Is beading an indicator of wax?

[III]

I think we would agree that beading is not an indicator of wax on a vehicle correct? For example, how can a new vehicle that has never been waxed bead water?



Also, It's been a while since I've used this product, so I don't know if the formula is the same, but megs gold class wax is made to sheet water vs bead.

 

[imported_truzoom]

I think beading can be an indicator, but it should not be the only one. I CAN say that I've seen cars in horrible condition and they appear to "soak" water where water will simply cling to random areas of panels and no beading occurs anywhere.



You can also consider that a car that is simply polished or glazed will also bead, so if you re-wax the car when it loses its bead, you may or may not be doing extra work.



Personally I go more by how fast the beads move while I'm traveling at around 45-50mph, which is when the beads begin to move on my vehicle, although the presence of dirt can also affect it.



Are you using the reformulated GC that comes in the metal tins?

 

[III]

Are you using the reformulated GC that comes in the metal tins?

No. I used the paste version, but this was about 2 years ago. I re-call Mike Phillips even saying that it was formulated to sheet water rather than bead. I'm just using this as an example of why it might not be proper

to use beading as an example for wax on a vehicle.

 

[Mike-in-Orange]

Beading of a fluid on a solid surface is primarily a function of the surface tension of the two materials (unit of measure is the dyne, by the way).



Back when I was in the printing ink industry and we were starting to move from solvent based flexograhic inks to water based, due to environmental requirements, we had difficulties getting adhesion on non porous substrates like mylar and plastics. We used various wetting agents, and even corona discharge (an electrical discharge in close proximity of the surface of a plastic sheet) to alter the dyne level and allow the water based inks to wet (or sheet) the surface. Print looks bad when the ink beads up, water on a car looks good that way.



Sorry if this comes across as a threadjack, but I thought it might shed some light on the beading/sheeting issue.

 

[III]

Beading of a fluid on a solid surface is primarily a function of the surface tension of the two materials (unit of measure is the dyne, by the way)

I'm not sure I follow. Surface tension of what two materials? The wax and the paint?

I'm still curious as to why new vehicles bead water when nothing is on the surface.

 

[White95Max]

The surface tension of the paint vs the water I'd guess.



I clayed part of my car the other day, and it was beading pretty well after that, so obviously a finish doesn't have to be waxed to bead water. Wax just increases the surface tension.

When I bought my car last week, I washed it and saw the entire car covered in one sheet of water...not ONE bead on the whole car! So to me that says that there's oxidized paint that is soaking up the water.

 

[a.k.a. Patrick]

John, I used some QS on my pickup about 2 weeks ago. Now I havent detailed my truck since winter (With UPP, I know, shame on me for waiting so long!). So yesterday, I see some MW in the toolbox in the bed of my truck, so I fig'd what the heck. I give it a quick and thorough wash, and to my surprise, it beaded very well. Was it the UPP from 8 months ago ? I doubt it (Unless someone has had similiar experiences), I would have to say it was the QS from a couple weeks ago. And we know QS doesnt contain wax or silicones.....Its all about surface tension, that little edge on the bubble!

So what causes surface tension ?

 

[rollman]

So what causes surface tension ?

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Surface-tension



In physics, surface tension is an effect within the surface layer of a liquid that causes the layer to behave as an elastic sheet. It is the effect that allows insects (such as the water strider) to walk on water, and causes capillary action, for example. Surface tension is caused by the attraction between the molecules of the liquid, due to various intermolecular forces. In the bulk of the liquid each molecule is pulled equally in all directions by neighbouring liquid molecules, resulting in a net force of zero. At the surface of the liquid, the molecules are pulled inwards by other molecules deeper inside the liquid, but there are no liquid molecules on the outside to balance these forces, so the surface molecules are subject to an inward force of molecular attraction which is balanced by the resistance of the liquid to compression. There may also be a small outward attraction caused by air molecules, but as air is much less dense than the liquid, this force is negligible. Surface tension is measured in newtons per meter is represented by the symbol σ or γ or T and is defined as the force along a line of unit length perpendicular to the surface or work done per unit area. Dimensional analysis shows that the units of surface tension are equivalent to joules per square metre (J·m-2). This means that surface tension can also be considered as surface energy. If a surface with surface tension σ is expanded by a unit area, then the increase in the surface's stored energy is also equal to σ. A related quantity is the energy of cohesion, which is the energy released when two bodies of the same liquid become joined by a boundary of unit area. Since this process involves the removal of a unit area of surface from each of the two bodies of liquid, the energy of cohesion is equal to twice the surface energy. A similar concept, the energy of adhesion, applies to two bodies of different liquids.









The size of the beads is my indictor of a wax /sealant persents. Did you ever notice how small the beads are on a freshly protected car , very small and tight beads of water. While on cars with nothing protecting them or perhaps the protectng products are older the beads get bigger and aren't as tight almost to point of sheeting . JMO on the beading thing

 

[Mike-in-Orange]

I'm not sure I follow. Surface tension of what two materials? The wax and the paint?

I'm still curious as to why new vehicles bead water when nothing is on the surface.

No, the surface tension of the vehicle surface and the water. Apply wax will, among other more obvious things, alter the surface tension of the vehicle surface allowing the water to bead.



I wonder if a brand new vehicle will bead water simply because it hasn't had as much long term exposure to the elements, which could also alter the surface tension of the paint. Someone smarter than I will have to give a definitive answer on this one!

 

[Way2SSlow]

I dont know if beading should be THE indicator, but I use it as my indicator of when I should wax again. When beading starts really falling off, I either spray on some Optimum or rewax with whichever sealant or carnauba I feel like using at the time.

 

[bluemoon]

It seems to me that the squeek test that Meguiars recommends is the most practicle way of determining the presents of a wax/sealant. After you wash, clay and use a paint cleaner, wiping a clean dry towel over the paint, you can hear a squeeking noise (at least I can evertime I do this). After applying a coat of wax/sealant on the paint, taking a clean dry towel and wiping the paint, the squeek goes away. It just seems to me that when, after washing your vehicle, you take a clean dry towel and wipe the paint, no squeek means wax/sealant is present, a squeek means it is no longer present. Not sure if this is the best way, but seems to make sense to me.

 

[a.k.a. Patrick]

The size of the beads is my indictor of a wax /sealant persents. Did you ever notice how small the beads are on a freshly protected car , very small and tight beads of water. While on cars with nothing protecting them or perhaps the protectng products are older the beads get bigger and aren't as tight almost to point of sheeting . JMO on the beading thing

Roll, Im going to shoot that theory in the butt..............This is freshly waxed.....(Sealed rather, with UPP, about 2 weeks prior) A little of both i guess?

 

[JeffM]

I think if you are familiar with when you applied the last wax or sealant, and if it is still beading, then it would be safe to assume that there is still protection there.



If you are unfamiar with a vehicle and the water is clinging to the paint, i would assume it to have none or very little protection.



With products that sheet, it is still easy to see the nice clean sheeting action taking place, its alot different than the clinging sheeting drip dry grabby MF surface of a bare paint.



When in doubt, wax i guess

 

[III]

No, the surface tension of the vehicle surface and the water. Apply wax will, among other more obvious things, alter the surface tension of the vehicle surface allowing the water to bead.

Ah.... That makes sense. So, the moral of the story is, if there's surface tension on a vehicle the water will bead regardless of if there's any wax on it? This would back up what Patrick said about using QS and what White95Max said about using clay.

 

[White95Max]

Yes. The beading is caused by surface tension regardless of what is causing it.

 

[rollman]

Roll, Im going to shoot that theory in the butt..............This is freshly waxed.....(Sealed rather, with UPP, about 2 weeks prior) A little of both i guess?

Next time you have a light rain watch how the drops react when they hit a fresh wax job , then take notice to the drops as the weeks pass. The amount of water / rain hitting the surface depends on how it will react also . I'm still stickin to my theory

 

[RCBuddha]

I always go by how much the water "clings" to my paint. Freshly waxed vehicles never have water "stick" it simply runs off (especially when use the leaf blower). I don't think it matters whether you get large beads or small beads (I got the same results as patrick did with UPP), it's all about how the water reacts for me.

 

[III]

Yes. The beading is caused by surface tension regardless of what is causing it.

Very well, I'm learning something. How about we take this one step further now? Why do some vehicles have surface tension while others don't? Is it mainly because of oxidation like you said earlier or are there other factors?

 

[harvey]

Consumers report said the same thing about beading as Rollman. You need to think about using UPP.

 

[a.k.a. Patrick]

Next time you have a light rain watch how the drops react when they hit a fresh wax job , then take notice to the drops as the weeks pass. The amount of water / rain hitting the surface depends on how it will react also . I'm still stickin to my theory

Roll, the larger beads in my prior pic are a result of smaller beads conglomerating. This pic was the next day, and after a brief shower had passed.....Small drops, small beads....

Good thread John !!