Judging how much wax to use?

B

bluemoon

New member
This past week I tried for the first time applying wax with a pc and a finishing pad. The first thing I noticed was how the machine is able to lay down an even, thin layer of wax so much better than I ever did by hand. The second thing I noticed was the finish seemed to be wetter as well as have more shine, than I remember having before when I applied wax by hand. The third thing I noticed was how much more wax I went through even though I couldn't hardly see anything more than an occasional smear of wax on the paint.

The first car I used Megs #16 and applied it to a Megs finishing pad with a rubber spatula, spreading the wax out like buttering bread and scraped off any excess. The second car I used CMW also to a clean Megs finishing pad. Only I put 4 drops of wax, about the size of a pinky fingernail, on the pad at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00 postions. I would apply this to an area the size of the average door and then reapply. Is this sound about right or is this way to much wax yet. On both cars the wax wiped off with no effort. It was hard for me to tell when I needed to apply more wax to the pads. I was hoping some of you that apply wax with a pc could offer some advice on how much wax to to apply to the finishing pad and how often to reapply? Is it normal to use more wax when using the pc than when doing it by hand?

Thanks for any answers.
 
From what I can understand, the thinner you can go the better. Sometimes even to the point where you're not even sure if there is wax there!



Some waxes, you have to be careful with in regards to how "thick" you go. I used Megs #16 for the first time this weekend and even though I might have gone a bit "thick" in some areas, it still came off easier than Zaino Z2 Pro.



Then you have waxes like Pete's '53 that you can layer thick or thin and come off with the same amount of elbow grease: none whatsoever!



In regards to you asking if it's normal to use more wax when using a PC versus doing it by hand, well, I can only assume that your pad on the PC is larger thus more wax needs to be applied as well. I think this is part of the reason why so many people apply wax by hand.
 
bluemoon- I havn't used the CMW so I hesitate to comment on that one. But a can of #16 lasts me for many years, even with fairly frequent applications, so I can say with confidence that it doesn't take much of that wax at all to achieve adequate coverage.



Generally, if you get enough wax on for a seemingly uniform application (if it looks OK then it *is* OK), then IMO you used enough. I think of it as bonding to the paint at the molecular level; almost all the wax you see on the paint is excess that just gets buffed off.



It's easy to use more product by machine, but it's not like it *has* to be that way. After I use the machine to apply to all the areas it can reach, I pull the pad(s) off and do the tight spots by hand. By the time I finish doing that, there's virtually no wax left to clean out of the pads.
 
From what I've read and seen it's like Accumulator says... really you could probably apply a layer so thin you wouldn't be able to see it and it would be enough. What you can see is wiped away.



For instance... when I apply Zaino I have a flourescent light above me in my garage. I realized that it's actually easier to see the product on glass than it is on the paint. (I have tinted windows and my paint is metallic gray) so I checked it on the glass and noticed that I could cover the entire rear window (large) with MUCH less than I ever thought I could... after that I apply it so thinly that really I can't see it until it cures THEN I can see a slight haze.



I do that with all the product I use now... wax, Zaino, whatever and it works like a charm. I generally layer as well so I know that if I do happen to miss some spots I'll more than likely get them on the second coat.
 
I was amazed when I learned how little wax I needed to use. I used to really slop it on when I did it by hand before finding Autopia. Then I was aggrivated by how long it took to remove. But I thought that was how it was supposed to be. I've been using Nattys Blue with my PC and I started out using too much still. I found all I have to do is rub the block of wax on the pad twice lightly and have enough wax on the pad to do an entire panel if not more.
 
The one thing I probably oughta mention here is that you don't want to overdo this "thin application" business. If you don't have *enough* wax on the pad you can end up buffing with a semi-dry pad. This can get aggressive (even with a finishing pad) and some people have had it disrupt their penultimate product (e.g., a glaze). It's another case of finding the sweet spot, where you get enough product to keep the pad lubricated and effect good coverage, but not so much that you get the "too much wax causing smearing effect" or have trouble buffing it off. Fortunately IME this just-right amount is pretty easy to figure out after you've used a given LSP a few times.
 
Like Accumulator said, you don't want to work a dry pad on the paint. I would apply a very narrow line of product to the pad, rather than drops at various positions like you described above. Once you turn on the machine, the product should get smeared around pretty evenly across the pad surface.

You could also try spritzing the pad with a QD before touching the paint, to ensure that no dry pad surface is contacting the paint.
 
Accumulator said:
The one thing I probably oughta mention here is that you don't want to overdo this "thin application" business. If you don't have *enough* wax on the pad you can end up buffing with a semi-dry pad. This can get aggressive (even with a finishing pad) and some people have had it disrupt their penultimate product (e.g., a glaze). It's another case of finding the sweet spot, where you get enough product to keep the pad lubricated and effect good coverage, but not so much that you get the "too much wax causing smearing effect" or have trouble buffing it off. Fortunately IME this just-right amount is pretty easy to figure out after you've used a given LSP a few times.
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This is what worried me to begin with, I wanted to make sure that the pad was not dry. When I apply wax by hand, especially #16, I put it on so thin that most of the time I can't see it, but I can feel where it has been applied and when it is time so add a little more to the pad. But when working by machine, I was also putting it on so thin I couldn't see it, but I could not go by feel like I am use to. So I added a small amount after every panel just to make sure that I had some on the pad. I learned some time back when applying #16 and 476s, if you can see it, it is way to thick and it will be alot of work to remove, so I just go by feel more so than by sight. With the pc, I couldn't go by sight or feel. I am trying to find the "sweet spot" of just the right amount. What do you use as a guage as to when to add a little more wax to the pad?:thx
 
bluemoon said:
This is what worried me to begin with, I wanted to make sure that the pad was not dry.. I learned some time back when applying #16 and 476s, if you can see it, it is way to thick and it will be alot of work to remove, so I just go by feel more so than by sight. With the pc, I couldn't go by sight or feel. I am trying to find the "sweet spot" of just the right amount. What do you use as a guage as to when to add a little more wax to the pad?:thx
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A few things come to mind-



#16 and 476S are *VERY* different. #16 turns liquid when you work it and provides a lot more lubrication than 476S does. I find #16 a lot easier to use.



I can usually see a *slight* amount of wax on the panels if I have my lighting right. Just enough to know I've effected adequate coverage. If in doubt I'll use a bit more wax, especially with the 476S.



Likewise, I can feel it when the pads are getting low on wax. Yeah, it's a subtle thing, but in time I think you'll develop a feel for it. The machine just doesn't "glide across the surface" the way it does when the wax is there.



Sometimes I'll stop the machine and feel the pads. Even though the 476S doesn't show much on the Cyclo's white pads, I can still tell if there's wax on 'em. With some other pads (e.g., Griot's red pads on a PC) it's easier to tell because the pads look "wet" when there's wax on them.



Spraying a *VERY* light bit of a carnauba-rich QD might make it easier to find that sweet spot. I keep experimenting with this "pseudo spit-shine" and I like it. I still can't figure out if it causes a slight compromise in durability so I guess that it must not do it to any significant extent (or I woulda made up my mind about it by now ;) ).



I always hate saying this, but I think that with more experience you'll find that you just naturally get the hang of it. I believe that's why I have so much trouble explaining some of this stuff...it just came naturally with experience and I developed a "feel" for it. But that sort of Yoda/Zen type of explanation doesn't help others out much :o
 
I can fully agree that #16 and 476s apply differantly (speaking of expierience from hand application). #16 is so much easier to work with, it just doesn't hold a candle to 476s in the durability dept. I only use 476s in the late fall to get me through winter, since it will make it through winter and #16 wont. I was hoping to try 476s with the pc this fall to see if it was easier to use, because it sure doesn't spread as nicely as #16 does.

I will have to keep playing with applying wax with the pc to get the feel for it like I did with applying it by hand.

Do you wash out your pads after you use them for waxing, or do you just keep a dedicated pad for each wax and not wash them?

Thanks for all the advice :)
 
bluemoon said:
Do you wash out your pads after you use them for waxing, or do you just keep a dedicated pad for each wax and not wash them?
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I do keep deicated pads for all my various products (and that adds up to a zillion pads :o ) but I also wash them out as best I can after each use. I don't worry about getting all the wax out though (good luck getting all the 476S out); I do more than just go through the motions but less than a truly thorough cleaning.
 
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