Kevin Brown Method - My understanding

Ryan, I have some questions about M105 and the dusting.



What version of M105 were you using? What pad and speed? Was the pad primed? Did you use any water or spray detailer?



The original version of M105 has a tendency to dust more than the updated version. Using speed six and insufficient product on the pad can also contribute to the dusting.



Here is a section of Kevin's paper discussing dusting:



"While the dusting is bothersome, it is controllable. Methodical cleaning of the pad and paint surface prior to the reapplication of buffing liquid virtually eliminates dusting concerns. While not generally considered useful, dusting of the spent abrasive helps to remove the contaminated and moisture-deprived abrasive from the pad (and freshly polished surface)."
 
I used the old 105 via pc on #6.



I used the pad primed for some panels and unprimed for other panels to test the difference.



Pad was cleaned with megs SD and hot water perfectly every panel.



I used distilled water only, numerous times per panel to keep the pad soft and moist so the product stayed wet and worked longer.



I found best usage was when I only applied the product to the center of the pad and let it work to the edge of the pad on it's own in use.



The dust is just the nature of the beast in this process when using a pc. A quick wash down and it was all good.
 
Okay, here are some suggestions...



Are you letting the pad dry before using it again? The left over water can mess with the lubricants in M105. Also, the added weight can slow down the rotation of the DA.



Misting water is not a good thing to do while polishing with M105. Yes, the original formula M105 can dust. If you add water to the process, then you are forcing the dust (with abrasives) to clump together and cause swirling.



Instead of spraying water on the pad, it is better to clean the pad with compressed air and add more product to the pad. The cleaner the pad and the fresher the product, the less dusting and swirling.
 
Misting water helped a lot with the dust during the last pass over. The finish looked great for sure, except for a few pigtail tracers. I used the rotary to remove them and it came out perfect.



I did notice when I was pouring the 105 out of the bottle, I used my finger to spread the polish on the pad and noticed little pebble hard pieces of compound grit coming out of the bottle. I even used my other bottle and noticed the same thing too.



After I removed the little pebble like grit pieces, I did not get any tracer marks anymore.
 
I get the best results when I prime the entire face of the pad. I have had sanding tracers or pigtails a few times. This occurs when I apply too much pressure on a softer clear. If I go over the area with lighter pressure, it will remove the tracers.



As far as pressure goes, you want the pad to spin CW, if the pad is stopping or spinning CCW you are using too much pressure.



Amount of pad spin is dependant on the level of defect correction required and how soft or hard the clear is.



If you have a very hard clear with severe defects, a very slow spinning pad is best. More pressure is required.



Softer clear with minimal defects then less pressure and the pad will spin more.
 
rydawg said:
..I did notice when I was pouring the 105 out of the bottle, I used my finger to spread the polish on the pad and noticed little pebble hard pieces of compound grit ...
Click to expand...



I found a few of those too, and I've had this happen with stuff other than M105 too.

gmblack3a said:
I get the best results when I prime the entire face of the pad...
Click to expand...



I've been doing that too and with stuff like M105 I do think it's worth the little bit of added work. Besides making for a more even distribution, it's also easier to *not* clog some of the pad's pores.



As far as pressure goes, you want the pad to spin CW, if the pad is stopping or spinning CCW you are using too much pressure..
Click to expand...



I still (after all these years with the PCs...) find it odd that it takes so little pressure to mess with the spinning when I use large pads. When I tried the 8006 recently (first time in ages I'd tried using a 6" pad on the PC for correction) it sure didn't take much to overload it.
 
I just tried it today on Mercedes Cerami Clear. The first pass I tried after I primed the pad worked the best. I also had a lot of products on the car for such a small section. The next few passes didn't work as well and I almost used half a ketchup bottle of 105 to do a clk 320. Should I be using that much product?



It fished down well, was able to go over it with po85rd afterwards and it was just fine. Some panels like the hood needed something more aggressive afterward, but that's probably because of the defects. Oh I also used it on a Meg's Burgundy Pad. Never used the distilled water. Does it help that much?
 
artikxscout said:
I just tried it today on Mercedes Cerami Clear. The first pass I tried after I primed the pad worked the best. I also had a lot of products on the car for such a small section. The next few passes didn't work as well and I almost used half a ketchup bottle of 105 to do a clk 320. Should I be using that much product?



It fished down well, was able to go over it with po85rd afterwards and it was just fine. Some panels like the hood needed something more aggressive afterward, but that's probably because of the defects. Oh I also used it on a Meg's Burgundy Pad. Never used the distilled water. Does it help that much?
Click to expand...





Sam, You should brush off the pad then blow some compressed air across it after each section. Clearcoat is building up and not letting the pad cut anymore.



6oz sounds about right for a CLK.



No need for water with M105 when using a foam pad.



Where you using the old or new DA approved version of M105?
 
Bryan, are you pretty much using the PC now as your primary machine instead of the rotary? The last two cars I did, I started and finished with a PC. However, the old formula 105 with a rotary and PFW does huge correction, does it fast, and finishes out *very* well. Certainly well enough for 205 to bat cleanup afterward.
 
gmblack3a said:
..No need for water with M105 when using a foam pad...
Click to expand...



Hmm...interesting. I *did* use water to keep the pad moist when using M105 in a sorta-KBM manner. This was the older version and it seemed prone to drying out without the added moisture.



Using the water (very sparingly, I didn't want to drastically change the M105's characteristics by using too much) seemed to work fine. I also experimented with Meg's #34, which also seemed to work well especially when cleaning the pad when necessary (as you noted, clear/etc. can build up on the pad).



You have far more experience with this M105-centric stuff than I do so I'm wondering how you're getting by without the water :think:



SuperBee364 said:
However, the old formula 105 with a rotary and PFW does huge correction, does it fast..
Click to expand...



Heh heh, I should think that's a bit of an understatement :chuckle:



Finishes out well enough for a M205 follow-up huh? Was this on hard/soft/what paint?
 
jmkiang said:
^ Well no sht but still. Haha guess the KBM just requires more product.
Click to expand...



Sorry I could not resist. Yes more then a standard polishing method.



SuperBee364 said:
Bryan, are you pretty much using the PC now as your primary machine instead of the rotary? The last two cars I did, I started and finished with a PC. However, the old formula 105 with a rotary and PFW does huge correction, does it fast, and finishes out *very* well. Certainly well enough for 205 to bat cleanup afterward.
Click to expand...



Yes PC only for the last 6-8 cars. I almost got out the rotary (via KBRM) as the hood on the porsche is a very hard repaint, but I used the surbuf pads via PC and 2x of that got everything out.



Accumulator said:


Hmm...interesting. I *did* use water to keep the pad moist when using M105 in a sorta-KBM manner. This was the older version and it seemed prone to drying out without the added moisture.



Using the water (very sparingly, I didn't want to drastically change the M105's characteristics by using too much) seemed to work fine. I also experimented with Meg's #34, which also seemed to work well especially when cleaning the pad when necessary (as you noted, clear/etc. can build up on the pad).



You have far more experience with this M105-centric stuff than I do so I'm wondering how you're getting by without the water :think:
Click to expand...



Keeping the pad well primed helps.



On this prosche I started mixing new and old M105 on the pad when priming. I'd say 60% new and 40% old and it wipes away very easy.
 
Wow, maybe I should be reading the forums more than just skimming the Pro section once every few weeks. I didn't know this was such a huge topic.



I discovered this just recently while working on a ravaged e39 M5 in jet black. I used my PC with M105 and a burgundy pad for almost the entire car and finished with M80 with stellar results using basically the same technique that's been described already. It went by much faster than using the wool on a rotary.



I tried it again on a black Celica, but I only have one burgundy pad and 5 wool pads, so the foam pad got caked with the SS paint and became useless. I went out and bought a dozen foam pads the next day.



I have a feeling my wool pads and rotary are going back on the shelf next to my cyclo for a while...
 
todd@bsaw said:
Wow, maybe I should be reading the forums more than just skimming the Pro section once every few weeks. I didn't know this was such a huge topic.



I discovered this just recently while working on a ravaged e39 M5 in jet black. I used my PC with M105 and a burgundy pad for almost the entire car and finished with M80 with stellar results using basically the same technique that's been described already. It went by much faster than using the wool on a rotary.



I tried it again on a black Celica, but I only have one burgundy pad and 5 wool pads, so the foam pad got caked with the SS paint and became useless. I went out and bought a dozen foam pads the next day.



I have a feeling my wool pads and rotary are going back on the shelf next to my cyclo for a while...
Click to expand...



Interesting that 6 months ago ""someone"" made fun of us for posting C&Bs 2 years ago using nothing but a pc.



How funny is it that now that person is pushing the pc over the rotary.:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::grrr:grrr:grrr
 
I must ask for all you pros with paint meters. Have any of ya'll done a 50/50 lets say with panel A with M105 and panel B side with SIP / correcting down to a similar degree and then measured the paint ..



I have yet to drink the M105 koolaid just yet.

Not a Pro Detailer so while I appreciate my time...I'm happy with the results I get with SIP, 105 and 85. Time as as time saved with M105



And while the results/time saved via M105 are intriguing, I just can't past the diminishing vs. non diminishing aspects of things...



Do I have to pay MORE care, when using M105 and a white pad ? Even with a PC or DA ? --- My current tool of choice is Roto with 106FA as the 1st polish I'm generally picking up...



I'm more scared to run with M105 in lieu of eating more CC than I should be than the thought of me when I 1st picked up the rotary...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top