Kevin Brown Method Question

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eddie926

New member
I've been on the verge of stepping up from the PC to a Makita rotary or at the very least to the Flex, but then started reading all the press on the Kevin Brown Method, and am now wondering if I really need/want to do that.



What's the general consensus among the people that have used KBM? Is the PC all you really need, or do you recommend still getting/learning rotary or getting the Flex?



I've gone into a holding pattern until Kevin's paper comes out so I can try it before I decide to drop $$ on another machine(s), but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.



Thanks!
 
I'm a PC user who does eventually want to do the same thing as you. If I had the cash or had a business that would be better off making the move then I wouldn't let the KB thing stop you from making the purchase.
 
had been a pc user with okay results on audi paint. very time consuming and the pc would get pretty hot. could only use 4" pads for any real correction. stepped up to a makita via a great price from a fellow autopian and love it. very easy to use. i also like that you have to keep it moving to prevent paint burn (like 4 inches per second vs. 1 inch every 2 sec or so with the pc) so the application and use is better for me. kinda like flyfishing vs just dropping some bait in the water--boring.



still use the pc for tight spaces, plastic bumpers, cleaning carpets and applying sealants but that's it. the makita is now my go-to polisher.
 
Go Flex. To this day I consider my PC mostly wasted $$. I have been perfectly happy with my Flex. It is far better at correcting issues than my PC and still has the advantage that causing damage is pretty difficult.
 
Have used the KBM on at least 10 vehicles. I have not picked up either one of my 2 totaries except to spin dry pads.



I had a flex for about 2 months when I first started using the KBM. After using both the flex and PC, I sold the flex.
 
:)
gmblack3a said:
Have used the KBM on at least 10 vehicles. I have not picked up either one of my 2 totaries except to spin dry pads.



I had a flex for about 2 months when I first started using the KBM. After using both the flex and PC, I sold the flex.
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Thanks for that input.



Since you've done several vehicles with the KBM...



One issue with the PC in the past has always been how slow it is to do an entire vehicle.



Does that issue go away using the KBM? i.e., maybe the PC passes don't go incredibly faster, but you don't spend any time chasing down holograms/buffer trails, so overall it's faster?



I know, I should just wait for KB's paper. I'm just getting antsey cause we're in the heart of detailing season and I'm anxious to find out more and get to trying it :bolt Especially if it means I really don't need to spring for a flex/rotary right now.







EDIT: Oh, and thanks for everyone else's inputs too. I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't appreciate those :)
 
I tried the KBM and it didn't work very well for me. I might have done something wrong, but I doubt it. Also, with the KBM, you just about rattle all the fillings out of your mouth and your hands feel like jello for a while.
 
gmblack3a said:
After using both the flex and PC, I sold the flex.
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Why?



OP the PC can be the one machine to have, but the issue becomes time... rotary is the fastest (you might save time if you can't finish down with rotary, turning it into a 2-step instead of 1-step job, but anything else it's no comparison), Flex is 2nd and PC 3rd... it's all preference in the end so try renting or borrowing the machines from someone local and see how you like each.
 
I love my Flex, but would be the very first to admit that a rotary is a step up. I have seen enough to know they are faster and far more versatile in the hands of a skilled detailer. That said, I am not yet at that skill level. I do plan to start working with a rotary this summer, but am in no hurry. The Flex has kept me very happy.



The PC vibrated me to death. Numbed my wrists and fingers and required a great deal of effort in comparison to the Flex.



I agree. Level of work and time versus results; PC (or similar), then Flex, and finally rotary.



I do not believe that anyone should even try a PC if they can afford a Flex. Just my opinion.
 
KnuckleBuckett said:
I love my Flex, but would be the very first to admit that a rotary is a step up. I have seen enough to know they are faster and far more versatile in the hands of a skilled detailer. That said, I am not yet at that skill level. I do plan to start working with a rotary this summer, but am in no hurry. The Flex has kept me very happy.



The PC vibrated me to death. Numbed my wrists and fingers and required a great deal of effort in comparison to the Flex.



I agree. Level of work and time versus results; PC (or similar), then Flex, and finally rotary.



I do not believe that anyone should even try a PC if they can afford a Flex. Just my opinion.
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I agree as well... if price isn't an issue, I really can't see why someone would choose a PC/G110 over a Flex... it takes longer to do the same amount of work, it vibrates like crazy and it can't handle pressure very well... I have a G110 for the simple reason that I can't stand the rotation of the Flex... any way of 'fixing' that btw so it goes clockwise?
 
lecchilo said:
I agree as well... if price isn't an issue, I really can't see why someone would choose a PC/G110 over a Flex... it takes longer to do the same amount of work, it vibrates like crazy and it can't handle pressure very well... I have a G110 for the simple reason that I can't stand the rotation of the Flex... any way of 'fixing' that btw so it goes clockwise?
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The pressure required to properly polish via the KBM is where I did not like the flex at all. The flex is harder to "handle" when applying pressure then the PC is and IME the results where too close to justify the $280 vs $120 price point.



My PC is 4 years old. It got a good year of use and now over the last 6 months, I have been applying pressure and its still fine. When I sold the flex, I did buy another PC as a backup and have yet to use it.
 
I have a PC, a Flex, and a rotary. I use the PC with 4" pads in tight spaces and with larger pads for applying LSPs. The Flex is used for polishing and paint correction. On relatively hard paint, it does the job ~3-4 times faster than the PC, at least in my hands. The rotary hardly gets any use at all.
 
gmblack3a said:
The pressure required to properly polish via the KBM is where I did not like the flex at all. The flex is harder to "handle" when applying pressure then the PC is and IME the results where too close to justify the $280 vs $120 price point.



My PC is 4 years old. It got a good year of use and now over the last 6 months, I have been applying pressure and its still fine. When I sold the flex, I did buy another PC as a backup and have yet to use it.
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That's true as I know exactly what you're talking about in that the Flex makes it harder than both the rotary and the PC to apply pressure... but at the same time, the Flex doesn't require the 'KBM' to get the same results. I guess in the end it's user preference but the vibration is the main reason I hate the PC/G110
 
Id be really interested in seeing if someone can make a short video clip of the KBM on the PC & Flex...vids sometimes clear up so many questions/concerns
 
oski83 said:
Id be really interested in seeing if someone can make a short video clip of the KBM on the PC & Flex...vids sometimes clear up so many questions/concerns
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There really isn't anything to clear up here... some prefer PC others Flex and most rotary... Flex vs. PC thing has been beaten to death already... I own a rotary and a G110, but from experience and from what I've seen, Flex is a better overall machine than the PC/G110 hands down... I hated the ccw rotation and I rarely used the RO so I sold the Flex and got the G110 for those just in case details... I've said it before and I'll say it again, the moment flex starts rotating cw, I'm placing my order in an instant.
 
I guess you didnt understand my post...I wasnt debating preferences of machines but more at getting members to post videos demonstarting the KBM technique...to see how each one interprets it and basically show it in a video
 
lecchilo said:
That's true as I know exactly what you're talking about in that the Flex makes it harder than both the rotary and the PC to apply pressure... but at the same time, the Flex doesn't require the 'KBM' to get the same results. I guess in the end it's user preference but the vibration is the main reason I hate the PC/G110
Click to expand...



If you take M105/flex/orange pad and use it in a non-kbm manner and then take the PC/M105/orange pad and use it in a proper KBM manner. The PC will have more cut and remove more defects by far.



You would have to try it for yourself. :)
 
oski83 there really is no point in vids for this method and until we see the paper published I believe some of us here have our own ideas how this works. The reason I say no vid is necessary is because unlike previous polishes w/ diminishing abrasives there is no "cycle" for the polish to go through. Non-diminishing abrasives just keep on cutting and are stopped by the user when the desired results are achieved. W/ the PC speed, downward force, pad selection and working time are the variables in the results.



I just used what I believe is The Method using Meg's D151 on my black car w/ excellent results. This is what I did (all work was done w/ my three y.o. PC): 4 and 5.5 inch orange LC pads were primed w/ product to 80% saturation point. I then applied a fat nickel sized dollop of D151 to the pad a and spread at speed 3 then tilted the pad at a 45 deg. angle an for additional minute (to finish priming) then to speed 6 for 2 or 3 passes w/ moderate downward force then slowed the machine to 4 w/ much less force for a few passes then 3 w/ the pad free wheeling. Stopped, wiped and checked my work. If pleased then I moved on to next section, if not I sprayed a little water on the pad and went over it again. Then another nickel dollop at the next section, repeat. 3 orange pads were used - one for top, trunk and hood and 2 others for the sides/back. All panels finished LSP ready, determined by sun light, incandescent and halogen lighting.



On a side note: I really like D151 as I've gone from 2 l-o-n-g days,3 steps and 7 pads to one step in about 8 hours and I'm done w/ excellent results. :spot Mind you I'm just an enthusiast who only corrects his 3 vehicles annually, just my opinion.
 
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