Iron X, safe for all surfaces?

RedlineIRL said:
Accumulator, how do you use the ValuGard Product B as far as getting off bonded rail dust? Do you just pour it undilluted in a spray bottle, dwell, and rinse?
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-AND-



Ron Ketcham said:
Go to ValuGard.net and click on the training video for decontamination. It will show you exactly how to use the system. They do over emphasis regarding the B product on some trim, but that is part of making it idiot proof.
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Yeah, check out their video.



I put the "B" in a squeeze bottle and then use that and a cotton chenille mitt to wipe it on the panels. Let it dwell (I let it dwell a bit longer than recommended), try your best to keep it from drying (not all that hard).



I often agitate problem areas with either clay or the ValuGard Bug pad and reapply more "B".



Then rinse it off and inspect. Either repeat or wash/neutralize with "C" or your shampoo of choice (I usually do that wash with a MF mitt; things are really clean by that point so marring from dirt/etc. isn't an issue).
 
Since I have it, I am just going to to give the Iron X a try. The only area I have concerns on, but yet needs decontaminating the most, is the trunk and rear area. There is chrome plastic trim and emblems spanning it, and I don't want to take the chance of screwing them up. I have heard some say Iron X is safe for chrome, and others say not to let it come in contact with it. So what the actual facts of this product when using it around metal chrome plastic and plastic chrome trim?



The vertical section of my trunk is not made of metal, but a polymer plastic. Have any of you all seen any problems using Iron X on painted plastics?





TOGWT said:
IronX is a neutralised acid salt that offer a safe pH: Neutral 6.5-7.0. Automotive paint is porous, by using an acid salt solution on the paint surface the micro-fissures (‘pores’) are expanded by an exothermic reaction. This releases ferrous particles and caustic compounds that have developed in the paint's subsurface; the exothermic reaction agitates and loosens the particles allowing them to be rinsed away.
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By expanding the pores of the finish with a chemical solution, do you think that this reaction weakens the paint finish?
 
The times I've used Iron-X I didn't have much luck with it. I remember using it on a white Q-Porte that was garage kept and in excellent condition and ended up giving it 3 applications before giving up. After dwelling/hand scrubbing it (after reclaying), it still kept bleeding on various test spots. Nothing more dissappointing after you promote this product to your client and it keeps needing more treatments. I'll just stick with ABC for now.
 
I used it in my beater as a test bed. Car gets washed once every few months and is outside all the time unless I'm at the mall. First application removed everything as the second application had zero bleeding. There was significant bleeding from behind all of the trim and moldings. There was little to remove with clay after.
 
Ron Ketcham- If the client was standing there watching, that'd be pretty bad..."gee, can't seem to get it all sorted out..." and all that.



SpoiledMan said:
I used it in my beater as a test bed...the second application had zero bleeding..
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Hey, that's interesting...some people keep getting *some* degree of bleeding even with subsequent applications (as per Ron's experience) and I had wondered if it ever really "stays clear" or not.
 
I'd like to do a full contamination & paint correction and try spraying down the surface after just to see if there's any bleeding.
 
What is "bleeding"? Per the post.

As you and other's are referring to?

Is it on a non clear/single stage paint?

Give me more information.

Big difference between what happens on a single stage vs a two stage paint system.

Grumpy
 
Ron Ketcham said:
What is "bleeding"? Per the post.

As you and other's are referring to?

Is it on a non clear/single stage paint?

Give me more information.

Big difference between what happens on a single stage vs a two stage paint system.

Grumpy
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Bleeding:



Bloodbath_1.jpg




Bloodbath_2.jpg




'02 VW Jetta, OEM BC/CC, car built in Mexico and I believe the base was waterborne.



My understanding is basically that the color change is a chemical reaction between the "neutralized acid salt" (that's what they call it) in the IronX and the (anionic? More marketing speak I don't know if I'm recalling correctly) ferrous particles embedded in the paint.



In this case here was the before/after:



Before.jpg




After2.jpg
 
Now I got it, not a thing that the ABC does.

What is being seen is the reaction of the large amounts of oxalic acids with some sort of inhibitor that reacts to air.

I think of "bleeding" when the ABC is used on a non clear, such as a highly oxidized red, blue, etc and the ABC removes the "dead" (for lack of a better descriptive word) paint, which is often referred to as "oxidation".

That is a portion of the single stage paint system which the exposure to UV rays, etc have broken down the resin system that holds the color, etc together.

In the old days of single stage paints, one got out the red compound, a rotary and a 4 ply wool yarn pad and hammered the "dead/oxidized" portion of the top surfaces to get down to the "firm/dense" portion of the paint.

In most cases, the ABC, when used correctly on these single stage oxidized paints, the users will observe the 'color" running off the vehicle and go into shock.(bleeding)

Works great on boat and RV gel coats as well.

All it is doing is removing the same dead/oxidized paint that one would normally spend a couple of hours of hammering with a rotary.

The ABC will not remove all of the dead paint, but most of it and reduce the buffer time by a large percentage.

Grumpy
 
RedlineIRL said:
By expanding the pores of the finish with a chemical solution, do you think that this reaction weakens the paint finish?
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The urethane used for automobile paint is classified as a semi-solid , micro structured permeable membrane, due to its micro-fissures, or pores’, being a thermosetting polymer it remains flexible, whilst retaining its tensile strength, to enable it to expand and contract to follow temperature fluctuations (elongation).
 
Since there is some talk of discoloration, is this only a problem if it is used on single stage finishes? If that's the case, no problem there. I will be using it on a red and black car though
 
May have to get some of this ABC since Grumpy and Accumulator recommended it. Too bad it doesn't come in smaller sizes. Do you need to get the whole system or just the first two? Sorry if it's answered in the training videos, they don't work on my computer.
 
Just like any "documented this is how it is, due to a decade of more of use", yes, only the "system".

If one wishes to take a short cut, to cut down a "cost" factor to gain a safe and proven system, the ABC is NOT the way for one to go down.

Either accept these proven, for years, do as the video shows, do as it shows, follow this process, facts, proven and used by the vehicle manufacturer's or do another way, at your own risk in doing so.

Not my words, but the words of the engineering groups who test and approve such systems.

The proof is there, documented, vs, what some brands may claim to be OK.



Grumpy
 
cptzippy said:
May have to get some of this ABC since Grumpy and Accumulator recommended it. Too bad it doesn't come in smaller sizes. Do you need to get the whole system or just the first two? Sorry if it's answered in the training videos, they don't work on my computer.
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I'd look at it this way: you can buy part A and part B by themselves, with a total cost of $64.22 pre-shipping, or you can buy the whole system (ABC, wash pads, applicator bottle) for $55.50 pre-shipping.



To me that's a no-brainer... you get all that extra stuff AND you save money. Win-win!



A B C Neutralization System
 
While I'm not a fan of "C" (just another mediocre shampoo IMO), the pricing does make it a no-brainer. Eh, I use "C" in a strong mix for wheels/wells/etc.



But if you can get the right price, I've used "A" and "B" with my preferred shampoos for the final step and it worked fine.



I use "A" by itself too, followed by a regular shampoo or even with just a lot of rinsing. [Insert caveat about trying this on stuff that might be sensitive to highly alkaline products] This skips the "acid neutralizing the base" that "B" provides, but it's never caused any problems for me.



Then there's the FinishKare stuff....their FK1119, somewhat along the lines of "A", can be a good super-shampoo.
 
I decided to try out the Iron X on my daily driver for testing purposes. This has got to be the worst smelling stuff in a bottle ever made, it makes garbage on a hot day smell like a boquet of roses. On this car it has probably never seen a detail in its life prior, but yet it didn't bleed as much as I thought it was going to. I was expecting tons of iron runoff like the pics C Charles posted. I only let it go for 5 minutes, then washed and repeated with a second apllication. Should I have drenched the pannels with Iron X?



The only things that I really noticed it that its a pain to completely rinse Iron X from the trunk lid channels. This stuff keeps running down and bleeding. I know that the bottle say not to let it dry under sun, but what will it do if it runs off and dries? My trunk always seems to hold some water in the drain channels and always seems to run off down the back after I dry the car off. I am just kind of concerned if the water still has Iron X in it and runs off and happens to dry on
 
RedlineIRl- Heh heh, run out and buy an air compressor to blow out retained water ;)



The IronX is an acid, right? How about washing the vehicle with something alkaline like an APC. I sure wouldn't want the IronX to dry on the paint, but that's just me.
 
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