dschribs
Active member
Should I do an IPA wipedown after 105/205?? I don't think the have any fillers so I wasn't sure if it was necessary.
And it's just 50/50 water & alcohol correct?
And it's just 50/50 water & alcohol correct?
IPA Wipedown with 105/205?
- Thread starter dschribs
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imported_Picus
New member
105 and 205 are pretty good in terms of not hiding defects, but like any product they can fill. Isa helps, but I like to leave the car in the sun for a few minutes to let the oils evaporate so I'm sure they're not filling. 50/50 is what I use, fwiw
Accumulator
Well-known member
I discussed this at length with Mike Phillips recently, and I can see both sides to the IPA/not. I hope Mike chimes in on this thread as I think he and I saw each other's various viewpoints and just agreed that some people have different criteria than other people (and that many of those criteria are goofy in a real-world sense). Long-winded $0.02 follows:
IMO M105 doesn't do all *that* much filling in actual use because in most cases I'd expect it's being used to eliminate some fairly significant marring; you see a RIDS and you do the panel with the intention of fixing that. By the time you minimize/eliminate the RIDS, anything minor enough to be filled in will have been corrected also, just because M105 has a fair degree of cut. M105 doesn't leave light marring intact very often and it's gonna be followed by a milder product anyhow (or at least it should be IMO).
IPA wiping M105 and then inspecting with, say, a SunGun in a dark environment will often show pseudo-hologram-style micromarring (after all, the stuff *is* a compound), but that's from the *abrasives* and has nothing to do with any oils.
OTOH, yeah, I sometimes IPA wipe after M105 just to make sure about any concealing but I readily admit this is just me and is probably pointless. It's never uncovered anything that I can remember (and I bet I would
). I didn't bother doing it the last time I used M105 and there were no surprises later.
M205 *does*, IME, leave a *LOT* of oils behind, and some paints really soak them up. In those cases, IPA wiping can be quite a chore; one or two tries often won't get everything clean. The AIOs I tried (KAIO, ZAIO, and SRP) didn't clean these oils off either. I plan to use TOL's Prep Wash next time, preliminary experiments seemed to indicate that it'll work OK (but note all my disclaimers there...too soon to say for certain).
When I did my Yukon I did IPA it until they were gone (under all inspection conditions) but that was just me on that vehicle.
BUT...do we need to care? For normal people I believe the answer is usually "no".
When I did my pal's Jag showcar, I used M205 for the final polishing and I did *NOT* IPA it. I went over the car with Autoglym SRP (which can also do some concealing) but I'm 100% satisfied that any residual marring was inconsequential *if* it did exist. And it's been a few months now, and there's zero sign of anything "coming back". He'll remar it (with a wash or a dusting or something) and that will be far more severe than anything that might've been concealed. It looked fine in the sun and I just didn't see any need to IPA it.
These oils generally only show up under *VERY* demanding inspection/lighting conditions (e.g., SunGun in a dark environment). If you can't see them in the real world, then there might not be any point in worrying about them unless you go around inspecting the vehicle with a SunGun the way I sometimes do.
Yeah, *maybe* they're doing some concealing. And *maybe* that will make something "come back". But maybe *not* too. And unless the vehicle will be staying perfect for at least several months I'd argue that it doesn't really matter anyhow. If you polish every year anyhow, then why care about something like this? Unless you inspect your car under conditions where such stuff shows (uhmm...like I do
) then why care? If your LSP bonds fine, then why care? Why go looking for trouble?
*IF* there's a sealant bonding concern, then yeah, I can understand wanting to clean off these oils. And if you're like me, I can think of some other reasons to do it too. But for most people I really do think this is a case of looking for trouble where you could just as easily not.
IMO M105 doesn't do all *that* much filling in actual use because in most cases I'd expect it's being used to eliminate some fairly significant marring; you see a RIDS and you do the panel with the intention of fixing that. By the time you minimize/eliminate the RIDS, anything minor enough to be filled in will have been corrected also, just because M105 has a fair degree of cut. M105 doesn't leave light marring intact very often and it's gonna be followed by a milder product anyhow (or at least it should be IMO).
IPA wiping M105 and then inspecting with, say, a SunGun in a dark environment will often show pseudo-hologram-style micromarring (after all, the stuff *is* a compound), but that's from the *abrasives* and has nothing to do with any oils.
OTOH, yeah, I sometimes IPA wipe after M105 just to make sure about any concealing but I readily admit this is just me and is probably pointless. It's never uncovered anything that I can remember (and I bet I would
). I didn't bother doing it the last time I used M105 and there were no surprises later.M205 *does*, IME, leave a *LOT* of oils behind, and some paints really soak them up. In those cases, IPA wiping can be quite a chore; one or two tries often won't get everything clean. The AIOs I tried (KAIO, ZAIO, and SRP) didn't clean these oils off either. I plan to use TOL's Prep Wash next time, preliminary experiments seemed to indicate that it'll work OK (but note all my disclaimers there...too soon to say for certain).
When I did my Yukon I did IPA it until they were gone (under all inspection conditions) but that was just me on that vehicle.
BUT...do we need to care? For normal people I believe the answer is usually "no".
When I did my pal's Jag showcar, I used M205 for the final polishing and I did *NOT* IPA it. I went over the car with Autoglym SRP (which can also do some concealing) but I'm 100% satisfied that any residual marring was inconsequential *if* it did exist. And it's been a few months now, and there's zero sign of anything "coming back". He'll remar it (with a wash or a dusting or something) and that will be far more severe than anything that might've been concealed. It looked fine in the sun and I just didn't see any need to IPA it.
These oils generally only show up under *VERY* demanding inspection/lighting conditions (e.g., SunGun in a dark environment). If you can't see them in the real world, then there might not be any point in worrying about them unless you go around inspecting the vehicle with a SunGun the way I sometimes do.
Yeah, *maybe* they're doing some concealing. And *maybe* that will make something "come back". But maybe *not* too. And unless the vehicle will be staying perfect for at least several months I'd argue that it doesn't really matter anyhow. If you polish every year anyhow, then why care about something like this? Unless you inspect your car under conditions where such stuff shows (uhmm...like I do
) then why care? If your LSP bonds fine, then why care? Why go looking for trouble?*IF* there's a sealant bonding concern, then yeah, I can understand wanting to clean off these oils. And if you're like me, I can think of some other reasons to do it too. But for most people I really do think this is a case of looking for trouble where you could just as easily not.
My $.02:
I ALWAYS do 2-3 wipe downs with glass cleaner on my TEST spot only. I never do a wipe down on the entire car before going LSP.
As long as I can get the test spot to finish out how I want then I know the rest of the car will be the same. Larger RIDS won't be concealed by oils in 105 or 205 and they are generally easy to see while you are polishing so revealing those through ISP wipe downs isn't real high on my priority list either.
As far as LSP bonding goes that doesn't worry me either. I did a pre LSP wipe down on part of my GF's car and went right from M205 to NXT on the rest of the car. It has been 4 months and while the NXT is starting to wear, it was no different on the hood (where I did the ISP wipe down) than on the rest of the car.
Lastly, the oils left behind DO make the paint look better. And at the end of the day that is my final goal.
I ALWAYS do 2-3 wipe downs with glass cleaner on my TEST spot only. I never do a wipe down on the entire car before going LSP.
As long as I can get the test spot to finish out how I want then I know the rest of the car will be the same. Larger RIDS won't be concealed by oils in 105 or 205 and they are generally easy to see while you are polishing so revealing those through ISP wipe downs isn't real high on my priority list either.
As far as LSP bonding goes that doesn't worry me either. I did a pre LSP wipe down on part of my GF's car and went right from M205 to NXT on the rest of the car. It has been 4 months and while the NXT is starting to wear, it was no different on the hood (where I did the ISP wipe down) than on the rest of the car.
Lastly, the oils left behind DO make the paint look better. And at the end of the day that is my final goal.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Jason M said:
Can't argue with that, good to know exactly what the test spot can tell you :xyxthumbs
IME sometimes the oils help and other times they don't. Often depends on just how far you're going with this stuff.
With a number of finishing polishes, when you get things *just right* the oils don't really make any diff. Yeah, I know, sounds nutty, but (on over-the-top jobs) I often judge my final polishing that way- when wiping off the oils makes *zero* diff then I've reached my goal. I've learned this in part from *having* to remove the oils for certain sealants to bond (and I don't want anybody thinking I'm saying you always need to do such stuff).
When I IPA wiped the Yukon after M205, the lack of oils did *not* hurt the look any, and those oils bugged me...looked awful under the SunGun. Any normal person woulda/coulda/shoulda left 'em on there.
SOrry, this is getting into that "oh sheesh...only at Autopia"
stuff where I could also argue that M205 doesn't always finish out nicely enough anyhow and discussions like that sound goofy to me even when I'm participating in them!dickwitham
New member
pardon my thread jacking, and my ignorance...can/should an IPA wipe-down be done to assist in removing the product? (i.e. spraying the 50/50 alcohol and water on top of the product to help remove it)
Accumulator
Well-known member
dickwitham said:
No, better to use a "clean" QD such as Meguiar's #34 for that; better cleaning and (especially) more lubricity. I generally use #34 for all my compound residue removal and also for milder product residue if/when I over-work it.
Picus said:
Same here. Nothing like parking a black car in the sun on a 100 degree day to flash off any oils that could be hiding anything. With #105, it might look perfect at first, but after a few minutes I can usually see some faint holograms-which is to be expected from a compound with that much cut. After using #205, I can leave it in the sun an hour and it looks the same as when I first pulled it out.
Occasionally I'll do a test IPA wipedown in a small area or two just to be sure. Otherwise, I just let the sun bake out the oils. I don't use any LSPs that are particularly sensitive to what they are used over so I don't see a point in doing a full IPA wipedown.
imported_Picus
New member
I don't mind holograms with 105; that's par for the course, it's a heavy cut. What I do mind is when it fills in sanding marring, or RIDs, which it *can* do. You'll think you're good and move on to your second step, then have to go back to 105 because after 15 minutes you see some remaining tracers/sanding marks. Now I am not saying this is common - any compound can do the same thing, it's just important to know where you're at with regard to correction at all times, imo.
So ya, if I am doing say, heavy correction on a hood and am using 105, I'll do it then just let the car roast for 5 min in the sun, that's all it needs. If I see something unexpected I fix it, if not, rock on.
So ya, if I am doing say, heavy correction on a hood and am using 105, I'll do it then just let the car roast for 5 min in the sun, that's all it needs. If I see something unexpected I fix it, if not, rock on.
Accumulator
Well-known member
There're enough differing experiences that it sounds like the IPA wipe is worth doing even with the M105 :think:
And, eh...I envy those of you who can pull vehicles out in the sun. If I do that I get contamination from all the trees/etc.
When you *can't* let the sun cook off the oils it can be a big PIA to get 'em off; just letting the car sit for a week (in a climate-controlled environment) sure doesn't get rid of the M205 oils, at least not on some paints.
And, eh...I envy those of you who can pull vehicles out in the sun. If I do that I get contamination from all the trees/etc.
When you *can't* let the sun cook off the oils it can be a big PIA to get 'em off; just letting the car sit for a week (in a climate-controlled environment) sure doesn't get rid of the M205 oils, at least not on some paints.imported_Picus
New member
Ya, the sun thing isn't always an option, especially with all the rain we've been getting. That's where ipa/water and prep wash come into play!
PresdntialDtail
New member
Accumulator said:
Picus said:
I am going to have to look into both of these products! Learn something new everyday!
PresdntialDtail
New member
Oh, and btw I have not found any differences between doing an IPA and not with M105 or 205 as well, although M205 can be a little greasy sometimes.
wannafbody
wannafbody
I know that with Ultimate Compound that it has some type of waxy base to it. An IPA wipedown is always the safest route.
imported_Picus
New member
PresdntialDtail said:I am going to have to look into both of these products! Learn something new everyday!
Hi Temp Prep wash is probably on my top 5 list of favorite products.
PresdntialDtail
New member
Picus said:Hi Temp Prep wash is probably on my top 5 list of favorite products.
Ill have to order some next time Im shopping. Thanks for the tip!
SuperBee364
New member
Picus said:Hi Temp Prep wash is probably on my top 5 list of favorite products.
Same here, Picus. Ever since NSXtasy recommended it to me, I've been positively a-glow. It is amazing stuff. Just wish it didn't smell so nasty.
Every product I've used from Hi-Temp has been good and very reasonably priced.
Prep Wash, however, is exceptional.
Washing a car with Prep Wash after polishing will pretty much guarantee that there isn't *any* polishing oils, fillers, (or *anything* for that matter) left on your paint. Just do your final inspection, then finish up with your glaze/lsp.
PresdntialDtail
New member
SuperBee364 said:
Im definitely going to have to order some!
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
PresdntialDtail said:
Me too. :heelclick