Learn it, love it, live it

[AWDRATT]

If i had the money to bring you guys to drive here in the Philippines and let you drive for one whole day, after that session, i'm sure you're going to swear that you should have not accepted the invitation.



Just to give you sample of what's it like here.



The leftmost lane is for slow moving vehicles and the rightmost for fast (yes, we got it all wrong, but in fact the law states otherwise).



On a highway. the shoulder lane should be used for emergency stops. But here, they use it to overtake all the vehicle that at the left of it.



The stoplight lights. It has a warped meaning here. Green for Go, Yellow for Go Faster and Red for Floor it.



The blinking stoplight lights. This happens here usually during the early hours of the morning. Here it means, the stoplight is busted.



Seatbelts. You don't really have to buckle up, just straddle the belt on your shoulder and it's a compliance already to the law.



Pedestrians. On a crosswalk, the pedestrian does not have the right of way (when in fact they do).



Right of way. It doesn't have meaning here. The one who has right of way is the one who has the most dilapidated or biggest vehicle.



On a 3 or 4 lane road. There has to be a reason why its only a 3 or 4 lane road, right? Wrong. Here, we can make the 3 or 4 lane accommodate 5 or 6.



There are actually more.



Scary. Yes.



Even a professional driver, may not really want to drive here, unless you were born here.



You know Michael Schumacher and his flawless overtaking manuevers, right? Well, if you see our public utility drivers, i bet you, you will say Mr. Schumacher is a novice.



Cheers

 

[shaf]

Yikes! Yeah I understand traffic is pretty extreme in Asia in general. I've seen this first hand once and it ain't pretty.....

 

[Mr. Clean]

Please note that cutting off drivers traveling faster than you in an attempt to regulate their speed is a) unsafe, b) vigilantism, and c) would be considered reckless driving.

That is unless you are the Dallas Police Department, and then you call it a rolling roadblock.



lynxowner



I did drive in the area surrounding Baguio City and down to the Hundred Islands area back in 1980. Beautiful winding mountain roads. No problems there as there wasn't that much traffic, but as a passenger in the Manila area...WHOA! Hang on!

 

[Scottwax]

To be honest, there's good points here, but there's some missing logic.



The left lane is for the faster traffic, BUT (and it's a gigantic Rosie O'Donnell sized one), that doesn't mean that you have any right to get mad at someone doing 55 in a 55 in the left hand lane. They ARE the faster traffic. If you are behind them and think they're going slow, it's not their fault it's yours. You are the idiot who needs reminders. They are following the law. Remember there's no acceptable lane for speeding and endangering the lives of others.

Actually, you are dead wrong. In Texas, you cannot be in the left lane on the interstate freeway for any other reason than passing. Period. Same with most other states. Stay to the right except to pass. You can get a ticket for blocking the left lane.

I know everyone thinks that they are a reincarnated NASCAR champion, but the bottom line is that the government pays safety experts lots and lots of money to figure out the safest, most beneficial velocity for your vehicle to move at.

I don't buy that. Speed limits are set artifically low in many cases to generate revenue. The safest roads are those that have the speed limits set using surveys of the speeds traveled and then set at the speed that 85% of the drivers drive at or just below. A freeway like I-30 between Dallas and Fort Worth is very safe at 70-75, but the limit is 60 because of supposed air quality issues and an admitted side benefit according to the city of Dallas is they give out more tickets because the speed limit is lower than reasonable and most drivers just won't go that slow on a 3 lane (each way) divided highway.

So, while I will always travel in the right hand lane while reserving the left one to pass, I will cut off every 16 year old (or those with the mental capacity of one) who feel the need to speed at any time. Then I'll grab my nextel and call my friend in the squad car to come have a chat with the brain surgeon who thinks it's a smart idea to do 80 in a 65 in Houston.

So you are saying you intentionally cut people off? Two wrongs don't make a right you know. Now, instead of one person driving unsafely (in your opinion), now you are doing something unsafe as well.

 

[AWDRATT]

4DSC,

I understand traffic is pretty extreme in Asia in general

Extreme is an understatement. If you can come up with another word to surpass the meaning of extreme, that's it.



What Asian country did you drive in?



Mr. Clean,



Back then in the 1980s, as you remember it, the roads and the place, Baguio and Hundred Islands, were fantastic. But now, i don't really know how to describe it.



You seem to know about those places, were you born here and migrated to the US?



Cheers

 

[meGrimlock]

I don't buy that. Speed limits are set artifically low in many cases to generate revenue. The safest roads are those that have the speed limits set using surveys of the speeds traveled and then set at the speed that 85% of the drivers drive at or just below. A freeway like I-30 between Dallas and Fort Worth is very safe at 70-75, but the limit is 60 because of supposed air quality issues and an admitted side benefit according to the city of Dallas is they give out more tickets because the speed limit is lower than reasonable and most drivers just won't go that slow on a 3 lane (each way) divided highway.

It is true that speed limits are set artificially low. I work for a civil engineering firm, and when we design a road, there is a design speed that we build a road to, basically, the safest maximum speed that can be traveled on that road in perfect conditions. For example, there is a road in Frisco that we designed with a 60 mph design speed. Guess what the speed limit is on that road..........35 mph. Many times speed limits are set low to reduce pollution, but more than likely it is for revenue generating purposes.



jem7vwh, I do disagree with your vigilante tactics to stop people from speeding. As I said in a previous post, many of the accidents on the road are caused by people driving too slow, in your case, you could be one of those statistics. If you don't like someone speeding, don't cut them off, just call your local state trooper, and if they have nothing better to do they will be happy to pull the offender over. It is not your responsibility to decide who is not driving safely. I would much rather have Michael Schumacher pass me at 130 than have you pass me at 55, get it?

 

[Mr. Clean]

Mr. Clean,



Back then in the 1980s, as you remember it, the roads and the place, Baguio and Hundred Islands, were fantastic. But now, i don't really know how to describe it.



You seem to know about those places, were you born here and migrated to the US?



Cheers

lynxowner



I am sorry to hear that those areas are not as "pristine" as they were those many years ago. The contrast of the two areas mountain/coastal was wonderful. Is the Baguio area still considered a resort area.



No, I am a native Texan, who was lucky enough to be visiting Baguio. The local Filipino (correct?) people I met there were absolutely wonderful. The vistas grand. I learned to love balut (spelling?), Lapu Lapu (fish) (spelling?) and other local cuisine (I can't remember the noodle dish).

 

[shaf]

4DSC,



Extreme is an understatement. If you can come up with another word to surpass the meaning of extreme, that's it.



What Asian country did you drive in?

Hong Kong!



Passenger + Rush Hour + My Uncle Behind The Wheel = One Set of Ruined Shorts







Scottwax I love that law! :bow That would solve some problems up here but then I'd be always trying to pass I agree with the rest of your post in its entirety too.

 

[imported_stormsearch]

Actually, you are dead wrong. In Texas, you cannot be in the left lane on the interstate freeway for any other reason than passing. Period. Same with most other states. Stay to the right except to pass. You can get a ticket for blocking the left lane.







I don't buy that. Speed limits are set artifically low in many cases to generate revenue. The safest roads are those that have the speed limits set using surveys of the speeds traveled and then set at the speed that 85% of the drivers drive at or just below. A freeway like I-30 between Dallas and Fort Worth is very safe at 70-75, but the limit is 60 because of supposed air quality issues and an admitted side benefit according to the city of Dallas is they give out more tickets because the speed limit is lower than reasonable and most drivers just won't go that slow on a 3 lane (each way) divided highway.







So you are saying you intentionally cut people off? Two wrongs don't make a right you know. Now, instead of one person driving unsafely (in your opinion), now you are doing something unsafe as well.

I think a lot of people like to skirt around the issue that they are breaking the law by insisting that the speed limit is artificially set too low. As someone who's ridden around with a LifeFlight group before, I promise those limits are there for a reason. If you've ever had to help peel some jerk's vette off of a station wagon because he was in too big of a hurry to slow down on his way to go golfing, you might change your mind.



As far as cutting people off, I don't have to try hard, it's just a function defensive driving; a skill which is necessitated mostly by all the NASCAR wannabes.



So there you go, YES, I stay out of the left lane except to pass. But I will never do anything to help the a-holes who can't follow laws. Just because you don't like a law, or don't see the logic in it doesn't mean you aren't obligated to follow it. Anyone who spent 4 days in a basic Government class might remember that as a citizen of this country you agree to a social contract. That means you agree to give up a minor portion of your person freedoms to ensure the maximum benefits for all of society.



Sorry for all the losers who can't stand getting to the mall 40 seconds later, but I can't stomach that personality type.

 

[larry_bar56]

Have you ever noticed? Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a moron.



- George Carlin

 

[TortoiseAWD]

I think a lot of people like to skirt around the issue that they are breaking the law by insisting that the speed limit is artificially set too low. As someone who's ridden around with a LifeFlight group before, I promise those limits are there for a reason. If you've ever had to help peel some jerk's vette off of a station wagon because he was in too big of a hurry to slow down on his way to go golfing, you might change your mind.

Did you bother to read or understand anything about the 85th percentile rule (check out the links I posted earlier)? Setting limits artificially low increases accidents. NHTSA and FARS statistics and traffic engineers back this up: Drive with the flow of traffic, regardless of the limit. You and those around you are safest when traffic is moving roughly the same speed (the 85th percentile speed), not when mindlessly obeying the number painted on the white sign. That may seem counter-intuitive (we all grew up with "Speed Kills" and "55 Saves Lives" propaganda), but those are the facts. If you favor artificially low limits, you're basically saying "yes!" to more traffic fatalities.

As far as cutting people off, I don't have to try hard, it's just a function defensive driving; a skill which is necessitated mostly by all the NASCAR wannabes.

Shouldn't you be trying to avoid them, rather than trying to cut them off? Also, you might want to check on the definition of "defensive driving" . . . I was taught it means "anticipating danger to avoid accidents". Ask yourself, is cutting off others in an illegal and unsafe attempt to regulate their speed "defensive driving"? Sounds pretty offensive, to me (pun intended).

So there you go, YES, I stay out of the left lane except to pass. But I will never do anything to help the a-holes who can't follow laws. Just because you don't like a law, or don't see the logic in it doesn't mean you aren't obligated to follow it. Anyone who spent 4 days in a basic Government class might remember that as a citizen of this country you agree to a social contract. That means you agree to give up a minor portion of your person freedoms to ensure the maximum benefits for all of society.

I wonder where our country would be if brave citizens had not challenged bad law by disobeying.



Tort

 

[meGrimlock]

I wonder where our country would be if brave citizens had not challenged bad law by disobeying.



Tort

w3rd :xyxthumbs

 

[imported_stormsearch]

I wonder where our country would be if brave citizens had not challenged bad law by disobeying.



Tort

True, I wonder what the world would be like if you didn't have to wait an extra 30 seconds to get your frappucino. Come on. Don't draw a comparison by negligant and idiotic speeding and civil disobediance.



I took the time to read your post. The whole 85th percentile thing is BS. Here's why...the only reason why more accidents happen to you when you drive the speed limit is due to all the a-holes who won't. They're basically saying, you'll encounter less resistance if you go ahead and break the law too. Well, big surprise Sherlock! I still don't find it acceptable to break the law because it inconveniences you. Lots of laws inconvenience me. Affirmative Action, Stop and Render Assistance, Put the Toilet Seat Down etc. But as an intelligent citizen who prefers to remain a viable part of society, I uphold my part of the social contract. Sorry if following the law causes an incovenience to you, but that's a sad selfish excuse. pft...on the lemming statistic.

 

[meGrimlock]

True, I wonder what the world would be like if you didn't have to wait an extra 30 seconds to get your frappucino. Come on. Don't draw a comparison by negligant and idiotic speeding and civil disobediance.



I took the time to read your post. The whole 85th percentile thing is BS. Here's why...the only reason why more accidents happen to you when you drive the speed limit is due to all the a-holes who won't. They're basically saying, you'll encounter less resistance if you go ahead and break the law too. Well, big surprise Sherlock! I still don't find it acceptable to break the law because it inconveniences you. Lots of laws inconvenience me. Affirmative Action, Stop and Render Assistance, Put the Toilet Seat Down etc. But as an intelligent citizen who prefers to remain a viable part of society, I uphold my part of the social contract. Sorry if following the law causes an incovenience to you, but that's a sad selfish excuse. pft...on the lemming statistic.

Ok, we get your point, it is just that most of us disagree with you. In the last three of your posts, you have said the same thing. If you do not want to speed, then you don't have to. The whole point of this thread is to illustrate the fact that the left lane is for passing only. The fact that you would intentionally cut off a person driving faster than you is petty and bordering on immature. Be happy that you are not breaking the law, and let the rest of us go about our daily commute without having to worry about you cutting us off because we are driving too fast for your taste.

 

[Scottwax]

I took the time to read your post. The whole 85th percentile thing is BS. Here's why...the only reason why more accidents happen to you when you drive the speed limit is due to all the a-holes who won't. They're basically saying, you'll encounter less resistance if you go ahead and break the law too. Well, big surprise Sherlock! I still don't find it acceptable to break the law because it inconveniences you. Lots of laws inconvenience me. Affirmative Action, Stop and Render Assistance, Put the Toilet Seat Down etc. But as an intelligent citizen who prefers to remain a viable part of society, I uphold my part of the social contract. Sorry if following the law causes an incovenience to you, but that's a sad selfish excuse. pft...on the lemming statistic.

The 85th percentile rule is not BS. It is the reasonable and prudent speed that 85% of all drivers will drive at or below, even if no speed limits are posted at all. When Montana had no posted speeds for a while on their interstates, the average speed was in the mid 70 mph range, the same as on interstates with posted speeds. The average person will within a few miles an hour, drive at a reasonable and prudent speed for the road and weather/lighting conditions.



It is when the limits are artifically low that you have problems. Texas finally realized that when they got rid of the stupid speed limit on semis that was lower than for cars. The difference in speed was found to be unsafe and traffic flowed better and with less accidents when trucks were allowed to speed up and go the same speed as cars.



Ever since the 55 mph limit was repealed, the death rate per 100 million miles driven has fallen, despite the safety nazis claims of an additional 5000-10,000 more lives lost per year. It isn't speed that kills in most cases (not talking about extreme examples here), but the difference in speed and poor lane discipline on the freeways. By cutting off faster drivers, you are contributing to the problem.

 

[99323ic]

If I remember correctly, Road & Track or Car & Driver had an article (a very long time ago) on German driving habits/laws, which basically showed that although Germans (before the unification) had an average speed that was (significantly) faster per mile than Americans, yet had 1/3 less accidents.



Part of the reason for this was rigorous driver training, strict traffic enforcement, and insurance expense.



Basically, it all boils down to common sense, which can only be earned and not bought. Solid driver training and rigid enforcemnt of traffic laws would make the roads safer for all.



Clarification: By rigid enforcement, I don't mean strict speed enforcement, but more on road rage-type offenses, tailgaiting, speed excessive for the conditions, weaving, use of turn signals, etc. Enforcement in these areas would, IMHO, would make better traffic conditions for all.



my $.02

 

[AWDRATT]

Mr. Clean

I am sorry to hear that those areas are not as "pristine" as they were those many years ago. The contrast of the two areas mountain/coastal was wonderful. Is the Baguio area still considered a resort area.

Yes, Baguio is still considered a resort area actually known as the Summer Capital of the Philippines due to the colder climate it has compared to the rest of the country. But a couple of months ago, a news paper article stated that pollution is bad up there. Ah, what a waste



Nice to know that you still got the spelling of the food right. The noodle dish could have been pancit.

 

[Mr. Clean]

The noodle dish could have been pancit.

Exactly:up Really good cuisine.



I do remember it was the summer capital. On one of my "tours" I drove by the summer Palace. Before I got the rental car, I got good use out of the Jeepney (spelling?). Great fun.