Large black vehicles kill me

R

RAG

New member
Everytime I do paint correction work on a large black vehicle (like a Navigator, Suburban, or even Escalade) I regret it. It's a good thing I enjoy this work so much, cause I just can't charge enough for these monsters...sure, I charge more...but not enough.



I did a complete detail (interior and three step polish) a couple days ago on a 2002 black Tahoe and it took me all day (like 12 hours)...I quoted $400 over the phone, not knowing much except he heard I was the best and wanted me to remove most of the swirls and sratches...come to find out that it had never (ever) been detailed before...which in San Diego ALWAYS means it will have SEVERE RUST contamination which turned the clay procedure into a near 2 hour ordeal, and tha plastic needed a bunch of work, etc. Even if I had known, there's no way your gonna get someone with an ordinary family car to pay $500 or $600. And this isn't the first time this scenario's played out like this for me - you just can't charge enough.





Anyone else been sunk by these monsters?
 
When I see big and black vehicles I see -



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
My $/hour is usually much higher on small vehicles...just works out that for me.



Does anyone here ever charge people based on an hourly rate? I'm considering it on problem vehicles (like black H2s)...at leat that way when you tell someone $450 they won't be thinking some guy is going to come out, spend 3 hours, and collect beg $$...instead you could say it will take me 8 to 10 hours and charge ___/hour.
 
RAG said:
My $/hour is usually much higher on small vehicles...just works out that for me.



Does anyone here ever charge people based on an hourly rate? I'm considering it on problem vehicles (like black H2s)...at leat that way when you tell someone $450 they won't be thinking some guy is going to come out, spend 3 hours, and collect beg $$...instead you could say it will take me 8 to 10 hours and charge ___/hour.
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give a wider range of price over the phone, never just one price. Phone quotes are not estimates but ranges. "400-650 depending on condition, You will recieve a written and verbal estimate once i inspect the car."
 
I also give out a price range and let them know what will bump the price higher. If I hear kids screaming in the background, the lowest price range jumps by $50.



Luckily in the Dallas area, heavy contamination isn't normally a problem. Light claying on the horizontal surfaces is almost always all I need to do.
 
My pricelist is based on an hourly rate. I have a set payscale, i want to get paid a certain amount for my time/knowledge/skill etc. I have estimated the time it will take to do different size vehicles. this being based on my time in the field. I never tell clients exactly how long it will take to do any particular car. I definately don't tell them how much I make per hr. I give them an approximate, sort of like car mechanics do. They know it doesn't take 2-3 hours to change brake pads, but thats what your going to pay for. The heat/ac man does the same. I tell them a full detail may take anywhere from 4,5, - 10 hours, maybe more depending on the condition of the vehicle. Now the trick for me is to get the vehicle done in that set amount of time (without rushing). If i set my time at 5 hrs. i know how much i'm getting even if i fininsh in 2 hrs. I feel that we as professional should not be punished for putting out a quality job in a short amount of time. Like you said your the best, you should be paid as such. Another thing is i never price over the phone or b4 i see a car, been burned to many times. Gotta make em wanna come see you. I'll say I use state of the art equip., high line supplies, and tell them I have tens, hundreds, thousands etc. of satisfied customers. I assure them that i will work hard to make them happy. I sale them, but I tell them the truth. Just some things that have worked for me.
 
Agreed - pricing over the phone is a scary proposition.



But still, I have a hard time finding people with large black SUVs that are willing to pay what my time's worth to get them back into shape...when you consider that most people take these things through the local scratch tub once per week for a few years and then decide to get a detail...for me, that abounts to a 10 hour job at least, and I just don't come across many people who say...sure, I'll spend $500 or $600 to get this thing looking good again. Most are thinking $180 ought to do it - yeah right.
 
RAG said:
Agreed - pricing over the phone is a scary proposition.. . . Most are thinking $180 ought to do it - yeah right.
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I got a call this morning from a guy with a 2004 Black Tahoe. After asking my usual questions he says. "and it's not that bad." You know what that means. We talk, he tells me it hasn't been waxed since month two of his ownership, bought new. I expressed my concern for the condition of the exterior and refused to give a quote over the phone. THANK GOD! Checked it out about an hour ago and could barely contain my laughter and felt very sorry for that poor SUV. I quoted three bills for the outside and his eyeballs popped out of his sunglasses.



He's going to take it to the flat fee "detail center" for $150. I parted with the saying I heard from someone here on the board. . . .



"Cheap is rarely good and good is rarely cheap."
 
Yeah, I'm always flirting with ways to convince people without being such a hard sell. But these poor suckers don't realize that they are basically wasting their money when they go to one of these places - if they even clay it, they won't actually clay well enough to remove all the contamination. And then if they "polish" it...it will only be for "show"...running over the car with the buffer so fast(quick 1-pass jobber) that they won't actually do any polishing. And theyn they'll stain all the plastic with their cheap wax and leave residue in all the cracks. No wonder why people don't get more details often...because the car wash and dealerships are the front line, this is the experience most people have when they get a so-called "Detail."



Lately I've been explaining how I do a much better job than they'll find anywhere else, quote them the price (usually high in their mind), and basically tell them that they only need to try a good detail once and they'll never go back...in a nut shell. But it's usually a loosing pitch unless they've been referred by one of my clients who've already seen what it's like on the other side.
 
pssstue said:
I got a call this morning from a guy with a 2004 Black Tahoe. After asking my usual questions he says. "and it's not that bad." You know what that means. We talk, he tells me it hasn't been waxed since month two of his ownership, bought new. I expressed my concern for the condition of the exterior and refused to give a quote over the phone. THANK GOD! Checked it out about an hour ago and could barely contain my laughter and felt very sorry for that poor SUV. I quoted three bills for the outside and his eyeballs popped out of his sunglasses.



He's going to take it to the flat fee "detail center" for $150. I parted with the saying I heard from someone here on the board. . . .



"Cheap is rarely good and good is rarely cheap."
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And I too might have quoted $300...and my "analness" would have caused me to spend 9 hours on the SOB and then I'd be saying to mylself the same thing I always do after buffing out a hammered black SUV - "I shoulda charged more."
 
i'm still learning all the forum rules and where to post what, but since i see prices here and black cars, i'll ask here...



i'm not a professional and have been doing this on the side for the past 1.5 years... started off by hand 2-3 years ago, really got into it with orbital and then rotary for about 1 year

i in no way know the best techniques or the best products but i try my best to learn new things everyday and use my knowledge to satisfy the customer



anyway,



i recently detailed a 2004? nissan altima,the SE-R version with maxima engine, idk the exact year, not that it matters

the car, being pretty new, was in pretty good condition...

aside from the swirls, which were removed pretty easily with 1-2 passes with the rotary, there were 3-4 areas with a few pretty good scratches... i spent a total of about 6.5 hrs on this car

wash, clay polish, seal with klasse and i cleaned the interior... i don't clean carpets/upholstery, but that's next thing to include in my details... buying a steam cleaner is the first step

anyway, like i said, washing/drying and claying took about 1.5 hrs, including wheels and wheel wells

i first did all the swirls just to see what the lighter polishes could remove

then i moved on to the big scratches... i think i spent about 2-2.5hrs on these 3-4 areas...it was pretty easy because while i let one scratched area sit to cool off a bit, i worked on another, and then another, and so on

finally, i sealed the car with aio then sg and i was done



best thing about the detail was that i inspected the car with the customer and he showed me the areas he was most concerned about, etc... so every time i made a pass over a certain scratch, i would show him and he would also see improvement... when i was done, he was looking for some scratches on his roof for 2-3 mins, going around the car twice and looking at different angles, then said "f*ck you're good"



my question is, how much, on avg., would you guys charge for this kind of detail??

i will say how much i charged after i hear a few responses, but it was much less than you expect
 
everyone charges differently depending on their business model, if they prefer to charge hourly vs. flat fee, etc. to put it in perspective...the MOST i have charged yet for any full detail was $150, and that was for a black SUV which took nearly 10 hours. obviously, that is ridiculously cheap, but i do it for "fun" and it's not my primary income...just a hobby. others on here seem to average $25-$50/hour for their work.



bottom line is what do you need to charge to be profitable (if you are doing this for a living), what will your target market support regarding prices, and what is your time worth to you?
 
paradigm said:
everyone charges differently depending on their business model, if they prefer to charge hourly vs. flat fee, etc. to put it in perspective...the MOST i have charged yet for any full detail was $150, and that was for a black SUV which took nearly 10 hours. obviously, that is ridiculously cheap, but i do it for "fun" and it's not my primary income...just a hobby. others on here seem to average $25-$50/hour for their work.



bottom line is what do you need to charge to be profitable (if you are doing this for a living), what will your target market support regarding prices, and what is your time worth to you?
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gotcha.. i think the "what is your time worth to you" quote applies to me most of all because although i do enjoy doing it, i can be doing much better things for 7-8 hrs
 
why is it that when people with black bimmers/mercedes/any car and I tell them I usually prefer to 3 step polish, not compound then polish, then wax....they get all bent on the price....its a higher price because its another step in polishing....geez....lost a potential customer because I told him I would prefer to 3 step it, but if he wanted only a 2 step i would be able to do it, it just wouldnt come out as great, good, but not great! he asked if I would 3 step it for the 2 step price, I said no and heard a click.....thanks buddy!!!
 
toyotaguy said:
why is it that when people with black bimmers/mercedes/any car and I tell them I usually prefer to 3 step polish, not compound then polish, then wax....they get all bent on the price....its a higher price because its another step in polishing....geez....lost a potential customer because I told him I would prefer to 3 step it, but if he wanted only a 2 step i would be able to do it, it just wouldnt come out as great, good, but not great! he asked if I would 3 step it for the 2 step price, I said no and heard a click.....thanks buddy!!!
Click to expand...



haha... yea people just don't take this stuff seriously... i'm sure i take it half as seriously as many people on here... i can just imagine what "regular" people think about detailing

"he's going to wash my car for $150? ***??"
 
Houston has heavy air contamination/pollution, so it takes me quite a whiel to clay cars. I spent 2 hours claying a G35 I did previously.



Doesn't seem like I can do much with my market. I try to average out to $25/hour, but a lot of times it will become $18-$20/hour, due to unexpected circumstances. The most I have ever received for a detail is $150, since customers aren't willing to pay for additional polishing.
 
toyotaguy said:
why is it that when people with black bimmers/mercedes/any car and I tell them I usually prefer to 3 step polish, not compound then polish, then wax....they get all bent on the price....its a higher price because its another step in polishing....geez....lost a potential customer because I told him I would prefer to 3 step it, but if he wanted only a 2 step i would be able to do it, it just wouldnt come out as great, good, but not great! he asked if I would 3 step it for the 2 step price, I said no and heard a click.....thanks buddy!!!
Click to expand...





Give them what they want!! Find a way to make it look good in 2.



side note: If you could use a rotary you'd get it to look better with 2 steps then you could with 3 and a PC alone, and save half the time.
 
RAG said:
Everytime I do paint correction work on a large black vehicle (like a Navigator, Suburban, or even Escalade) I regret it.



I did a complete detail (interior and three step polish) a couple days ago on a 2002 black Tahoe and it took me all day (like 12 hours)...I quoted $400 over the phone, not knowing much except he heard I was the best and wanted me to remove most of the swirls and scratches...



Even if I had known, there's no way your gonna get someone with an ordinary family car to pay $500 or $600. And this isn't the first time this scenario's played out like this for me - you just can't charge enough.
Click to expand...



When someone calls and tells you that they heard you are the best and wants you to remove most of the swirls and scratches, then you can either price the job correctly, so you can make a reasonable profit or you can walk away.



Marketing 101. Find A Need And Fill It. Basically, you need to figure out the market you intend to service and then go out there and target that market.
 
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