is dawn dish soap bad for your car?

[togwt]

Quote: However, make no mistake, many will insist it is bad for cars. Many prefer to spend more money for the same product in a different bottle, believing it is somehow superior because of a marketing claim telling them so.



Here is a marketing claim by the mfg-âہ“Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your carâ€Â�. Proctor and Gamble



Washing-up liquids should not be used on a regular basis for vehicles bodywork as their concentrated detergent soaps and usually high sodium / alkaline content will emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils naturally found in your paint, and also any oils you have applied in the way of a polish or glaze. Most polymer sealants, synthetic and natural waxes are detergent resistant, so a dishwashing detergent like Dawn will not remove them

JonM

 

[Mochamanz1]

When you strip Waxy material or sealant off your paint, and it is not in very good shape, the appearance might look like damage. Micro marring, scratches, and a bad surface can look dried out and deteriorated from the detergent, when all the detergent did was to expose what is there. I think that is where that myth came from. I should have quoted blkZ28Conv on this one... all I can add is that bad paint conditions are partly hidden by sealants and waxes.... strong soaps remove that "Makeup". It is truly in the prep that the paint is revived and the lack of damage is clealy evident.

 

[togwt]

I've used both independently and together. I find either or truly do remove all product on the finish.



Using isopropyl alcohol can be a little involved and this is the procedure I follow to make sure ( same as inspecting for swirls) I've allowed it to do the work:



Inspecting for swirls using isopropyl alcohol



Note the part where you clean your fingers with alcohol, dry them and run them across the finish. That's how I sense if anything is still on the paint.

:xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs I'd have to agree with BilD and Grumpy on this method of paint prep / inspection. All I would add to it would be the use of an inpection light (see Dark Field Micro Inspection)

JonM

 

[AlexRuiz]

A lot of very good points here as usual by the autopian crowd, I want to summarize:



- It will dry rubber or molding IF used too often. A one time wash or seldom usage will not harm anything

- Similar for paint, it will not harm paint unless it is the only soap used for a long time.



Would I recommend it? Absolutely NO. Get a dedicated paint cleaner. I have found that dishsoap has a hard time removing a strong LSP (sealants or collinite waxes) It will remove some grease or oil, but not a strong wax or sealant.



As you will see, there is conflicting information as some members claim it does nothing to the previous LSP, while others say it will remove everything. So, who is right or who is wrong? Both can be right. It depends on the previous LSP and its overall robustness at the time of the wash with dishsoap. A fresh coat of any product will be stronger than a coat that has been in the paint for a few weeks. Environment condition can also accelerate deterioration of an LSP, so all the factors matter.



If you want to go further, I propose the next experiment.

Apply a little amount of your LSP from the container to a foam applicator. Clean a panel of the car (wash it or quick detail it) Apply the LSP you got in the applicator. Try to use as much as possible of the LSP in order to leave the least amount of product in the foam applicator. Then, dump the applicator in a solution of dishsoap at the concentration you would have used to wash the car. Let it sit for 5 minutes, then take it out and try to find evidence of the product.... Pots results back. You say you have trutle wax platinum ultra gloss and klasse, do it with both. Also, if you can get Collinite 476S, I strongly suggest to do it also. Results with the collinite are kind of revealing





Alex

 

[Soarer V]

- It will dry rubber or molding IF used too often. A one time wash or seldom usage will not harm anything

Similar for paint, it will not harm paint unless it is the only soap used for a long time.

Would I recommend it? Absolutely NO. Get a dedicated paint cleaner.

!! Sir.



There's always going to be:



Poor



1) Good

2) Better

3) BEST



Question is, what are You going to use?:nixweiss

 

[Bill D]

Since I'm inferring many want to conduct a washing step that can remove ANY LSP ALL of the time, under any conditions, I see the need for a very specialized ( and I assume very difficult to produce due to safety among other issues) car wash that can do it.



It seems to me the closest thing on the market currently is the 3 step decontamination system from Finish Kare and Auto Int but I think folks want something less complicated than those that can remove the LSP after one typical washing without having to worry about neutralizing acids, etc.



Maybe something like this will come into being eventually. That might be the time when Dawn will cease to be an interesting option.

 

[foxtrapper]

- It will dry rubber or molding IF used too often.

Never mind those people who have been washing their rubber spatula's and basters in the kitchen sink for years without damage.

- Similar for paint, it will not harm paint unless it is the only soap used for a long time.

Never mind those people who have been washing their painted glasses and trivots in the kitchen sink for years without damage.

Get a dedicated paint cleaner.

Which is chemically identical to Dawn and other dish washing soaps/detergents. A dedicated paint cleaner (whatever that means) must be better, it costs more.

 

[BottleHead]

Never mind those people who have been washing their rubber spatula's and basters in the kitchen sink for years without damage.

And...above all.....nevermind that there is a huge difference between the nylon from which those spatulas, spoons, and so forth, are made, and the polymer synthetic rubber material from which weatherstripping is manufactured.



......BH

 

[foxtrapper]

And...above all.....nevermind that there is a huge difference between the nylon from which those spatulas, spoons, and so forth, are made, and the polymer synthetic rubber material from which weatherstripping is manufactured.

Nice try, but I was very specifically meaning the *rubber* spatulas. Though cars and kitchenware both share similar, and absolutely identical plastics. Polypropylene is the same in both applications, be it GM door trim or a Rubbermaid bowl. The rubber seals on a pressure cooker is the same rubber used by Ford on their doors. The ABS used in kiddie type place settins is the same ABS used in Honda grills. The list goes on and on.



There is nothing distinctive seperating kitchenware plastics (which does include rubbers by definition) from automotive plastics. That's why they can be recycled together.



And that is why Dawn does *not* harm plastics in cars while being kitchenware safe. It's all hoey. It simply lets people justify wasting money on "automotive specific" products. As even the slightest bit of fact checking shows. But, like I said in my first posting, mere facts will never get in the way of the evangelical.

 

[togwt]

Iâ€â„¢m always amazed at the lengths some people will go to defend their position. If you feel the product you are using, no matter what it was originally formulated for or its intended use, if it works and you donâ€â„¢t think it will harm your vehicle, then by all means use it you donâ€â„¢t need anyone elseâ€â„¢s permission or approval.



Bear in mind that your audience on Autopia are perfectionist detailers, trying to persuade them to use household cleaning products on vehicles they spend many, many hours trying to obtain an absolute perfect finish on is a waste of your time

JonM

 

[foxtrapper]

TOGWT,



I understand. Knowledge and facts interfere with the fundy thought process. That's why fundies find them abherent and go to great lengths to avoid them.



Not everyone here suffers from that.



By all means, you are welcome to believe the sodium laurate in an automotive wash is different from the sodium laurate in a shampoo or dish soap. You would be factually wrong, but you are certainly quite welcome to your belief on the subject.



It's the sort of thinking that believes the nicotine in a $100 quart of pesticide is different from the nicotine that can be made by dumping a few cigarettes or a handfull of chew into a quart of water for a buck or two. Ala Jerry Baker. It's the same nicotine, extracted the same way. But, some must insist their "special" product that cost a lot of money absolutely has to be superior. If for no other reason than the bottle says so.



PS, remember to tell the guy who makes Zano's that he isn't a true car care nut. For by your measure, he fails. I'm sure he'll be impressed and immediately change his ways. :xyxthumbs

 

[togwt]

This is the most passionate dissertation on a dishwashing liquid Iâ€â„¢ve ever read.



As I stated earlier â€Ëœâ€Â¦by all means use it you donâ€â„¢t need anyone elseâ€â„¢s permission or approval.â€Â�



I am not challenging your position on this or anyone elseâ€â„¢s, I am just stating my opinion / observations on this subject, no matter what that opinion is, there is often an opposing and often equally valid response.

JonM



Question: What is a " fundy thought process."

 

[AlexRuiz]

Never mind those people who have been washing their rubber spatula's and basters in the kitchen sink for years without damage.





Never mind those people who have been washing their painted glasses and trivots in the kitchen sink for years without damage.





Which is chemically identical to Dawn and other dish washing soaps/detergents. A dedicated paint cleaner (whatever that means) must be better, it costs more.

All those people using dishsoap for dishes do it in the kitchen..... Doors rubber seals DO get dry with dishsoap. The rubber formulas ARE not identical. Automakers are trying to slash every single penny they can, and that cost savings goes also into not requiring a component to withstand a chemical that is not tought to be encountered. Suppliers have to meet cost targets, and between getting a rubber formula that withstands dishsoap better or investing in new tooling guess what they will pick. Dishsoap should dry the skin in your hands as its pH is almost neutral, but if you do wash dishes you know it happens.



TOWGT mentioned it, if you are happy washing your car with dishsoap, go ahead, its your ride.





Alex

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

Alex, I'm not disputing your position and I haven't used Dawn as a wash for many years now, but your arguments here are very weak. First off, have you actually witnessed the drying out of a rubber door-seal firsthand due to the excessive and continuous use of Dawn? Or are you just stating your belief on an issue that a lot of Autopians do not agree on? Because the way you make your case really sounds like you've actually experienced this happening.



2nd of all, why would so much Dawn get on a rubber doorseal in the first place? After washing and drying my car, my doorseals are usually just slightly wet. They are not really exposed to the car shampoo that I use. Rubber trim is obviously a different story, but door seals?



Also, yes automakers do try and slash costs as much as possible, but so does any company that manufactures any kind of rubber. Are you saying spatula manufacturers are not trying to save every penny possible?



If anything, I would think that rubber and plastic trim that is designed to withstand abuse from the elements for many years would easily be able to handle a couple Dawn-washes per year. But I'm just speculating here. I haven't really thought too much about this because like I said earlier, I haven't been in a situation that required the use of a Dawn wash for quite some time now.

 

[5918mike]

I don't use dawn anymore but I had an '88 S-10 bought new and washed with dawn exclusively every week to 2 weeks for 6 years. The only other treatment that was done was wax, usually turtle wax paste. The paint, trim, plastic was fine, so how long does washing with dawn take to mess things up? Does anybody have actual results or is it all speculation.

 

[AlexRuiz]

Alex, I'm not disputing your position and I haven't used Dawn as a wash for many years now, but your arguments here are very weak. First off, have you actually witnessed the drying out of a rubber door-seal firsthand due to the excessive and continuous use of Dawn? Or are you just stating your belief on an issue that a lot of Autopians do not agree on? Because the way you make your case really sounds like you've actually experienced this happening.



2nd of all, why would so much Dawn get on a rubber doorseal in the first place? After washing and drying my car, my doorseals are usually just slightly wet. They are not really exposed to the car shampoo that I use. Rubber trim is obviously a different story, but door seals?



Also, yes automakers do try and slash costs as much as possible, but so does any company that manufactures any kind of rubber. Are you saying spatula manufacturers are not trying to save every penny possible?



If anything, I would think that rubber and plastic trim that is designed to withstand abuse from the elements for many years would easily be able to handle a couple Dawn-washes per year. But I'm just speculating here. I haven't really thought too much about this because like I said earlier, I haven't been in a situation that required the use of a Dawn wash for quite some time now.

You have a lot of very valid points:



- I have witnessed the drying of rubber seals in someones else car (1991 VW old beetle). Granted, the vehicle design is over 60 years old, and you could argue that the formula / tooling have not changed, so maybe the old ruber formula wasn't that good; however, it shows that at least at some point in time with specific combinations it affected. I also have to point that maybe our dishsoap formulas are harshers because of the lack of widespread dishwashers here. This person used "axion" and "salvo" (P&G and colgate-palmolive products) powder to wash the cars, and common sense wasn't too used. Also, as a factor the old beetle design allows some water to puddle in the upper door joints with the roof, so if you didn't rinse well you had soap staying in a little puddle touching the seal. Again, many other factors could have been involved, so maybe I am jumping the gun here.



I agree, if you dry your seals you should have no problem. Again, I think the overall car design had influence.



Few industries are as demanding as the auto industry. The big OEMs (sadly, the based in SE Michigan mainly) have this way to do business that they just inform the supplier that they need to reduce the price for the parts with a 90 days notice. Not nice. If a supplier can get a rubber that meets the elasticity and mechanicl vibration cycles but is not as tolerant to detergent they will use it. As background, I am in the autoindustry but my expertise is not trim, so maybe I am ignoring requirements that in fact ask for detergent resistance. It is assumed that the majority of users will ake theirs cars to the carwash.



My main complaint about dishsoap is not the effects in the vehicle parts, but rather its hyped ability to strip a previous LSP. However, after joining autopia I remember this car with the door seals and the facts and myths abiout dishsoap clicked perfectly to give a compelling case.





Alex

 

[Glossequation]

Using Dawn about once per year will do nothing to harm your car.