Is clay the best thing to clean the paint?

[lbls1]

I could not have said that better. It isn't always the shine or the beading. The real proof is the resolution. Wax, when properly applied lasts a very long time (despite what a lot of people believe). The by products that promotes shine and beading will in time wear off, but the wax residue itself must be removed.



I once did a test on one of my older cars by removing years of wax build up on its neglected paint. I was quite amazed to see underneath its dull texture vibrant and shiny paint, like I never saw from it before.



That is also another reason why you don't necessarily need a lot of wax for basic protection. Of course I break my own rules, but dilligent washing and a good amount of wax is more than enough.

 

[Accumulator]

I hate to buck the trend but water beading is not always an inidication of a sealant or wax. I've seen freshly waxes surfaces not bead water and I've also see surfaces with all the wax removed bead water quite nicely. None the less it is an indicator but the paint surface play a huge roll with surface tension.

Very true, just look at how a freshly painted/polished finish will bead water! You can't go by any one indicator when checking for LSP protection.



lbls1- You're sure right about the "wax build up". I mentioned something very similar on an older post, where I stripped accumulated (Malm's liquid- heh heh, it *did* "layer") wax off my XJS. As in your case, it uncovered nice looking paint that had been protected just fine.

 

[imported_YouGottaBeLeaf]

Now I'm confused, I thought clay removed the LSPs like wax and sealants. What do you use to strip everything off when you get right down to the clearcoat and start polishing again (when you have sealants topped with carnubas)?

 

[Dennis H.]

Yes it can be confusing.



For removing coatings use a wax and grease remover like prepsol. It will insure removal. Use one towel for application and one for drying. Wipe on and wipe off while wet.

 

[lpquick]

Dennis H., what waxes have you seen that don't bead water?

I guess the best insurance is not to clay your vehicle until your ready to polish and wax it again. Too bad there isn't a litmis type test we could apply to check if any wax or sealant is still working (present). First one to figure this one wins the lottery. Another problem is figuring out just the right amount, and how long to apply it by machine before it's over done. I'm sure some of this knowledge comes with experience but it sure would be great to have a sure fire way to know!

 

[Dennis H.]

Lpquick,

I've had surfaces where it didn't matter what wax was used that did not bead water. So I guess, to answer the question, all of them. I've seen it happen on surfaces that are old/dead or over buffed where the paint has been opened up too much or the clear coat compromised. It is also very easy to buff a surface smooth and have water bead with absolutely no wax. Prep is everything.

 

[togwt]

~One mans opinion~



I don't have a problem with the fact that products can be layered, up to a point (in my case 3 maybe 4 'layers' then I don't see any further benefit, but I don't think I'd liken it to paint build)



As for a natural wax products that lasts over time (with a vehicle that seea rain, roar dirt, suns heat, and etc) I have my doubts

 

[Accumulator]

Lpquick- You could always try LSPs that have a real "tactile" element to them. While, as we've been saying, there're no guarantees with this stuff, some products leave a definite "feel"; you touch the paint and know if they're still there (this is imperfect, of course; they're probably there after you can't feel them anymore too).



Two examples that I'm familiar with: KSG and 4-Star UPP. Several layers of KSG make a surface feel "plasticy". Each new layer increases this feel. You can then tell when this plasticy feeling goes away. Some synthetics such as 4-Star UPP leave a surface *very* slick, much more so than before the UPP application. And then you can easily tell when the slickness starts to go away. Again, that doesn't mean the LSP isn't there, but when it *does* still feel slick/plasticy, you can safely assume the UPP/SG *is* still there (OK, just IMO ).



And as to how much product you need to apply, the short answer is "a lot less than you'd ever imagine". I put KSG on so thin you can't see it on the paint before you buff it off.



And what Dennis H said about PrepSol (and equivalent products). These almost always work like a charm, and when they don't, at least they don't cause any damage. Rubbing alcohol usually works fine too, but I always keep the "proper" solvents around.

 

[BillNorth]

I always guage durability by comparing how a product responds freshly applied, to how it responds a week, a month, etc down the road. For example, if water beaded after a week, and then started to cling after a month, then it's safe to assume the protectant is not what it was.



As for claying removing LSP's, I have no practical experience with this. I only clay 2x a year before each of my big details. Though I may try the weekly spot thing to see how I like it. I find that IFO seems to settle pretty evenly on the surface though, so if I clay one section, then I know I'll end up doing the whole thing. I find running my hands over freshly clayed surfaces to be addictive.



In theory, I would imagine that it does remove a bit of the lsp. Maybe not enough to make an impact, but I'd imagine some. IMHO, the only way to remove an lsp would be by using a paint cleaner, or something like ipa or prepsol, etc.



Bill.