Is Extended-Mileage Oils a New Requirement for Vehicle Gas Engines Built after 2015?

[Accumulator]

On start/stop: We`ve only experienced that in rentals and service loaners, but neither my wife nor I will ever be sitting in traffic with a vehicle that`s not running. Not one of `em has consistently restarted as fast as we can react to an emergent situation and we`re not gonna sit there and get hit waiting for a car to restart itself. Gas is cheap, avoiding injury is priceless.

 

[Dan]

On start/stop: We`ve only experienced that in rentals and service loaners, but neither my wife nor I will ever be sitting in traffic with a vehicle that`s not running. Not one of `em has consistently restarted as fast as we can react to an emergent situation and we`re not gonna sit there and get hit waiting for a car to restart itself. Gas is cheap, avoiding injury is priceless.

Guess it depends on the implementation but MB stop start is super fast. As soon as you start letting up on the brake, the engine is already running before you even have a chance to step on the go pedal.

 

[Accumulator]

DAn- Ah, wow, that *is* great! The Audi and Nissan systems I have experience with aren`t like that, at least not consistently. They`re fast, but not fast enough to be transparent to me.

 

[Bill D]

I’m an oil snob. I don’t trust the dealer or local grease monkey to put the correct oil in my vehicles, I buy my oil (and filter) and take it to whoever is going to install it. I also try to watch and make sure they actually use my oil that I brought and not the bulk stuff. My OCD is not limited to paint.

I would do the same but fortunately I can change my own oil.

 

[bcgreen]

I just had an oil change and I had gone 13k on Mobil 1 0-40. I was away for the winter and I was getting warnings on my dash that I need to change my oil. When I got home a couple of weeks ago I gone 3K over. My mechanic asked me if I had changed the oil since my last visit because it looked like fresh oil. He and I was both impressed at the condition of the oil.

 

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, if I didn`t trust the Tech 100% I just wouldn`t let him around my vehicle period. I`ve had too many, uhm...issues..where an apology after the fact didn`t cut it. Yes indeed, I`ll be up a [certain] creek if they retire!

 

[Lonnie]

One of the consequences of there being less engineers and less manufacturing, is less people are exposed to engineering and manufacturing. When you decide to utilize a stop-start system, you change the specification for the vehicle, which results in design and engineering changes to meet the new specification.
IMO you guys aren`t giving enough credit to the engineers and designers that make these systems work, by just presuming that nothing is changed except some suit told someone to change the software so that the starter and alternator get worn out.

I did work in mechanical engineering, and yes, changes in specifications in machinery, or more correctly, requirements to meet government-mandated environmental and safety regulations drastically changed the functionality of a machine, requiring added costs to meet those changes. While making a machine to meet a new OSHA regulation may provide a worker with more "safety", trying to service or maintain such machinery may add hours to that needed service/maintenance time and hence cost. What is REALLY unfortunate is that non-regulated safety designs are often the result of the sue-happy society (legal system litigation) we have in America and the need to "cover your behind" to protect your machine design company.(I need to have a redundant safety switch on that guard panel? Why is the operator even in there in the first place!)

The other aspect of machine design was to make them "more efficient" that required less human interface or attention, AKA , automation. While this is done, the level of sophistication and complexity increases the cost while at the same time requiring a better educated and trained machine operator. You can no longer hire "someone off the street" to run some of these machines. They need tech school training on Programmable Logic Controls and Machine Human Interface Touch Screens, along with a high level mechanical aptitude. Everyone thinks that today`s machine operators are button pushers. They are not.

There are always trade-offs in design: less human intervention or a new level of safety requires increases sophistication and higher machine costs.
The other rule of design: Just when you think you`ve made some thing idiot-proof, they make better idiots!!

The analogy is much the same with today`s modern cars: there is not much the average vehicle owner can do in terms of maintenance on their own vehicle, EXCEPT maybe changing their oil. Without sophisticated electronic diagnostic equipment and training, it is difficult to service a modern vehicle properly because of the electronics and computers and proprietary software programs involved.

 

[Dan]

The analogy is much the same with today`s modern cars: there is not much the average vehicle owner can do in terms of maintenance on their own vehicle, EXCEPT maybe changing their oil. Without sophisticated electronic diagnostic equipment and training, it is difficult to service a modern vehicle properly because of the electronics and computers and proprietary software programs involved.

I guess it depends on what you are used too. I look at an old engine with a carb and non electronic ignition and think wow, that looks complex. Today’s computerized systems do a nice job of pointing you in the right direction. Then you just use the charts to test the individual sensors or assemblies. You can even log data and pinpoint very intermittent issues.

I once had a vacuum leak that caused a weird stutter on an 90s mustang that drove me nuts for a year or so. Wish I had OBD2 back then.

The one thing that is bad on newer cars is when wiring starts to fail. That causes all sorts of issues.

 

[Dan]

DAn- Ah, wow, that *is* great! The Audi and Nissan systems I have experience with aren`t like that, at least not consistently. They`re fast, but not fast enough to be transparent to me.

Yeah, I thought I was going to be buying something to bypass it but I’ve grown to like it. Also love the brake pedal hold function too. So helpful in traffic. Just come to a stop and push down just a bit harder and the car holds the brake. Just press the go pedal when the light turns green.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I`m not going to argue that some of this stuff is a result of our litigious society, or that the best way to idiot-proof things is not to have idiots, but I`m going to argue with this:

You can no longer hire "someone off the street" to run some of these machines. They need tech school training on Programmable Logic Controls and Machine Human Interface Touch Screens, along with a high level mechanical aptitude. Everyone thinks that today`s machine operators are button pushers. They are not.

You could never hire "someone off the street", that was a fallacy promoted by the sales executives to the (machine-buying) bosses who wanted to be deluded or didn`t know any better. A sophisticated machine has always needed a sophisticated operator, otherwise all you get is garbage out.

 

[Accumulator]

Dan- I were just starting out driving/getting trained I`m sure I`d assimilate the new-tech the same way I did the old.

With so many things being different from car-to-car these days, I wonder how many people really get dialed-in with their vehicles. If controls/switches/etc. are in different places, or if doing one thing or another (e.g., the brake-hold example) differs, I don`t see how people are able to attain unconscious competence (yeah, I realize that few ever do anyhow ). Life doesn`t pause for a second while ya remember what to do or look for something.

 

[Dan]

Dan- I were just starting out driving/getting trained I`m sure I`d assimilate the new-tech the same way I did the old.

With so many things being different from car-to-car these days, I wonder how many people really get dialed-in with their vehicles. If controls/switches/etc. are in different places, or if doing one thing or another (e.g., the brake-hold example) differs, I don`t see how people are able to attain unconscious competence (yeah, I realize that few ever do anyhow ). Life doesn`t pause for a second while ya remember what to do or look for something.

Most are too busy playing with their phone to drive anyway. No one appreciates good driving, it’s just a chore.

 

[Accumulator]

Agree entirely. And it seems people don`t take driving very seriously considering it`s probably the most dangerous thing most do on a regular basis. Familiarity/contempt and all that.

And people don`t know how to use ABS. Still. The last person to rear-end me (lowslung sedan`s front bumpercover, meet my Tahoe`s trailer hitch) would`ve stopped in plenty of time had she not let up, expensive lesson for her (zero problem for the Tahoe, lucky me..had I been in one of the sedans it would`ve been a disaster).

 

[Bill D]

Boy, you got rear-ended again? I thought the last time that happened you were in the minivan.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

With so many things being different from car-to-car these days, I wonder how many people really get dialed-in with their vehicles. If controls/switches/etc. are in different places, or if doing one thing or another (e.g., the brake-hold example) differs, I don`t see how people are able to attain unconscious competence (yeah, I realize that few ever do anyhow ). Life doesn`t pause for a second while ya remember what to do or look for something.

This is definitely a concern, like that actor that got run over by his Jeep because someone thought it was a good idea to change the standard shift lever layout because they could because it was "drive by wire" and not (mechanically) connected to anything. Waiting for someone to decide they should swap the gas and brake pedals to be "fresh".

Besides what Dan said about the phones, simply the fact that a satellite radio display has so much information on it to read vs. the old days with a just channel number, "who plays this song?" takes your eyes off the road for a much longer amount of time.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

And people don`t know how to use ABS. Still. The last person to rear-end me (lowslung sedan`s front bumpercover, meet my Tahoe`s trailer hitch) would`ve stopped in plenty of time had she not let up, expensive lesson for her (zero problem for the Tahoe, lucky me..had I been in one of the sedans it would`ve been a disaster).

I`m sure this will cheer you up...I`m sure the computer in those "forward collision-avoidance" systems knows how to use the ABS correctly.

 

[Dan]

This is definitely a concern, like that actor that got run over by his Jeep because someone thought it was a good idea to change the standard shift lever layout because they could because it was "drive by wire" and not (mechanically) connected to anything. Waiting for someone to decide they should swap the gas and brake pedals to be "fresh".

Besides what Dan said about the phones, simply the fact that a satellite radio display has so much information on it to read vs. the old days with a just channel number, "who plays this song?" takes your eyes off the road for a much longer amount of time.

Yeah, way too much information spit out at the driver that is irrelevant. And critical stuff like engine temp is buried in a menu somewhere.

 

[Fishroes]

My wife has a 2017 Highlander and the owners manual says nothing about using extended mileage oil
It also has the start stop thing but it does have a button to cut it off
every time the engine is cut off and back on it enables that function again so you have to push the button again but that is not a problem
My house was built in 1999 and it has pex. Knock on wood I’ve never had a leak yet
a guy I worked with, his house was built a few years before mine and he had a bunch of leaks
His must’ve been a different type of pex
Setec, the last statement you made is very true
I worked for a company for 38 years, operating the machines for the first 15 and doing mechanical troubleshooting, replacing parts and adjustments for the last 23 years
You see good operators and bad operators

 

[Coleroad]

Agree entirely. And it seems people don`t take driving very seriously considering it`s probably the most dangerous thing most do on a regular basis. Familiarity/contempt and all that.

And people don`t know how to use ABS. Still. The last person to rear-end me (lowslung sedan`s front bumpercover, meet my Tahoe`s trailer hitch) would`ve stopped in plenty of time had she not let up, expensive lesson for her (zero problem for the Tahoe, lucky me..had I been in one of the sedans it would`ve been a disaster).

the first big mistake was when they pulled drivers education out of the schools. Now there`s second generation of drivers who haven`t been properly educated on driving. I know I sure as heck paid to send my daughter to drivers education, but so many people don`t now. Plus people think that the car should now do everything for them. First came auto headlights. People won`t turn them on manually when it`s foggy, or raining because the car should do it for them. Then backup cameras come along. Oh all I have to do is look at this scary when I back up. When that camera doesn`t cover everything you need to be aware of. The list goes on. Then like was said people just busy with doing whatever instead of driving. I know phones are the biggest one anymore, but there`s always been distractions. I`ve seen crazy things, putting makeup on, shaving, sitting a book in the steering wheel to read, digging through tapes, changing clothes. It`s pure craziness.

When we we bought the Buick you had your choice between the 16`s and 17`s yet. It was a no brainer for to pick the 16. One to go with the other tread, no stop start feature. More important was they move the information screen from the top of the dash to the middle of the console. So now instead of it being closer to a heads up display. You have to look down the center stack. I have for years now put a aftermarket hud in the cars so I can focus more on the road.

 

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, Driving is one more thing that "everybody has a *right* to do" without the attendant responsibility.

Eh, that and "I`m good enough at [whatever] because I say so".

And good on you for adding the HUD so you`re not looking away from the road all the time!