Is Extended-Mileage Oils a New Requirement for Vehicle Gas Engines Built after 2015?

[Swanicyouth]

I have a crude understanding of this I’m sure compared to a petroleum expert / engineer - but here goes - I’m sure some internet expert will prove me wrong.

There are 3 common “synthetic” type base stock oils sold in America (USA)

Group 3: Not real synthetic oil and not able to be labeled “synthetic oil” in EU. It’s hydrocracked dino oil. I have no idea what that hydrocracked means, other than it’s a way of processing traditional oil to improve & purify it. It is not a synthetic base - but it is regular oil molecularly manipulated to mimic a true synthetic. This is what the majority of “synthetic” labeled oil sold in the USA is. This oil is not suited for 15k drain intervals - which I consider “extended”

Group 4 & 5: Real synthetic oil. This is the stuff that is suitable for 15k drain intervals and is more expensive than the regular stuff sold as “synthetic” oil. Think Redline, Mobil 1 EU 0w40, & anything labeled 15k oil changes.

This information is old. It may have changed - may not. I dunno. Unfortunately, most big petroleum isn’t coming forward revealing exactly what base stock they are using in their products - so it’s up for speculation & may even be a blend of “synthetic” oil base stock.

IMHO, 15k oil intervals are crazy. I’m pretty sure both oils I use are Group 4 - but I don’t think there is anyway to know 100%. I use Mobil 1 EXP in my truck (change every 5-7.5k) and Liqui Moly’s version of BMWs 0w60 for their M cars in my BMW. If anyone knows additional or if I’m wrong - please chime in..

I’m pretty sure everything will eventually get spec’ed ”extended drain” eventually; but following that recommendation has not always proved ideal for those that have done it in the past and the specific oil you use, even though labeled “synthetic” - may not even be suitable. Not to mention who knows if the oil filters work ideally for this interval.

 

[Accumulator]

Seems to me that a lot of people underestimate how long oil is OK and overdo the frequent changes. I keep reading about guys who "use Mobil1 every 5K" for, uhm...psychological/emotional reasons. Zero rational basis, at least nothing they can articulate.

If somebody really cares whether their engine will last a gazillion miles, IMO they oughta get their used oil analyzed and see what`s really going on with it. Since most people can`t be bothered to keep their vehicles from rusting out, I somehow doubt that engine failure due to overly extended OCI is what fills the recycling yards with scrap vehicles.

 

[Accumulator]

Setec Astonomy- Hey, I`d somehow missed your earlier post about Active Accident-Avoidance Systems...My wife and I simply will not drive vehicles with those unless they can be (fully) disabled. Period.

 

[Dan]

Seems to me that a lot of people underestimate how long oil is OK and overdo the frequent changes. I keep reading about guys who "use Mobil1 every 5K" for, uhm...psychological/emotional reasons. Zero rational basis, at least nothing they can articulate.

If somebody really cares whether their engine will last a gazillion miles, IMO they oughta get their used oil analyzed and see what`s really going on with it. Since most people can`t be bothered to keep their vehicles from rusting out, I somehow doubt that engine failure due to overly extended OCI is what fills the recycling yards with scrap vehicles.

Problem is oil analysis costs more than the oil in most cases. I do agree that very few cars hit the junkyard based on extended oil changes. Most these days just have repairs needed that exceed the value of the car. I think rust isn’t as much of a factor anymore.

 

[tom p.]

The domestic mfrs are just starting to follow the lead of the Euro mfrs. who have had highly-specific, published oil specs for decades.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

The domestic mfrs are just starting to follow the lead of the Euro mfrs. who have had highly-specific, published oil specs for decades.

Huh? GM has had specs for everything, forever, from TPC`s (Tire Performance Criteria), to um, Dexron transmission fluid, to specs for oil. Quoting from a 2004 owner`s manual I just happen to have sitting here:

"Your vehicle`s engine requires a special oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M. Oils meeting this standard may be identified as synthetic. However not all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. You should look for and use only an oil that meets GM Standard GM4718M."

 

[Accumulator]

Problem is oil analysis costs more than the oil in most cases. I do agree that very few cars hit the junkyard based on extended oil changes...

Well, I wasn`t thinking about the cost so much as the info, if only in the sense of "doing it right" (IMO changing oil that doesn`t need changed is *NOT* "doing it right", I see it as all sorts of waste).

most these days just have repairs needed that exceed the value of the car...

Heh heh, all of ours are like that! I probably spend more on the Audis and the Tahoe than they`re worth every year, by a long shot. Again, for *us* the cost isn`t a deciding factor.

..I think rust isn’t as much of a factor anymore.

I dunno, but then ours are older and it`s not that much of a factor on the aluminum ones.

We got rid of two Mazdas over rust-out that they were gonna fight me over and I need to keep up with it on the Tahoe. Simply won`t drive the Crown Vic in the salt because of how they rust out in certain areas.

Around here (like...a lot of the cars in my neighborhood) wheelwell arches and fuel-filler pockets are common rust-out areas. A pal who fancies himself a Car Guy got rid of his Lincoln because he`d let the subframe rust out (never cleaned under there, *never* his tech had to tell him about it! ). Come to think on it, cars around here rust out almost as quickly as they did back in the day.

 

[Swanicyouth]

Well, I wasn`t thinking about the cost so much as the info, if only in the sense of "doing it right" (IMO changing oil that doesn`t need changed is *NOT* "doing it right", I see it as all sorts of waste).

Isn`t changing your oil too much like washing your car too much? I see it as cheap insurance. The thing is, manufacturer OCIs are likely stretched to the absolute max for a multitude of reasons. Engine oil analysis seems to me to inform more about the condition of the engine opposed to the actual oil. Since the oil`s components are proprietary - you really do not know if an additive or component is "used up" in the oil.

While many cars in the junkyard are not there from engine failure related to oil issues; engine failure due to oil issues can easily put any car in the junk yard - since engines aren`t rebuilt so much today - but replaced at high $$$.

 

[Fishroes]

I don’t like 15 or 10,000 miles between oil changes. I’ve always wondered even if the oil didn’t break down for 10-15k miles wouldn’t it be super black in color. I don’t know just asking. My 16 Tundra, Toyota says the oil change interval is 10k or 1 year whichever comes first. In the 06 Ridgeline it tells you the % of oil life left. When it gets to the 20-15% range I change it. And when it gets to that range the truck has been driven around 6k miles every time and it has had Mobil 1 in it since day 1

 

[Lonnie]

Around here (like...a lot of the cars in my neighborhood) wheelwell arches and fuel-filler pockets are common rust-out areas. A pal who fancies himself a Car Guy got rid of his Lincoln because he`d let the subframe rust out (never cleaned under there, *never* his tech had to tell him about it! ). Come to think on it, cars around here rust out almost as quickly as they did back in the day.

I think it has to do with two reasons, none related to the vehicle owner, other than the locale that they reside in:
1) Thinner Sheet Metal Gauges used in vehicle design and adhesives used to "solder" them together, or spot welds that are spread out for assembling them together;
2) the use of salt binders and/or magnesium chloride for de-icing, which is much more corrosive.

ANY vehicle driven for several (7 or more) years in the winter on roads where salt is used for de-icing will rust out in the areas you have mentioned, Despite even OCD efforts to keep a vehicle "clean" in the winter (well, maybe not yours, Accumulator!).

To vehicle manufacturer`s credit, many have undercoating applied to them during assembly to prevent rust out, but I think this is more a reply to prevent litigation for safety concerns and to meet longer periods for new vehicle warranties to make a vehicle more appealing to the consumer, especially since new vehicle loans are running into the 5 and 6-year length of time. Who would want a vehicle that rust out before the loan is paid!

 

[Accumulator]

Isn`t changing your oil too much like washing your car too much?

I wouldn`t ever wash a car that didn`t need it either

I see it as cheap insurance. The thing is, manufacturer OCIs are likely stretched to the absolute max for a multitude of reasons...

I think you`re mistaking my position on it. I don`t care about the OEM spec`ed intervals any more than I care about the intervals stated on a jug of oil. Too many, uhm...factors unrelated to the actual issue...in play.

Engine oil analysis seems to me to inform more about the condition of the engine opposed to the actual oil. Since the oil`s components are proprietary - you really do not know if an additive or component is "used up" in the oil..

Used Oil Analyses can, over time, build up an info base from which one can extrapolate. What`s in the used oil (from engine wear), how that differs between different categories of oil and different OCIs, lots of info if somebody wants to care that much (which I don`t). Some engines even need it changed based purely on time, while others don`t.

I`m not saying to go 15K between changes any more than I`m saying to change it every 3K. I`m saying to let the specific situation dictate the OCI. I fully expect every engine in our vehicles to vastly outlive both me and my wife and that`ll be good enough for me. FWIW, I`ve never had a serious engine problem in my life, and I`ve had well over 100 vehicles in the past ~45 years, many of which had 6-digit mileage and saw very hard use.

All of ours get synthetic and I have it changed about every 7.5K. My Techs all consider that erring *way* on the side of caution, but it`s my comfort zone and no info I`ve ever seen has said that`s too long for any of my engines when using oils that meet OEM specs. I bet I could push that to 10K easily (and that`s what the Techs think I could do).

 

[Accumulator]

Lonnie- Note that my Tahoe (and its clones) is notorious for rusting out in certain areas and when I got mine it had already started. Fixed it and so far (years now), it`s stayed fixed. EVERYBODY told me that it`d rust away, especially since it was never rustproofed and spent years being abused/neglected, but nope. Meanwhile, my brand-new Mazda MPV rusted from the inside-out, motly in places I later learned were from a manufacturing defect. E.g., there`s no way the *hood* was getting full of salt water or anything like that; it never should`ve rusted out there but it did. Meanwhile, the `93 Audi was so neglected by its original owner that all the undercar fluid lines rusted out, yet the body didn`t, now *THERE* is a well-built car! Night/day difference.

EDIT: Mazda refused to replace the rusted-out rear bumper because "a bumper is a bolt-on accessory and thus not covered by the rust perforation warranty". Yeah, really.

I always figure they must not use the nasty deicers in my area, although gee we drive all over in `em and must run into that stuff somewhere! But it just hasn`t been a problem. Well, except for the Mazdas.

When I talk about rust-outs, I guess I`m mainly thinking of people who never clean the obvious areas. I mean..what, *NEVER*?!? Go a week during winter without at least rinsing out the wheelwells, rockers, and fuel-fill area? I don`t get it.