Learning curve with a rotary, how long?

David Fermani said:
I think learning with a wool pad is easier and safer than a foam. It creates less heat and is easier to control. The down side is that it leaves more micro marring than foam generally.
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David, as always good advice. I am just hearing to many stories about people saying that the PC wears them out . I don't need that or intend to put up with it if I can help it.



One thing that I simply don't understand is how does a rotary do so much more work than a PC when the rotary is run at such lower rpm's than a PC, it just doesn't make sense to me!



What rotary do you use in your shop and which one do you feel is the best?



Sorry for all the questions but this is a confusing area for me.



Take care, Changeling
 
Changeling said:
David, as always good advice. I am just hearing to many stories about people saying that the PC wears them out . I don't need that or intend to put up with it if I can help it.



One thing that I simply don't understand is how does a rotary do so much more work than a PC when the rotary is run at such lower rpm's than a PC, it just doesn't make sense to me!



What rotary do you use in your shop and which one do you feel is the best?



Sorry for all the questions but this is a confusing area for me.



Take care, Changeling
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I've owned and used B & D's and Makita's. My favorite is a Makita 9227 with a wrap around handle. The best is only what works best for you. Rotaries go in circles and PC's oscilate. I usually use the private labeled Auto Magic wool and foam buffing pads. Again, it's personal preference based on experiences.
 
Changeling said:
.... I am just hearing to many stories about people saying that the PC wears them out . I don't need that or intend to put up with it if I can help it....
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Don’t expect the rotary to be a walk in the park. Rotaries take work too. Removing a given amount of paint with a rotary will require less work than with a PC but it still requires work. :buffing:



Changeling said:
...One thing that I simply don't understand is how does a rotary do so much more work than a PC when the rotary is run at such lower rpm's than a PC, it just doesn't make sense to me!...
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I had a long explanation written down that even bored me to tears. So I’ll cut to the Reader’s Digest version.



With an orbital every single cutting particle on the surface of the pad moves in a very tiny arc (the orbit diameter, usually a small fraction of an inch).



With a rotary, the vast majority of particles are moving in much, much larger arcs (up to the diameter of the pad, several inches).



Since they have to move a lot farther to get all the way around their arcs, the rotary’s cutting particles scrape along and remove a lot more of the paint.





PC.
 
David Fermani said:
My favorite is a Makita 9227 with a wrap around handle.
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Mine too! I can hardly bear using someone else's polisher, or even my own PC...the 9227 feels juuuust right!
 
Invigor said:
I can hardly bear using someone else's polisher, or even my own PC...the 9227 feels juuuust right!
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For me, the only polisher I actually enjoy using...or even don't *mind* using...is the Cyclo. The rotaries are OK, and a lot more pleasant than the PC, but the Cyclo is just in a class by itself. Just a personal view that nobody else might share :nixweiss
 
I am thinking about buying a Cyclo and was wondering if a Cyclo and a Rotary are considered different? The Cyclo would definetly be a step up from a PC right? Is a Cyclo considered the step between PC and rotary?
 
It takes time and everyone is different. I'd suggest finding a crappy car and burn the paint on purpose. Burn it with every pad and compund combination you have. Now you have your threshold, you now know what it takes to burn paint. It sounds stupid but it will work I was taught in a similar fashion. Plus now you can go bck and teach yourself how fix burn marks. Of course there is a lot more to it than simply burning up some paint then backing off. It will take time to learn how to use a rotary. If you don't have cars to practice on go to you phone book and start calling places that install after market sunroofs. Ask them If you can buy their blanks, they will know what your talking about. A sunroof blank is the section of the roof that is cut out to install a sunroof. Now you have a perfect surface to pratice on. Get as many blanks as you can and get to work. Attach them to a table or work bench and buff away. I was taught this way a long time ago and I honestly cannot remember the last time I burnt a car's finish.
 
mose said:
I am thinking about buying a Cyclo and was wondering if a Cyclo and a Rotary are considered different? The Cyclo would definetly be a step up from a PC right? Is a Cyclo considered the step between PC and rotary?
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If you are seriously contemplating Cyclo you might want to know member is selling brand new ones on "going out of business" sale in Trading Post for $180, which is a steal IMO.



To answer your question, yes Cyclo has different approach than a rotary. If you take a look at Welcome to Cyclo Toolmakers, Inc. you will see illustration of their design. It is definitely a step up / step between but personally I don't see either one of them being absolute replacement for the other, each one shines (pun intended) in different areas.
 
Accumulator said:
... Cyclo is just in a class by itself. Just a personal view that nobody else might share :nixweiss
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Not true, you are not alone in your view. I too am in love with Cyclo (in certain areas). Now that I have realized thread on those boots is regular PC size I will be getting two flexible 3.5" pads from Patrick which will get me closer to the surface and will hopefully eliminate one of gripes I had with it. I have a feeling I will be falling in love with it all over again.
 
ZoranC:



Thanks for the response. It kind of answered my question. It seems as though the Cyclo isn't quite a rotary which is probably a good place to go to from a PC? I saw the ad from the guy that is selling the stuff which is why I started thinking about it in the first place....Thanks!!



I am looking for more correction in less time. Will the Cyclo give me that? I know that this is a very broad generalized question......but overall....which would be better for more correction in less time?
 
mose said:
..I am looking for more correction in less time. Will the Cyclo give me that? I know that this is a very broad generalized question......but overall....which would be better for more correction in less time?
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Yeah, I *think*it will, but it's not the *dramatically* less time effect you get with a rotary. If nothing else, the Cyclo is (for some of us) just *so* much more pleasant to use that you won't mind doing the work as much.



The Cyclo is still in that pretty-much-foolproof category like the PC. In fact it's *safer* than the PC is when outfitted with 4" pads (which has taught me that the PC/4" combo is actually *more* aggressive than the Cyclo, FWIW).



FWIW, ScottWax finds the Cyclo saves time compared with the PC. I only hesistate to say that it absolutely does because I sure do get effective correction with the PC when I use it with 4" pads. With yellow or orange pads, and something like H-T EC, the Cyclo is pretty effective too.



Between the different types of backing plates, the additional pad types out there these days, and now the Edge system with the double-thick pads, I see a bit of a resurgence regarding the Cyclo.



$180 is a good price, and if it's already sold you can scout out ebay. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used one; they never seem to need servicing and when they finally do it's pretty cheap.
 
Mose, Accumulator answered your question better than I ever could, like always. I will add just this: One picture is worth thousand words, hands on experience is worth more than thousand pictures. You will know what Cyclo is about moment you switch it on and start using it. At $180 you can't go wrong, if you don't like it you will always be able to easily sell at almost no loss, if any. One day I might sell my PC (to maybe replace it with different DA). But I will never sell my Cyclo.
 
Dammit!!!



He just sold the last one!! That's what I get for asking too many questions I guess. I needed to make sure it was the right tool for me though. Guess that's $300 extra I will have to take to Reno with me this weekend. Thanks for all the help guys! As always this site and it's people are the best!!
 
Accumulator said:
Noting that I do *NOT* consider myself a rotary-meister by any means (I always finish with the PC/Cyclo), but *do* consider myself proficient enough to take one to most any vehicle that needs it....



IMHO if you think the whole thing through and pay attention to what you're doing you shouldn't have any problems. That's assuming you have the knowledge base to think it through and the temperament to keep thinking the whole time you're doing the work.



As I've posted many times before, I hadn't used a rotary in over 20 years, and had *never* used one on b/c paint..but I took the Makita right out of the box and did my beloved S8 with it (following the deer-incident repairs and resulting marring inflicted by others). No problems, and if I can do it so can somebody else. But "can" and "will" are two very different things ;)



My $0.02: Think. Pay attention. Avoid the "just a little more.." temptation and realize that perfection isn't always in the cards. Tape/avoid anything that might be fragile. Check your work frequently (e.g., inspect your progress, feel for heat). And as everyone keeps saying- keep it moving.
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Great advice. Follow this, and there's really nothing 'intimidating' about the rotary. It's a great, and safe tool, if used properly.



That said, you should do your part and read up on rotary usage, view a few videos on the net, and educate yourself. Until you have a feel for the tool, run the rotary at the lowest (safe) speed.
 
I'm not shilling for Properautocare.com - fact is I've only bought one thing from them and that was not car related, but their web site is very good when it comes to instructions on the rotary - PC too. Sure, there are other methods and everybody does it a little different but the basic instructions are sound. Like i've said before, start slow and NEVER feel like you've got it "mastered" cause that's when Mr Murphy will make his visit and you'll have that sick to your stomach feelin of just f'd up. Respect the machine! Always! I know a logger that thought he had "mastered" the chain saw, now he has some cut off kevlar bids and jeans - not to mention a large stain in his shorts! Lucky for him he just got a scratch on the thigh.
 
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