Its time to OD on HD

How does is compare to something like a LC orange pad/M105 setup? Would this be comparable to starting out with a LC white/M205 setup?
 
LilJayV10 said:
How does is compare to something like a LC orange pad/M105 setup? Would this be comparable to starting out with a LC white/M205 setup?
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Let's not try and have us compare this to any other products at all from our end. It would be best for you to do that on your end. Just see the results and give it a try. The finish is very high end and the work it takes to get it there is very easy and simple. Just get a small 16 oz bottle of each the Uno, Polish and the Speed and have some fun with it... I bet you will be amazed...
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
I've seen this term mentioned several times by you so I have to ask, what is a "high end finish"?





Jason
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A "High End Finish" is one acceptable to the industry standards as professional paint defect removal offering both shine and depth to the painted surface. Its one thing to get shine out of paint but yet another to get depth. Anyone can get a good paint nice and shinny but its not all that easy to get the depth out of it as well. There are two things that high end professional detailers are looking to accomplish in paint restoration. One is obviously shine and the other being depth. In order to get the depth out of paint its imperative to get a large percentage of the paint defects removed from the paint. So, by using "true cut" products like HD UNO and HD POLISH your sure to end up with a beautiful "High End Finish"



Depending upon the paint damage and the paint correction required its important to get the paint as close to defect free as possible by using the right pieces of equipment, proper choice of pads and of course the right choice of chemicals to achieve the amount of correction needed to offer both shine and depth.



I see work a lot whereas guys think they have done an amazing job in polishing a vehicles paint. But, As a professional I look to see if the deepest damage, and the finest scratches have been removed before I call it a High End Finish...



It may be easy to accomplish a high end finish and It could be very difficult to find it as well. There are a lot of variables that need to be considered in order to get the results your looking for.



Hope that helps you out a bit... And let me know if there is anything else you need... Good luck
 
The Total Pro said:
Let's not try and have us compare this to any other products at all from our end. It would be best for you to do that on your end. Just see the results and give it a try. The finish is very high end and the work it takes to get it there is very easy and simple. Just get a small 16 oz bottle of each the Uno, Polish and the Speed and have some fun with it... I bet you will be amazed...
Click to expand...



I apologize. I wasn't trying to put you on the spot. Just trying to get an idea of what it can do. I haven't been a member too long but I've seen a lot of people say great things about your company.
 
The Total Pro said:
A "High End Finish" is one acceptable to the industry standards as professional paint defect removal offering both shine and depth to the painted surface. Its one thing to get shine out of paint but yet another to get depth. Anyone can get a good paint nice and shinny but its not all that easy to get the depth out of it as well. There are two things that high end professional detailers are looking to accomplish in paint restoration. One is obviously shine and the other being depth. In order to get the depth out of paint its imperative to get a large percentage of the paint defects removed from the paint. So, by using "true cut" products like HD UNO and HD POLISH your sure to end up with a beautiful "High End Finish"



Depending upon the paint damage and the paint correction required its important to get the paint as close to defect free as possible by using the right pieces of equipment, proper choice of pads and of course the right choice of chemicals to achieve the amount of correction needed to offer both shine and depth.



I see work a lot whereas guys think they have done an amazing job in polishing a vehicles paint. But, As a professional I look to see if the deepest damage, and the finest scratches have been removed before I call it a High End Finish...



It may be easy to accomplish a high end finish and It could be very difficult to find it as well. There are a lot of variables that need to be considered in order to get the results your looking for.



Hope that helps you out a bit... And let me know if there is anything else you need... Good luck
Click to expand...



Mel,



In the above post you talk about a "High End Finish". As you say, A high End finish is created by both shine and depth. You mention of using a tru cut product like HD Uno and HD Polish to get booth the shine and depth you want. Im a little curious about this. I don't think a compound or polish plays a roll in creating depth or getting depth out of paint. There is a whole lot more to it then a polish or compound. When it comes to creating depth in paint, it takes a lot more then removing fine scratches and deeper ones. While compounds may be able to do this. Depth can only be created by having a flat service. So far no compound in the world that I am aware of will remove orange peel texture.



In the majority of todays modern paints orange peel is very common. Except for a few higher end cars that are sanded at factory level. So for example Lets choose Ford. I have a customer call me and he says " Im looking for a High End Finish. I want the maximum depth and shine on my car. I say ok. I reach for a bottle of Uno and a pad and begin to polish out the swirls and scratches, and other defects. Car looks phenominal All defects are gone the paint has shine. Customer is blown away and thanks me. By just compounding and polishing I have not created any more depth then what was already in the paint. I just simply removed the defects and brought out its maximum potential. In order to create the depth this customer wanted, I would have needed to sand the paint flat. The flatter the surface the more crisp , clear , and deeper the paint looks.



So in order to get true depth the paint must be flat, otherwise it is wavy causing the suface to refract light instead of reflect light.



Now to get lots of depth, it takes a transparent layer of film build on the surface. Transparent Layer of Film Build being " Clearcoat" SO lets take another scenerio.



A customer calls me and says Yo Barry I want to Maximize the depth in my paint and get it as shiny as possible. I want that High End Finish. I say sure sir. You have 1 layer of clear on this car. Im gonna need to remove some of it to get flat then polish it out. This will give you great depth, but if you want amazing depth send it to the best painter you know and have him throw 10 layers of clear on the car. Have him film build it up for me. This way I can sand as many layers down as needed to get it perfectly flat.

IN theory, the customer now has 11 layers of clear on this car 10 being added to the 1 factory coat. To start My foundation is 10 times thicker then the previous one layer. Lets say I remove 3 layers from sanding, The film build is now flat at 8 layers instead of 1 minus some from sanding.



So where Im going with this The flatter and thicker the the clear is the more depth your gonna get. Its all in the transparent film build and not the abrasives.



Here is where it gets really confusing, People say wow have you seen how Menzerna looks on my car, or holy poop this new HD Polish makes my paint pop, its incredible. My thoughts on this are if your doing true paint correction, it shouldn't matter what you used, because your removing all the polishing oils anyways. Paint after polishing shouldn't feel slick or smooth it should actually feel dry and grab your hand as you slide it across the paint. It should be stripped of everything before appling a transparent film of wax, sealent, or coating. Its that final layer that will enhance a perfectly leveled polished surface. In theroy the final LSP is creating a short term filmbuild that is transparent.



Hope this makes sense, Oh by the way, The new Uno and Polish are to great liquids that will help many achieve there goals. Can't wait to play with them some more!



Barry
 
The Total Pro said:
Hope that helps you out a bit... And let me know if there is anything else you need... Good luck
Click to expand...



Mel,



I am well versed in leveling clear coat to the most perfect state attainable but had never heard some one refer to it as a "high end finish"



Thanks for the response.





Jason
 
Barry Theal said:
Mel,



In the above post you talk about a "High End Finish". As you say, A high End finish is created by both shine and depth. You mention of using a tru cut product like HD Uno and HD Polish to get booth the shine and depth you want. Im a little curious about this. I don't think a compound or polish plays a roll in creating depth or getting depth out of paint. There is a whole lot more to it then a polish or compound. When it comes to creating depth in paint, it takes a lot more then removing fine scratches and deeper ones. While compounds may be able to do this. Depth can only be created by having a flat service. So far no compound in the world that I am aware of will remove orange peel texture.



In the majority of todays modern paints orange peel is very common. Except for a few higher end cars that are sanded at factory level. So for example Lets choose Ford. I have a customer call me and he says " Im looking for a High End Finish. I want the maximum depth and shine on my car. I say ok. I reach for a bottle of Uno and a pad and begin to polish out the swirls and scratches, and other defects. Car looks phenominal All defects are gone the paint has shine. Customer is blown away and thanks me. By just compounding and polishing I have not created any more depth then what was already in the paint. I just simply removed the defects and brought out its maximum potential. In order to create the depth this customer wanted, I would have needed to sand the paint flat. The flatter the surface the more crisp , clear , and deeper the paint looks.



So in order to get true depth the paint must be flat, otherwise it is wavy causing the suface to refract light instead of reflect light.



Now to get lots of depth, it takes a transparent layer of film build on the surface. Transparent Layer of Film Build being " Clearcoat" SO lets take another scenerio.



A customer calls me and says Yo Barry I want to Maximize the depth in my paint and get it as shiny as possible. I want that High End Finish. I say sure sir. You have 1 layer of clear on this car. Im gonna need to remove some of it to get flat then polish it out. This will give you great depth, but if you want amazing depth send it to the best painter you know and have him throw 10 layers of clear on the car. Have him film build it up for me. This way I can sand as many layers down as needed to get it perfectly flat.

IN theory, the customer now has 11 layers of clear on this car 10 being added to the 1 factory coat. To start My foundation is 10 times thicker then the previous one layer. Lets say I remove 3 layers from sanding, The film build is now flat at 8 layers instead of 1 minus some from sanding.



So where Im going with this The flatter and thicker the the clear is the more depth your gonna get. Its all in the transparent film build and not the abrasives.



Here is where it gets really confusing, People say wow have you seen how Menzerna looks on my car, or holy poop this new HD Polish makes my paint pop, its incredible. My thoughts on this are if your doing true paint correction, it shouldn't matter what you used, because your removing all the polishing oils anyways. Paint after polishing shouldn't feel slick or smooth it should actually feel dry and grab your hand as you slide it across the paint. It should be stripped of everything before appling a transparent film of wax, sealent, or coating. Its that final layer that will enhance a perfectly leveled polished surface. In theroy the final LSP is creating a short term filmbuild that is transparent.



Hope this makes sense, Oh by the way, The new Uno and Polish are to great liquids that will help many achieve there goals. Can't wait to play with them some more!



Barry
Click to expand...



Could not have said it better myself!!!
 
Barry Theal said:
Mel,



In the above post you talk about a "High End Finish". As you say, A high End finish is created by both shine and depth. You mention of using a tru cut product like HD Uno and HD Polish to get booth the shine and depth you want. Im a little curious about this. I don't think a compound or polish plays a roll in creating depth or getting depth out of paint. There is a whole lot more to it then a polish or compound. When it comes to creating depth in paint, it takes a lot more then removing fine scratches and deeper ones. While compounds may be able to do this. Depth can only be created by having a flat service. So far no compound in the world that I am aware of will remove orange peel texture.



In the majority of todays modern paints orange peel is very common. Except for a few higher end cars that are sanded at factory level. So for example Lets choose Ford. I have a customer call me and he says " Im looking for a High End Finish. I want the maximum depth and shine on my car. I say ok. I reach for a bottle of Uno and a pad and begin to polish out the swirls and scratches, and other defects. Car looks phenominal All defects are gone the paint has shine. Customer is blown away and thanks me. By just compounding and polishing I have not created any more depth then what was already in the paint. I just simply removed the defects and brought out its maximum potential. In order to create the depth this customer wanted, I would have needed to sand the paint flat. The flatter the surface the more crisp , clear , and deeper the paint looks.



So in order to get true depth the paint must be flat, otherwise it is wavy causing the suface to refract light instead of reflect light.



Now to get lots of depth, it takes a transparent layer of film build on the surface. Transparent Layer of Film Build being " Clearcoat" SO lets take another scenerio.



A customer calls me and says Yo Barry I want to Maximize the depth in my paint and get it as shiny as possible. I want that High End Finish. I say sure sir. You have 1 layer of clear on this car. Im gonna need to remove some of it to get flat then polish it out. This will give you great depth, but if you want amazing depth send it to the best painter you know and have him throw 10 layers of clear on the car. Have him film build it up for me. This way I can sand as many layers down as needed to get it perfectly flat.

IN theory, the customer now has 11 layers of clear on this car 10 being added to the 1 factory coat. To start My foundation is 10 times thicker then the previous one layer. Lets say I remove 3 layers from sanding, The film build is now flat at 8 layers instead of 1 minus some from sanding.



So where Im going with this The flatter and thicker the the clear is the more depth your gonna get. Its all in the transparent film build and not the abrasives.



Here is where it gets really confusing, People say wow have you seen how Menzerna looks on my car, or holy poop this new HD Polish makes my paint pop, its incredible. My thoughts on this are if your doing true paint correction, it shouldn't matter what you used, because your removing all the polishing oils anyways. Paint after polishing shouldn't feel slick or smooth it should actually feel dry and grab your hand as you slide it across the paint. It should be stripped of everything before appling a transparent film of wax, sealent, or coating. Its that final layer that will enhance a perfectly leveled polished surface. In theroy the final LSP is creating a short term filmbuild that is transparent.



Hope this makes sense, Oh by the way, The new Uno and Polish are to great liquids that will help many achieve there goals. Can't wait to play with them some more!



Barry
Click to expand...



Damn good post.
 
Is HD Polish more aggressive than HD Speed ?



For soft paint, is a Lake Country black pad too mild to use (with a Porter Cable) with HD Polish to remove rotary holograms ?
 
The black pad is perfect for HD Polish



rain10 said:
Is HD Polish more aggressive than HD Speed ?



For soft paint, is a Lake Country black pad too mild to use (with a Porter Cable) with HD Polish to remove rotary holograms ?
Click to expand...
 
Barry - reducing orange peel can be done without sanding to about 98% with a rotary and any polish. What does it however is a combination of any single polish system or compound/polish and certain pads from asia. I'd only sand a car if the vehicle has plenty of paint (ie aftermarket custom paint) and they want it 100% flat)

The pads I use to reduce peel from 10% to 98% are cheap and easily available and with a single polish system (Xpert, CSI, S-51, HD Uno etc) you should be able to achieve marring free finishes with those pads or very close to it



Am about to try them on my second Dynabrade head - the 61385 forced rotation and random orbital switchable head which fits my m14 threaded rotaries. that and the pads should take care of peel no problem



I have you to thank for the dynabrade's sir, much appreciated
 
SVR said:
Barry - reducing orange peel can be done without sanding to about 98% with a rotary and any polish. What does it however is a combination of any single polish system or compound/polish and certain pads from asia. I'd only sand a car if the vehicle has plenty of paint (ie aftermarket custom paint) and they want it 100% flat)

The pads I use to reduce peel from 10% to 98% are cheap and easily available and with a single polish system (Xpert, CSI, S-51, HD Uno etc) you should be able to achieve marring free finishes with those pads or very close to it



Am about to try them on my second Dynabrade head - the 61385 forced rotation and random orbital switchable head which fits my m14 threaded rotaries. that and the pads should take care of peel no problem



I have you to thank for the dynabrade's sir, much appreciated
Click to expand...



What type of pads are they, and where can they be purchased?



Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for pointing that out to me... But, I really don't need a lesson in paint refinishing and paint correction... I have done it a few times over the past 38 years. LOL... In light of having to go to extremes and get into wet sanding for the "Perfectly Flat Paint" you're talking about, I was just trying to point out that by removing paint defects you can get a very nice finish and yes, you will find more depth in the paint by removing the paint defects! Can I get more depth out of the paint by sanding out the orange peel? Yes, of course I can but it sure does take a lot of time and its not easy for just anyone to do.. In most cases, not many people know how to do that and, get paid what its worth so I tried to keep my response simple and easy!



Gosh dang, I was just trying to answer a question of someone asking me what I meant by a "High End Finish" I had no idea I was supposed to do a training session in paint correction to answer the question.



Good luck to all of you here on Autopia.org I hope your businesses are prosperous and profitable and truly hope the very best for all of you... Good bye
 
My comment was intended to be comical, but it was actually just rude. I have no issue with Mel and I should keep my own opinions to myself. Nothing that has gone on in this thread is any of my business, although this is a public forum.



David is right, this thread is rediculous.



I am embarrassed for contributing to this thread.
 
I think there is a misunderstanding in this thread. I think Mel was initially trying to convey that removing swirls and scratches from clear coat would allow the paint's natural depth and shine to show through. We all know a scratched and swirled up finish often looks opaque and that effect will negatively impact the way paint looks.



It's the paint systems natural attributes thatl determines depth/ color brightness/ and clarity...etc. Polishing paint removes those defects that would otherwise obstruct the paint's brilliance to "shine" through to our eyes.



Sanding the paint down to a flat finish only visually enhances the depth of the paint (qualities that are already present) because its clarity/ depth/ reflection is no longer visually refracted in all different directions.



Ultimately, polishing and sanding etc... will only allow viewers to fully see the paints own natural beauty characteristics, it will not add them to it.
 
The Total Pro said:
Good luck to all of you here on Autopia.org I hope your businesses are prosperous and profitable and truly hope the very best for all of you... Good bye
Click to expand...



So does this mean we can get Tunch back now?
 
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