Kevin Brown Method - My understanding

chefwong said:
I must ask for all you pros with paint meters. Have any of ya'll done a 50/50 lets say with panel A with M105 and panel B side with SIP / correcting down to a similar degree and then measured the paint ..



I have yet to drink the M105 koolaid just yet.

Not a Pro Detailer so while I appreciate my time...I'm happy with the results I get with SIP, 105 and 85. Time as as time saved with M105



And while the results/time saved via M105 are intriguing, I just can't past the diminishing vs. non diminishing aspects of things...



Do I have to pay MORE care, when using M105 and a white pad ? Even with a PC or DA ? --- My current tool of choice is Roto with 106FA as the 1st polish I'm generally picking up...



I'm more scared to run with M105 in lieu of eating more CC than I should be than the thought of me when I 1st picked up the rotary...
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It sounds like your paint is in good condition, so why not just use 85 to clean it up before LSP? 105/205 would be for neglected paint.
 
todd@bsaw said:
Wow, maybe I should be reading the forums more than just skimming the Pro section once every few weeks. I didn't know this was such a huge topic.



I discovered this just recently while working on a ravaged e39 M5 in jet black. I used my PC with M105 and a burgundy pad for almost the entire car and finished with M80 with stellar results using basically the same technique that's been described already. It went by much faster than using the wool on a rotary.



I tried it again on a black Celica, but I only have one burgundy pad and 5 wool pads, so the foam pad got caked with the SS paint and became useless. I went out and bought a dozen foam pads the next day.



I have a feeling my wool pads and rotary are going back on the shelf next to my cyclo for a while...
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Speaking of pads to use with KBM, I got a few of the classic orange LCs that CMA sells. I much prefer these over the ABC orange pads that I have been using on the last 5 cars. They cut better and as long as I brush them and blow compressed air across the surface to remove the dust, I can use them on 3 panels. With the ABC pads, I usually had to clean them with water and APC after 1 panel. Also the same pads in black work great IME with M205.



chefwong said:
I must ask for all you pros with paint meters. Have any of ya'll done a 50/50 lets say with panel A with M105 and panel B side with SIP / correcting down to a similar degree and then measured the paint ..



I have yet to drink the M105 koolaid just yet.

Not a Pro Detailer so while I appreciate my time...I'm happy with the results I get with SIP, 105 and 85. Time as as time saved with M105



And while the results/time saved via M105 are intriguing, I just can't past the diminishing vs. non diminishing aspects of things...



Do I have to pay MORE care, when using M105 and a white pad ? Even with a PC or DA ? --- My current tool of choice is Roto with 106FA as the 1st polish I'm generally picking up...



I'm more scared to run with M105 in lieu of eating more CC than I should be than the thought of me when I 1st picked up the rotary...
Click to expand...





I took around 20 readings with my DFT Combo where I had a tape line. If you have a PTG you will know that clearcoat readings can vary in areas as small as 1 sq inch. Using the mill setting I could not read a reduction in CC thickness, switching to microns I had found 2 places out of the 10 side by side reading that I did where the reading was reduced by 1 micron.



Here is the area where I took the readings on an Infiniti M35:



img0650.jpg




Now people using different techniques may produce different results.
 
gmblack3a- I'll have to work on my M105 technique a bit...the more I use it the more I'll figure it out. I need to use more product than I usually do..



And yeah, you're not kidding about how ETG readings can vary!



chefwong- While M105 can be abused IMO, as long as you're only taking off the amount of (marred) clear that you really need/intend to remove I don't think it's any different from doing the work with any othe product. When I removed the light marring on my Yukon's hood I was using M105 but I didn't take off much of any clear as I quite the second the problem was solved. When doing some RIDS on that hood, I quit well short of 100% on a deep (previously existing) one; just rounded it a little more. The M105 wasn't taking off much clear it was just doing it efficiently (i.e., nice and quick).



SuperBee364- You *always* seem to get PFW pads to finish out well!
 
Accumulator said:
gmblack3a- I'll have to work on my M105 technique a bit...the more I use it the more I'll figure it out. I need to use more product than I usually do..



And yeah, you're not kidding about how ETG readings can vary!
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IMO its not the readings that vary, its the variance in CC thickness from one spot to another.
 
gmblack3a said:
IMO its not the readings that vary, its the variance in CC thickness from one spot to another.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear :o That's what I meant...



The varying readings *in the same place* are another matter, and one that gives me fits with my PhaseII. It's gotta be user-error but I've used other ETGs with zero prolems like this...just figures the one I actually *bought* is the one I have trouble with!



Oh, and I took your advice to heart yesterday when I polished the hood of my wife's A8 with M105; I primed the pads a bit more than usual (still not so much as to clog the pores) and I didn't have to mist with water until I was *almost* finished. Yeah, I coulda added more but it seemed like it'd be a waste of my product (v1.0 which I want to conserve).



I was sorta surprised how mild the M105 was via Flex/orange (and by PC/4" orange when I needed to concentrate on small areas), but that car has hard clear. The repainted hood is starting to have issues so I didn't shoot for 100%, but hey, M105 via Flex is still a nice way to go on hard-clear cars and zero splatter/holograms made the whole thing go quicker than I woulda done by rotary.



(She had to get the car serviced in TN and despite her explicit "don't wash it", well...they did. *One* dealership wash can sure do a lot of damage. Virtually *all* this marring was in directions/motions that I simply don't do.)



Not sure if it was necessary, but I gave it a quick pass with Flex/8006/M105 after the aggressive work, and for this I didn't use much pressure at all. IPA wipe (see SuperBee364, I'm not close-minded about doing those ;) ) didn't reveal any surprises though I *was* tempted to get really aggressive on the residual (and at least now very rounded-over) marring.



Final polishing was Flex/9006/1Z HG, plenty of pressure at first then lightened it to where I was jus burnishing with only the weight of the machine. I don't think it turned out quite as nice as when I burnish with 1Z HG using the Cyclo and very soft finishing pads, but it still looks OK.
 
gmblack3a said:
Sam, You should brush off the pad then blow some compressed air across it after each section. Clearcoat is building up and not letting the pad cut anymore.



6oz sounds about right for a CLK.



No need for water with M105 when using a foam pad.



Where you using the old or new DA approved version of M105?
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Thanks Bryan. I probably wasn't cleaning the pads enough. I guess that's been a problem with me, but I cleaned it every 2 panels. But about 6-8 reapply of m105. I'm using the original so it's dusting pretty bad. Actually it's the worst I've ever dealt with. Had to bring out the dust mask.



Question: do you reprime the pad after you brush it? It doesn't seem like there would be any product left on the pad. Do I still use about a quarter size (around 2 circles around the 6.5" pad) after I brush or would I use more since the product is off the pad. I'm using a Nylon golf club brush to clean the pad.
 
jmkiang said:
^ Well no sht but still. Haha guess the KBM just requires more product.
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I think the reason why is that the 105 needs product to be used. It dries up VERY fast so it's hard to reuse your previous application. That's why I had to use more, since I wouldn't have any product left over for the next panel (probably gone to all the dust).



WEAR A DUST MASK. WEAR A DUST MASK.
 
tdekany said:
Interesting that 6 months ago ""someone"" made fun of us for posting C&Bs 2 years ago using nothing but a pc.



How funny is it that now that person is pushing the pc over the rotary.:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::grrr:grrr:grrr
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=]. Plus, IMHO PC is still easier to use. However, I sometimes still prefer the Makita when I can't feel my hands anymore from all the vibration. :har:
 
artikxscout said:
=]. Plus, IMHO PC is still easier to use. However, I sometimes still prefer the Makita when I can't feel my hands anymore from all the vibration. :har:
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I agree but because I have a Flex as well, I don't reach for the pc anymore to correct. (I use my rotary most of the time)



Using the KB method or not the flex is a superior polisher though. m2c
 
tdekany said:
I agree but because I have a Flex as well, I don't reach for the pc anymore to correct. (I use my rotary most of the time)



Using the KB method or not the flex is a superior polisher though. m2c
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Would you suggest going from the PC to a Flex? I thought about the transition but I already have the PC. If I didn't then I probably would've gone with the flex.
 
artikxscout said:
Would you suggest going from the PC to a Flex? I thought about the transition but I already have the PC. If I didn't then I probably would've gone with the flex.
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I don't want to spend your money, but if you prefer working with the pc over the rotary, the flex would put a smile on your face for sure. So much more powerful.
 
I really don't know when things will be finished up.



This paper is much more than just pad priming. In fact, pad priming is a very small portion. The paper is dissecting each and every part of the DA in a way that makes sense.



It's like removing every last swirl on the car. It takes time and patience to get everything perfected. Once you see the paper, I'm sure you will understand the true value of Kevin's work.



I have already posted how to prime the pads.



Link:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/116716-look-into-pad-priming.html
 
Haha must be some paper haha jk you guys know way to much on detailing haha when I first got on here i thought I knew everything, after about a week of surfing the thread found out I didn't know jack to the amount that you guys have discussed.
 
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