 8:1 (8 parts water/1part Woolite). If not getting results after two applications, you can up the ratio.



Deanski
 
Thank you!



David Fermani, for inviting me here.



And hi! to everyone here too.



How interesting,



The more we know, the more we yet to know!



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
For me - I did a test of my own on a dirty old caddie's leather interior and woolite 8:1 worked better than all the other "leather" cleaners. I didn't have a problem wiping off any traces of woolite from the leather with just a clean damp terry cloth towel. Maybe CSI could find a trace, but I couldn't. David - you say Woolite doesn't recommend using their product on leather and then say that they've never tested it either, why not listen to Scott, Deanski and a few more that have used it for years and had no issues.



Remember - you can go with these chemical "experts" or believe your lying eyes - it's up to you.



-------------------------------













What is leather?



It is the combination of protein fibers with other chemistry constituents that includes the tanning agent (chrome), preservatives, fatliquors, etc.



Protein fibers in leathers are cationic charge (positive) to hydrogen-bond with these others anionic (negative) charged leather chemistry.



Therefore they are pH sensitive, as water is temperature sensitive.



Once the leather is exposed to alkalinity on a continuous basis, the protein fiber above the isoelectric point will shift to negative.



Thus like a magnet, like poles repel, the anionic fibrils and the anionic leather breaks bond.



It is the continuous accumulation of this alkalinity that slowly and gradually causing a “reverse-tanning� to the leather.



In pigmented leathers, first the brightening of the pigment often observes as streaks, follows by tackiness, sliminess as pH builds up.



As this chemistry phenomenon happens on a molecular level, it is beyond our lying eyes!



It may take 3 to 5 years on a comparative study to realize what has happen.



And remember, as long as the pH integrity of the leather is intact and constantly hydrated and fatliquor, leathers in general lives longer than we do.



Without fatliquor, leather is a piece of cardboard!



The lifeblood of leather is the “fatliquor�



Without the hydrogen-bonding capability between the protein fibrils and the leather chemistry, it will revert back to rawhide!



Leather is all chemistry!



Any cleaning solution that has a pH value will either strengthen it or weaken it!



So the average pH of healthy leather is from pH 3 - 5 and it is measurable with a simple pH meter.



Again, well calibrated, scientific instrument tells no lies, beyond our eyes can see - it’s up to you too!





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
>>>PPS: After thinking about this for a minute I would conclude that the PH level of the cleaning solution is pretty irrelevant when cleaning protected leathers. You are not cleaning the raw leather anyway. You are cleaning the urethane coating on the leather.

__________________



So you think the urethane coating of the leather has no pH value?



How about seat bolsters that are often worn out that is absorbent?



How about the perforated holes, needle holes and the micro cracks?
 
>>>Whats a good leather cleaner to use if I plan on doing regular upkeep? I tried the armorall stuff from the auto store and its greasy. So something that is not greasy.



-------



A good cleaner is one that matches the severity of soiling to the leather.



It may include a pH 3.0 acidifier rinse just to neutralize and rinse off perspiration from direct body contact, especially on leathered steering wheel.



A pH 3.9 sanitizer may help to retard microbial activities thus reduce odors.



Unless oily soils builds up you may then need a leather-safe (pH 3-5 cleaner) follows by an acidifier rinse.



However if a general purpose leather-safe cleaner does not produce the result you want than a leather-safe preconditioner is necessary to dwell on these heavy soiling to deflocculates it.



Assuming that yours is a cream leather seat and someone you invited happens to wear his brand new blue jeans or an aniline black jacket - you would expect a color rub-off onto the leather.



All purpose cleaners or preconditioners would be useless to remove these dye stains, which is a common occurrence on light colored leathers.



You may now need a prep cleaner to do the removing without damaging the top coating or the pigment color.



So you see there is a range of leather cleaners (acidifier rinse, sanitizer, cleaner preconditioners, prep cleaners, specialty cleaners like deodorizer, ink removers, marker removers) that perform different levels of cleaning that matches the type of soiling, it severity or types of stains.
 
>>>I tried the armorall stuff from the auto store and its greasy. So something that is not greasy.



-------------------------------------



Why do you need armorall?



Is armorall to protect the leather?



Too shiny and it turns yellow when aged.



Besides auto leathers need not use any protection, it already has the toughest top coat and yet it wears through to the crust.



What you need is a feel conditioner that reduces friction, thus reduce abrasion and impart a classic leather scent that charms both man and woman through the ages.



“The scent of leather is more leathery than the leather itself”.
 
I think it's time you discuss your product and experience with the website owner so maybe everyone can benifit from it.



This would enable you to discuss your product line and possibly sell it as well with this and other vendors.



Then, a forum for stricly leather could be opened and maintained. I'm sure then you'll be very busy answering questions/answers on leather, Alacantara etc used in vehilces.



Go on and have a discussion with David and we hope there can be a new addition to the forum and a new product line avalible to detailers that can benefit from your experience.



Regards,



Deanski
 
Roger Koh said:
>>>PPS: After thinking about this for a minute I would conclude that the PH level of the cleaning solution is pretty irrelevant when cleaning protected leathers. You are not cleaning the raw leather anyway. You are cleaning the urethane coating on the leather.

__________________



So you think the urethane coating of the leather has no pH value?
Click to expand...



It does indeed. The manufacturer of the leather in my Lexus states that the polyurethane coating covering the leather has a nominal PH of 7.5, in the same range as the cleaners in Woolite and Leather Master products, FWIW.



So I conclude, if PH matters at all, it should matter where the contact with the cleaners takes place and not the leather carrier which doesn't come in contact with the cleaners. According to the manufacturer, the cleaning that we are doing to "protected" leather is actually just cleaning the coating that is applied to the leather. He further states that the best thing we can do to protect our leather is to keep it clean. I buy into that philosophy.
 
jfelbab said:
So I conclude, if PH matters at all, it should matter where the contact with the cleaners takes place and not the leather carrier which doesn't come in contact with the cleaners.
Click to expand...



--------------------------







What is “leather carrier�?



The question is how long before the polyurethane coating wears out or micro cracks appears before cleaning solution reaches the leather structure.



And are you cleaning a 6 months old leather or a 6 years old leather, that’s a world of difference!



It might surprise you that using any product that is mildly alkaline above pH of 7.1 will deteriorate any substrate that includes our hair and our skin (ever heard of hair acidifier to balance the pH of the hair).



The best product for our skin or hair is mildly acidic within the pH 5.5 range (also being the pH neutral of average skin or hair).



And the average pH neutral of leather is around 4.



Mild acidity contracts and strengthens while mild alkalinity expands.



The main reason why you don’t find too much mild acidic solutions around is because of cost.



Ask any dermatologist what pH of soap is best for our skin.



Using the right pH shampoo for baby’s hair, don’t make them scream when it reaches their eyes.



So does pH matters when cleaning solution is concern?



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Deanski said:
I think it's time you discuss your product and experience with the website owner so maybe everyone can benifit from it.



This would enable you to discuss your product line and possibly sell it as well with this and other vendors.



Then, a forum for stricly leather could be opened and maintained. I'm sure then you'll be very busy answering questions/answers on leather, Alacantara etc used in vehilces.



Go on and have a discussion with David and we hope there can be a new addition to the forum and a new product line avalible to detailers that can benefit from your experience.



Regards,



Deanski
Click to expand...



Deanski, I think he's doing a good job... He's effectively answering questions and educating us about leather without promoting his product line. As long as he's not promoting, there shouldn't be a problem?
 
Deanski said:
I think it's time you discuss your product and experience with the website owner so maybe everyone can benifit from it.



This would enable you to discuss your product line and possibly sell it as well with this and other vendors.



Then, a forum for stricly leather could be opened and maintained. I'm sure then you'll be very busy answering questions/answers on leather, Alacantara etc used in vehilces.



Go on and have a discussion with David and we hope there can be a new addition to the forum and a new product line avalible to detailers that can benefit from your experience.



Regards,



Deanski
Click to expand...





--------------



I appreciate your kind intent and your thoughtful directions that everyone will win.



I will be happy with the privilege to contribute and maintain such forum.



Yes! Alcantara the Japanese technology first manufactured in Europe and marketed in North America as Microfiber.



Like to know how to clean them too?



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Thanks to Roger & judyB for taking the time to give us your professional knowledge and insight about the aspects of proper leather care. You’re a wealth of information. I know many people like to use what the popular people reach for, but that doesn’t mean they’re doing the right thing. I trust recommendations from people who know, not ones that have been lucky(or absent) of their results. You guys eat, breathe and sleep leather cleaning & restoration and your presence on the world’s greatest auto detail forum is greatly appreciated. It’s surprising the amount of misinformation and products that are counter productive to what we do! People need to realize that the care and preservation of leather is as important as the preservation of paint. We should be concentrating every effort on producing quality results with quality, specialized products instead of using something that isn’t intended for our field. I feel it’s a copout to advocate using a product that isn’t made for cleaning leather just because you’ve never experienced a problem with its use (yet). Like paint, you only get 1 chance to screw up. Why not use the very best approach, with the very best range of products? Thanks again! :2thumbs:
 
SuperBee364 said:
Deanski, I think he's doing a good job... He's effectively answering questions and educating us about leather without promoting his product line. As long as he's not promoting, there shouldn't be a problem?
Click to expand...



Agreed, just thought that we all could use a line of products strickly for automotive leather from someone who has the knowledge and the ability to provide the right product for this task.



Instead of everyone trying to find that "magic bullet" to fully clean and protect leather, it would be advisable to get this out to the members and to others in another forum dedicated to leather.



This way, all aspects just as we have here for paint can be addressed and the correct product from whichever vendor. It would also serve as a way to test and maintain a professional review by those who handle leather on other products currently out now and how they apply to automotive, household or other application.



I really think this can benefit us all on the forum here and elsewhere.



I'm sure everyone can agree that just as in paint, there are many products to choose from and some we do not know exist, but may apply. We need to truely gauge which is the best for whaever issue we may be faced with.



Those are my thoughs on how o better educate us and to guide us in the right direction.



Regards,

Deanski
 
David Fermani said:
Thanks to Roger & judyB for taking the time to give us your professional knowledge and insight about the aspects of proper leather care. You’re a wealth of information. I know many people like to use what the popular people reach for, but that doesn’t mean they’re doing the right thing. I trust recommendations from people who know, not ones that have been lucky(or absent) of their results. You guys eat, breathe and sleep leather cleaning & restoration and your presence on the world’s greatest auto detail forum is greatly appreciated. It’s surprising the amount of misinformation and products that are counter productive to what we do! People need to realize that the care and preservation of leather is as important as the preservation of paint. We should be concentrating every effort on producing quality results with quality, specialized products instead of using something that isn’t intended for our field. I feel it’s a copout to advocate using a product that isn’t made for cleaning leather just because you’ve never experienced a problem with its use (yet). Like paint, you only get 1 chance to screw up. Why not use the very best approach, with the very best range of products? Thanks again! :2thumbs:
Click to expand...



Thanks David for bringing him to this forum and let's hope that we can get another forum here devoted to leather with leather professionals able to assist and provide the best match for the task at hand no matter which vendor.



Regards,

Deanski
 
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