Is Paint cleaner really necessary if polishing?

[Accumulator]

Yes, white cars hide defects better than any other color. White cars, however, also *show* gloss as well as any other color. A highly polished white car is stunning. The gloss you can achieve will make you go "That's a white car?" White cars are worth every bit as much effort to gloss up as any other color...



If there's a defect there, regardless of the size, it is detracting from the gloss... gloss is what happens when there is a lack of defects.

Yep :xyxthumbs Marred-up finishes refract light while better-polished ones reflect light. The latter look better. It's a matter of how much the person in question cares, just like with all this stuff.

... Does a paint defect exist if you can't see it?

Heh heh, you can guess *my* view on that As the man (and a certain woman) said- " A is A " .

It's compounding haze, something like SwirlX should be able to handle it with ease.

Oddly enough, with the M106-induced haze I've had to use more aggressive approaches than I woulda expected, sometimes turning it into another multi-step process (exactly what the M105 is praised for eliminating). I'll note that I *was* working on hard clear...

If you are anal enough you will always find a paint defect to worry about...

And IMO if somebody actually *worries* about such stuff they oughta work on *that* rather than working on their paint

Which of the following polishes would be best after Megs 105?



Menzerna IP

FPII

Megs 83

Megs 9

Poliseal

1Z Paint Polish



Or should i buy Megs 205 - i can get a small botle from ADS

I'd get the M205. The IP and #83 won't finish out well enough. The FPII, Meg's #9, and Polyseal will be too gentle IME. The 1Z PP will hide what you're trying to remove but the results will look OK (if perhaps temporarily).



The M105/M205 combo will do what you want, you'll just have to play around with pads until you find the right combo for your situation.



Seriously, I resisted both those products forever, especially the M205, and now they're almost all I'm using (for actual correction).

 

[GoudyL]

[quote name='SuperBee364']Huuuuge +1 to this. Defects, no matter what size they are, are what prevent gloss.

Not true, beneath a certain size (related to the wavelength of light involved), they don't affect gloss at all.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloss_(material_appearance)



And the human visual system has only a limited ability to resolve differences in contrast and detail especially at the extremes of the brightness range. Black vs white is easy to see, white vs slightly less white is harder to see.



If you want to have some fun with visual resolution limits, look at the microprinting on US currency or a bank check. Those microprinted lines look awfully solid unless you get real close or magnify them. And to a copy machine they are solid since they are beneath the sampling limit.

 

[SuperBee364]

Oh, whoops.. my bad... allow me to correct that..



"Defects, as long as they are large enough to be affected by the visible range of light waves, which is pretty darn small, are what prevent gloss."



There we go. Much better.



As far as the limitations of the human eye.. your argument there is so flawed. We aren't even *close* to approaching the limitations of the eye when we are polishing paint.



GoudyL, you are one of very few people who have actually managed to make it to my "ignore" list. You are so bent on arguing things way out of your level that in order to keep me from saying stuff I'll regret, I'm just gonna keep myself from reading it in the first place. Welcome to the ignore list! Enjoy your stay.

 

[GoudyL]

[quote name='Accumulator']Yep :xyxthumbs Marred-up finishes refract light while better-polished ones reflect light. The latter look better. It's a matter of how much the person in question cares, just like with all this stuff.



No doubt about it, but IMHO if you are getting wound up about white colored micro-marring on a white car you are wasting your time. Some spray wax and you should be good to go.



If the surface is completely shot, then it would benefit from being re-leveled, but applying the same amount of polishing action to a white car as a black car is silly. The incremental return on investment just isn't there.



Oddly enough, with the M106-induced haze I've had to use more aggressive approaches than I woulda expected, sometimes turning it into another multi-step process (exactly what the M105 is praised for eliminating). I'll note that I *was* working on hard clear...



Have you tried using straight M80 Speed Glaze and then going to M205? The thing I like about the diminishing abrasive polishes is that that the as the polish is breaking down it is constantly at the right size to polish away its previous hazing.



And IMO if somebody actually *worries* about such stuff they oughta work on *that* rather than working on their paint



You could have a lot of fun playing on insecurities at a detailing meet.



"Ooooh look, a hologram."



"Where? I don't see it"



"See, right there."



"I'm still not seeing it."



"You need to get the angle and lighting just right, then you'll see them; blind man"



"I'm still not seeing it."



"Look again, you non-visual clod!"



"Oh ****. Now I see them, they're everywhere!!!" :LOLOL

 

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

No doubt about it, but IMHO if you are getting wound up about white colored micro-marring on a white car you are wasting your time. Some spray wax and you should be good to go.



*snip* but applying the same amount of polishing action to a white car as a black car is silly. The incremental return on investment just isn't there.

You couldn't be further from accurate... you see, most on this site strive to achieve the very BEST and keep it that way via proper washing technique..



I as well as SB have tried to explain to you why ANY COLOR benefits from a level clear coat but it seems like you just dont get it.....

 

[GoudyL]

You couldn't be further from accurate... you see, most on this site strive to achieve the very BEST and keep it that way via proper washing technique.

Don't forget some folks just want a good looking car (that keeps its good looks) without too much hassle. :cooleek:



Other folks have lots of free time, and want to keep the abrasive makers and autopaint companies in business. As a shareholder of 3M/Dow chemical, I salute them :ca

I as well as SB have tried to explain to you why ANY COLOR benefits from a level clear coat but it seems like you just dont get it.....

They all benefit, but not to the same degree. Hence, worrying about hard to see whitish defects on a white car is for the most part misplaced IMHO.

 

[Accumulator]

white colored micro-marring on a white car[/B] you are wasting your time. Some spray wax and you should be good to go...but applying the same amount of polishing action to a white car as a black car is silly. The incremental return on investment just isn't there...

Well, we'll just agree to disagree I can always see a dramatic diff between panels that I've done/not, even on white. And sure it matters to me.."strive for perfection in all things" and all that..mediocrity is for the mediocre

Have you tried using straight M80 Speed Glaze and then going to M205? The thing I like about the diminishing abrasive polishes is that that the as the polish is breaking down it is constantly at the right size to polish away its previous hazing.

I had previously used #80 (which I do like) instead of the M205 for this exact thing, and it doesn't cut the same, despite having the same "cut level 4" description. Seems like the M205 works better, at least on hard clear, than the (initial cut of) #80. I'd also thought that maybe the #80 would finish out better, due to those diminishing abrasives, but nope, that wasn't the case.



I was a pretty hard-sell on M205 and only begrudgingly accepted that it works better than #80 for this. Good idea though..

You could have a lot of fun playing on insecurities at a detailing meet.



"Ooooh look, a hologram."

Heh heh, hey..you caught me :lol Holograms just happen to be one of the very few things that my wife and I are absolutely nutty about! Probably because holograms are evidence of poor work (or at least work that wasn't really completed). I can live with a lot of things (dents and chips simply don't phase me, deep scratches that others would remove I'll just round over), but holograms...heh heh, now *there's* something that I *would* go berserk over!



Otherwise...eh..when it comes to other people's cars I guess I go both ways and generally don't care much; whatever makes somebody happy is OK by me. "Detailing meets" in general leave me cold (for me, detailing is just another chore like polishing shoes and sharpening knives..do it to your satisfaction but don't expect me to adhere to your standards), but OTOH at concours shows *I* am the guy sighing that the winning car has more marring than my beater car.



I guess what I don't get is *WHY* it's so hard for people to keep things nice Now that I have my wash regimen sorted out our vehicles simply don't get marred up enough for polishing to be a big deal. Our daily drivers get used *HARD* year-round (including dogs, children, and infirm elderly passengers) but they stay in near-concours condition all the time. Just like all our other stuff (well, things where cosmetic considerations matter) stays nice. We simply take good care of our stuff...