Is it me or do others grit their teeth when they hear people

T

tar1059

New member
using a dishwashing liquid bath to strip wax prior to a complete detail?



Wouldn't that also strip the wax or protection in the door, hood and trunk jambs or basically anything it comes into contact with? Are these people applying protection to these areas when they are done? Do they realize this and the fact that the jambs are subjected to a lot of abuse when it comes to grime, debris, gunk and dry wiping?



Wouldnt you just let the claybar and multiple steps of polishing do their job in the designated areas?



Sorry, but had to get that off my mind.
 
8_ung said:
using a dishwashing liquid bath to strip wax prior to a complete detail?



Wouldn't that also strip the wax or protection in the door, hood and trunk jambs or basically anything it comes into contact with? Are these people applying protection to these areas when they are done? Do they realize this and the fact that the jambs are subjected to a lot of abuse when it comes to grime, debris, gunk and dry wiping?



Wouldnt you just let the claybar and multiple steps of polishing do their job in the designated areas?



Sorry, but had to get that off my mind.
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Thats exactly why they are doing it. Stripping off all the old crap, and starting from a clean slate. A claybar isn't designed for stripping old wax, its designed for picking up contaminates off the paint. And as far as the door jambs go, its not so hard to get a spray wax/sealant in there and wax it up.
 
OK " Clay is another way to completely remove existing wax or sealant coatings. Claying the surface prior to waxing will remove old wax, surface contamination (overspray, fall-out, pollution) but does nothing to improve surface gloss." A direct quote from a clay bar manufacturer. I clay bar a hood of a car and it no longer beads the water.



Also you can't tell me that a high quality polish like IP or FP won't strip wax. If it was carnuba... chances are it's barely there. If you are hitting a car hard then there is not much left in protection, OK unless you are changing products and procedures.



Trying to protect paint, in, around, under, and behind all the hardware in the jambs and engine bay seems more effort than just sticking to not washing with dishsoap. Yeah the jambs get detailed but the paint I feel has more chance of protection without stripping of the soap.
 
8_ung said:
Ok, fine about the claybar but, you cant tell me that a high quality polish like IP or FP won't strip wax. If it was carnuba... chances are it's barely there. An acrylic is different.



Trying to protect paint, in, around, under, and behind all the hardware in the jambs and engine bay seems more effort than just sticking to not washing with dishsoap. Yeah the jambs get detailed but the paint I feel has more chance of protection without stripping of the soap.
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My process for jambs usually doesn't involve washing them. I just QuikShine them, and apply OCW. They come out looking brand new.
 
8_ung said:
using a dishwashing liquid bath to strip wax prior to a complete detail?



Wouldn't that also strip the wax or protection in the door, hood and trunk jambs or basically anything it comes into contact with? Are these people applying protection to these areas when they are done? Do they realize this and the fact that the jambs are subjected to a lot of abuse when it comes to grime, debris, gunk and dry wiping?



Wouldnt you just let the claybar and multiple steps of polishing do their job in the designated areas?



Sorry, but had to get that off my mind.
Click to expand...



I agree. Dishwashing liquid can't be good for the paint or the rubber seals, weatherstripping, etc. Claying will remove any surface contaminants on the paint - including wax.
 
SDLexus said:
I agree. Dishwashing liquid can't be good for the paint or the rubber seals, weatherstripping, etc. Claying will remove any surface contaminants on the paint - including wax.
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Yea, if you use dishwashing liquid everytime you wash ur car then it cannot be good for the paint as you stated. But for someone who is just using it once or twice its not going to hurt.
 
8_ung said:
OK " Clay is another way to completely remove existing wax or sealant coatings. Claying the surface prior to waxing will remove old wax, surface contamination (overspray, fall-out, pollution) but does nothing to improve surface gloss." A direct quote from a clay bar manufacturer.
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I can vouch that clay does quite a bit to improve gloss if there's any oxidation on the paint surface. When I decided to put my old beater back on the road last winter it made a HUGE difference.

IMG_1170.jpg




IMG_1177_resize.jpg




Yeah, there's one coat of NXT wax in the 2nd pic, but it honestly made almost no difference in the shine compared to how it looked after claying. When I was halfway through even my teen daughter stopped and commented on the difference, and she is NOT a car person.
 
the dishsoap doesnt make me grit my teeth so much, but I saw a guy use the window cleaner squeegee (sp?)at a gas station on the body of his BLACK '03-04ish GS300!!! At first I was taken back, but I kinda chuckled as he kept at it. Had to get those stubborn bugs off I guess. When he started with the fenders I had to look away. :D
 
Dishwashing detergent has no special chemicals that cause it strip wax. Pull the MSDS on dishwashing detergents, including Dawn, and compare them to car washes. The same chemicals in the same quantity.



Yet the myth continues that dishwashing detergent is different (it isn't), will strip wax (it won't), is bad for paint (isn't), car wash soap is better (isn't). etc.



Truth and knowledge always fall to hype and hysteria.
 
Truth about dishwashing usage:



Truths:

Dishwashing detergents...

should never be used as routine vehicle washing product.



will displaced worn/durability reached endpoint old wax.



will remove any wax or poorly bonded sealant that is applied "over" a glaze (oil-based fillers product(i.e polishes with fillers)).



has very little effect on true sealants.



will remove oils/silicones and most other petro deposits from surface.



is an excellent product locally available (most homes) to remove before mentioned items when used in combo with claying will produce a virgin mildly polished (claying) surface to test a new product or apply sealants.



Myths:

Dishwashing liquids are equivalent and efficient as a dedicated product (i.e Prepsol)



Dishwashing liquids will remove all protectants from the paint.



Dishwashing liquids are still required to produce a virgin surface in conjunction with subsequent polishing (if polishing or using a paint cleanser that are both oil/silicone/filler free this step is redundant. If so, a IPA wipedown will be more efficient)



Dishwashing liquids will harm seals when used once or twice a year. Elite detailing encompasses detailing these items, along with other areas (engine, door jams, undercarriage, etc) that will negate this 1-2x usage of dishwashing liquids.





I am sure there are many more truths and myths about the subject. :D



Yes, I am puzzled that more vehicles than not are washed improperly using non-vehicle intended products to clean them every week or two. Hey, most people use the same wash rag to do above and below the vehicle beltline. :sadpace: Let alone use this same rag to clean them wheels. :eek:
 
bpfoley said:
Why not use a paint cleaner instead? Or use FK's Paint decontamination kit?
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No reason not to but not always necessary and the same endpoint can be achieve without the purchase of a dedicated product for once a year event for a frequently detailed vehicle with a durable protectant, a garaged vehicle or a hobbyist detailer.



A good paint protectant, periodic spot claying when necessary and good cleansing vehicle shampoo should ward off any need for such extreme paint decontamination (FK).

When my paint does need a paint cleanser, I normally add to this session a surface marring elimination step - abrasive polishing.
 
I've pretty much gotten away from caring what "regular folks" do to their cars, but the whole dishwashing soap thing sure does get a lot of attention. If I cared, I'd be less concerned about the dishwashing soap and more concerned about the wash media/technique.



Heh heh, Dawn did absolutely *nothing* to any of the healthy waxjobs I've used it on. Sure doesn't compromise #16 or Collinite! Doesn't seem much, if any, harsher than Pinnacle's Bodywork Shampoo (but the Dawn sure does lack lubricity).



When I detailed my mechanic's beater-loaners, I started with a Dawn wash. Why? Dirt cheap and effective- no point in wasting good Griot's Car Wash. Do I use Dawn on *my* cars? Nah, but if not for the lubricity issue I would when I'm gonna do a complete (paint correction) detail.



Regulars here know that I use AutoInt's ABC decontamination system, and I also use their New Car Prep solvent and other similar products (including PrepSol). I've *never* had any problems of any kind from using these products and they're a *lot* more aggressive than dishwashing soap. The stuff they make cars out of (and the paint they put on them these days) is a lot tougher than some might think.
 
One thing I have noticed is that dishwashing detergent doesn't rinse as easily as auto detergents. This can make the paint look dull. I pointed out to my neighbor that he probably shouldn't keep using dishwashing detergent on his new Infiniti SUV. He had just washed it and dried it and it looked very dull. I had him wax it up and it was once again beautiful. I then took him to Autozone and had him purchase some important carwashing items. :2thumbs:
 
Cassman said:
I then took him to Autozone and had him purchase some important carwashing items. :2thumbs:
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I hate standing near someone at the parts store (or Walmart) who's looking at car care stuff and some of the stuff they pick out. I have to bite my tongue when I see 'em pick up terry cloth towels, etc. :aww:
 
Just my $.02, but...

You don't want to wash every time with diswashing DETERGENT, but here and there and when doing a 'real detail', it's actually a good thing. Clearly you want a sqeaky clean surface so you aren't grinding contaminants into the paint when you 'wax' or polish. To the extent that a dishwashing detergent is a better degreaser makes it good for the cleaning process, often followed by clay, polish, sealing and wax or polymer finish coat.
 
I have noticed Dawn strips the colors of your black trim to a dull look. I won't use it. Can't be good in concentrated form to your rubber seals or anything on your car for that matter. JMHO!!!
 
Cassman said:
One thing I have noticed is that dishwashing detergent doesn't rinse as easily as auto detergents. This can make the paint look dull. I pointed out to my neighbor that he probably shouldn't keep using dishwashing detergent on his new Infiniti SUV. He had just washed it and dried it and it looked very dull. I had him wax it up and it was once again beautiful. I then took him to Autozone and had him purchase some important carwashing items. :2thumbs:
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Cassman,

Passing on knowledge of any type is an essence of life. Big :xyxthumbs for helping out your neighbor. :bow



When this essence pertains to detailing (automotive), maybe over time we as detailing fanatics will not be looked upon as "irregulars". ;)



The last time I checked IPA, Prepsol and its cousin are also not received well by vehicle molding, ABS sidecladdings and rubber seals. Use all products that will strip oils and silicones with caution.
 
I prefer to polish off old wax, sealants, etc than to use a soap that isn't meant for cars, nor recommended by any car manufacturer, paint shop or paint manufacturers. I've never understood the need to Dawn wash anyway, regular car wash soaps are pretty effective cleaners themselves.



Of course, some of the horrible misinformation I've heard from paint shops probably doesn't lend much weight to their advice. ;)
 
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